Fat-tail scorpion

[cricket54]

I found this "fat tail" scorp in a petshop here in NJ. I've been studying these for a yr, doing searches on the archnoboards and internet. Thought it was an
A. amourexii which is what I wanted, but think its an A. australis. The guy at the pet store said he thinks its wild caught and they've had it for 1 1/2 yrs.
In that time, he got so he trusted it so well he uses his bare hands to do stuff in the tank which surprised me. He did use tongs when he put it in a delicup, then put it in a second larger one which shows they know a little bit about hot scorpions. He thought it could be gravid because it hasn't been eating very much and getting fatter and fatter. I'm not even sure its a female. I used long tweezers to get her to come to climb the sides of the tank for pictures. It is a very docile calm scorpion. Much more so then I expected from a very hot scorpion. No signs of aggression or fear from her, didn't even run from being in bright light for photos. They told me they have been keeping "her" at room temperature all this time and I should be able to do that too. My question is if its gravid, or getting ready to molt, should I put a heat lamp above the cage (don't have one of those stick on heat mats right now). What I've read is some scorps need cooler temp. periods before they give birth. Guess it would need warmer temps if its going to try to molt. I do think I see a spot of mycosis on one leg in the pictures. I thought scorpion gestation is around 4 to 6 months and this one has been in the pet store for a yr and a half, so it might not be pregnant. Anyone have any guesses? And yes, I do know full well about the danger of having this one in captivity. The tank she is in has several velcro straps all wrapped around the tank and heavy screen top so its much harder to get into. Its on the top shelf of a large bookshelf, out of the way of kids. I also long long tweezers to do any maintainence. Used a large clear bowl to take her out of the tank and she sat still on the table for pictures. She/he's so fat its kinda hard for it to move very fast right now. Just wondering how much longer it will live anyway.

Sharon

 

[cricket54]

More pictures

Here are the rest of the pictures.



Sharon

 

[Brian S]

Looks like a subadult to me so it might molt

 

[cricket54]

Yeah, that would be nice. We counted 24 teeth on the pectines.

sharon

 

[Ryan C.]

Im pretty sure you got a female by the pectine count.

 

[Prymal]

Cricket,

A Very BEAUTIFUL australis and a sweet addition to a collection!

You know, I probably receive 3-6 emails a month from enthusiasts asking if I think their scorpion is really an (insert Androctonus species of choice) because it's not "aggressive" and doesn't try to "sting"! LOL

As for being surprised at the inoffensiveness of your "aussie" - don't be too surprised as the majority of Andros behave similarly. Most are runners and if they can avoid a confrontation, they're off into the secure confines of their retreats or tight against structure in an attempt to use concealment to elude detection. The whimpiest scorps in my entire collection are my Andros and L. quins!

Regardless of possessing potentially lethal venom, instinct dictates that it is better to avoid a possible injurious physical encounter with a potentially dangerous predator by fleeing; with active defense reserved for situations that offer no options for the scorpion to retreat. Remember also that the majority of envenomations are the result of accidental physical contact resulting in a spontaneous defensive reaction by the scorpion to a perceived threat. I believe that if a person were to accidentally touch and startle any scorpion that it would spontaneously react in a defensive manner against what it would instinctively consider an attack from a predator.

This is in no way meant to be an advocacy for the handling of potentially dangerous scorps as NO potentially dangerous scorp should be handled without use of the proper tools (padded forceps and a clear transfer container) but the "aggressiveness" (aggression implies the initiation of an attack) of the members of this genus has been a bit blown-out of proportion in my opinion - probably in an attempt to discourage physical interactions between curious enthusiasts and medically significant scorps or as simple "fear-babe" warnings based on tales and assumptions and not on accurate and timely facts!

 

[Prymal]

PTC of A. australis:

Males 28-33
Fems 22-27

 

[quiz]

Cricket,

A Very BEAUTIFUL australis and a sweet addition to a collection!

You know, I probably receive 3-6 emails a month from enthusiasts asking if I think their scorpion is really an (insert Androctonus species of choice) because it's not "aggressive" and doesn't try to "sting"! LOL

As for being surprised at the inoffensiveness of your "aussie" - don't be too surprised as the majority of Andros behave similarly. Most are runners and if they can avoid a confrontation, they're off into the secure confines of their retreats or tight against structure in an attempt to use concealment to elude detection. The whimpiest scorps in my entire collection are my Andros and L. quins!

Regardless of possessing potentially lethal venom, instinct dictates that it is better to avoid a possible injurious physical encounter with a potentially dangerous predator by fleeing; with active defense reserved for situations that offer no options for the scorpion to retreat. Remember also that the majority of envenomations are the result of accidental physical contact resulting in a spontaneous defensive reaction by the scorpion to a perceived threat. I believe that if a person were to accidentally touch and startle any scorpion that it would spontaneously react in a defensive manner against what it would instinctively consider an attack from a predator.

This is in no way meant to be an advocacy for the handling of potentially dangerous scorps as NO potentially dangerous scorp should be handled without use of the proper tools (padded forceps and a clear transfer container) but the "aggressiveness" (aggression implies the initiation of an attack) of the members of this genus has been a bit blown-out of proportion in my opinion - probably in an attempt to discourage physical interactions between curious enthusiasts and medically significant scorps or as simple "fear-babe" warnings based on tales and assumptions and not on accurate and timely facts!

That's true. I'm surprise to find my a.australis not aggressive but it's still a nice addition. My Iomachus politus scorplings are more fun to watch than a.australis. As soon as I drop a cricket that is 2-3x bigger than my Iomachus politus in their enclosure. They would raid that cricket like there's no tomorrow. My a.australis hides most of the time. I have 4 odontorus sp. coming in sometime next week and hopefully they're as active as my long claw.

 

[Prymal]

Heya Quiz,

Told ya Iomachus are great scorps. Sadly, this species as well as C. jonesii and O. asper are overlooked as great novice-level species. Iomachus are some of the hardiest scorps I've ever had in my collection - bulletproof fer shure!
My O. asper offspring are ravenous hunters as well and will readily attack anything that moves (or