feeding day in the reptile room.

[P. Novak]

Who here kills cows with their bare hands and rocks like the Neandrathaws used to?

Didn't think so. I guess you can throw that argument away. You ARE right it is natural, but is it really worth risking your snake's lives. There is a difference between killing through constriction and CO2 chambers. Constriction=force CO2=going to sleep and never waking up. Some horrible things happen in nature, do we really have to have those "things" under our watch too?

Sorry couldn't help but post again.

No but if I didn't have someone do it for me, I sure as hell would.

Why not? It's what snakes evolved to do.

 

[Meaningless End]

Who here kills cows with their bare hands and rocks like the Neandrathaws used to?

Didn't think so. I guess you can throw that argument away. You ARE right it is natural, but is it really worth risking your snake's lives. There is a difference between killing through constriction and CO2 chambers. Constriction=force CO2=going to sleep and never waking up. Some horrible things happen in nature, do we really have to have those "things" under our watch too?

Sorry couldn't help but post again.

yes i have killed my own food. im not a advid hunter but ive shot wild turkey, and been fishing plenty of times. is fishing wrong too or do you not feel as bad because there not fuzzy? everything suffers its part of life and i dont feel that bad about it. dead is dead one way or the other. weather the last couple of seconds REALY sucks or not seems a bit trivial.

 

[Meaningless End]

one more question? what about those poor little hissing cockroaches they cry so loud in pain when my T's pounce on them... is that cruel? should i be prekilling those as well?

 

[Scott C.]

Nice vid Meaningless.

 

[Kid Dragon]

There is no right or wrong answer, its person preference. I feed my cribo live mice, and it takes him 15 seconds to swallow one from the time he grabs it. I have a cribo, boa constrictor, kingsnake, two ball pythons, and nine corn snakes. The cribo eats three mice per week, the others eat one. I have fed them 16 mice per week for a year. The only blood shed has been the rodents'.

That being said here are some good reasons to feed frozen/thawed:
1. No chance of the predator getting bit by prey.
2. Freezing kills parasites and is considered better husbandry.
3. No chance of person getting bit by prey if you purchase frozen.
4. Less mess, a live mouse can poop or pee if it gets squeezed hard enough. I have also found a greater chance for blood shed with live prey.

Some good reasons to feed live prey.
1. No chance of predator eating prey that is not totally thawed.
2. You don't have to go through the thawing process which takes time.
3. Your freezer is rodent free.
4. If you lose power, you won't have rodent slushies.
5. It is entertaining/fascinating to watch a predator kill and eat prey.
6. It is more natural for the predator to make the kill and possibly better mentally for a predator to hunt. In zoos they think of creative ways to get animals to use their brains, and call it enrichment. They hide meat for the big cats to find and make them work a little.

In reality, there is no right or wrong answer. Its whatever works for you. I find joy in seeing my rose-haired tarantula come off a 6 month fast and finally eat crickets. Does that make me a bad person? :?

 

[Scott C.]

Not at all dude. Nice post.

 

[ThomasH]

Alright people, I hear a different answer on every forum so you all just go with the cool crowd.

 

[Scott C.]

Careful bud. When you fall off that horse it's gonna hurt.

Dude gave a nice disclaimer in an attempt to avoid the concerned citizens stomping all over yet another thread with their veiled jeers... You ignored it, and frankly, you came off as a total ass with your posts. Don't be bent that you're not being well received.

 

[ThomasH]

Have you ever been to a reptile based forum and said you feed live when you do be sure to give ME a link, "BUDDIE."

 

[P. Novak]

Have you ever been to a reptile based forum and said you feed live when you do be sure to give ME a link, "BUDDIE."

point me to one and I'll do it.

 

[Tleilaxu]

Speaking of enrichment would it be enriching to hide various food items in a snakes cage and make them look for it? While not as enriching as taking down live prey they still have to "hunt" for it.

And I refuse to feed live though I know that sometimes its nessesary and I will be honest I LOVE watching other peoples snakes eat live food, especially bunnies. As long as they do it in an appripriate manner I am fine with it.

 

[Jmugleston]

Honestly these arguments are a bit ridiculous. Neither side is going to convince the other. If you disagree, provide facts, evidence for your statments and then move on. If you can provide enough evidence, you won't need to go back and forth calling names. Otherwise, you are presenting your opinion and your feelings on the topic. And as we have seen from other venues, feelings aren't something that can be argued. So if you have evidence for why one is better than the other, why not post it. The anecdotal comments and the other superflous statements are not in any way supporting this hobby as these forums are supposed to do. That said, some prefer to feed live and have their reasons be it emotional, financial, educational, etc. Others prefer to feed frozen for many of the same reasons.

I feed most my animals frozen vertebrates, but the bugs are kicking when they hit the cage floor. I have exceptions and I will at times feed my monitors and some of my other lizards live. I am not glorifying the death of the rodent, but just offering an alternative food source source when I come across baby rodents and I don't have a gas chamber handy. I also feed my sunfire retic live mice even though I realize the rodent may bite back. I don't do this by choice, but she won't accept f/t yet. Once she will, she won't get another live item. Unless someone drops off some live rabbits. Once again I'll let her dispatch the rodents.

I don't have a problem feeding live prey as long as proper respect is given to the animal that is dying. I'm sure some have seen the youtube videos where the highlight isn't the predator, but more the death of the animal. Nature docs are different. They focus how the hunter survives, how it evolved, not how the prey die. If that is the purpose of the video, then I have no problem with it. If the video is made to glorify an animal suffering, then it bothers me. I don't mind a video of an animal taking down another if it is either for food or showing how that animal survives. I do mind mindless videos that are made to appeal to the morbid side of humanity (i.e. cockfighting, dog-fighting, etc.) that is how I base MY OPINION on the matter. It isn't fact, it is how I feel.

I try not to get involved in these, but honestly the original post was showing the collection and now there are multiple pages of people going back and forth presenting their personal opinions and beliefs as more then just that.

 

[Nich]

Who here kills cows with their bare hands and rocks like the Neandrathaws used to?

Didn't think so. I guess you can throw that argument away. You ARE right it is natural, but is it really worth risking your snake's lives. There is a difference between killing through constriction and CO2 chambers. Constriction=force CO2=going to sleep and never waking up. Some horrible things happen in nature, do we really have to have those "things" under our watch too?

Sorry couldn't help but post again.

Really whats your kick. Youve made a point...yet still feel the urge to be heard...lol. Get over it.


@ Meaningless, nice snakes...I love the arboreals. How much did your male run if you dont mind me asking?

 

[kingfarvito]

since when does CO2=going to sleep? Have you ever seen an animal in a gas chamber? If i remember correctly CO2 is carbon dioxide the stuff that makes soda fizz. carbon MONoxide is what makes one fall asleep and now wake up.

 

[Meaningless End]

Really whats your kick. Youve made a point...yet still feel the urge to be heard...lol. Get over it.


@ Meaningless, nice snakes...I love the arboreals. How much did your male run if you dont mind me asking?

the chondro? actually i got him 2 years ago as a import for 160 bucks. there was somthing wierd going on with his shipment and like 3/4 of the other chondros that came in with him all died within weeks.. he sold him to me for cost and i took him to the vet to get him treated for parasites, worms, dehydration, exe. he has done awsome.. best purchace i ever made

 

[nightbreed]

since when does CO2=going to sleep?

Ummm, since forever.

Here's an excerpt from an SIU paper on the correct use of CO2 for humanely euthanizing animals.

Carbon dioxide has a rapid depressant, analgesic and anesthetic effect. Carbon dioxide is nonflammable, nonexplosive, and poses minimal hazard to personnel when used with properly designed equipment. Because CO2 is heavier than air, incomplete filling of a chamber may permit animals to climb or raise their heads above the higher concentrations and avoid exposure. Compressed CO2 gas in cylinders is the only recommended source of carbon dioxide because the inflow to the chamber can be regulated precisely. Carbon dioxide generated by other methods such as from dry ice, fire extinguishers, or chemical means (i.e. antacids) is unacceptable. During euthanasia, species should be separated and chambers should not be overcrowded. With an animal in the chamber, an optimal flow rate should displace at least 20% of the chamber volume per minute. Loss of consciousness may be induced more rapidly by exposing animals to a CO2 concentration of 70% or more by prefilling the chamber. Gas flow should be maintained for at least 1 minute after apparent clinical death. It is important to verify that an animal is dead when removing it from the chamber.

CO works as well but there is a danger of explosion and I'm not sure if an animal killed with CO would be safe as a food item. :?

 

[ThomasH]

point me to one and I'll do it.

Redtailboa.net. REMEMBER the link part.

 

[ThomasH]

Honestly these arguments are a bit ridiculous. Neither side is going to convince the other. If you disagree, provide facts, evidence for your statments and then move on. If you can provide enough evidence, you won't need to go back and forth calling names. Otherwise, you are presenting your opinion and your feelings on the topic.

I provided more than enough evidence. Nobody chose to listen.

 

[mikeythefireman]

It'd be safe to feed, but where are you gonna isolate enough CO to euthanize with?

CO2 displaces oxygen in a room, CO displaces oxygen in your blood. The hemoglobin in your blood bonds better with CO (like a billion times better) than oxygen.

Boa,

I agree with most of your points, I've no intention of ever feeding live vertebrate prey, but you offered up no "evidence". You offered up anecdotal references and hearsay. The injured snakes in the link were all "rescued" snakes*. No telling the level of abuse or neglect involved. In no way does that thread provide evidence that appropriately sized live prey, offered for brief intervals dramatically increase the risk to the animals. Using a thread where there is still debate over the danger might not be the best method to proving your point.

Mikey

*There may have been better examples deeper in that thread, but I'm not gonna read all that drivel to find them.

 

[nightbreed]

It'd be safe to feed, but where are you gonna isolate enough CO to euthanize with?

Indeed, you can hardly pop down to the store and buy it over the counter, and running a hose from the tail pipe of your car wouldn't be a good idea. lol

CO2 displaces oxygen in a room, CO displaces oxygen in your blood. The hemoglobin in your blood bonds better with CO (like a billion times better) than oxygen.

Interesting, didn't know any of the CO stuff, thanks for the info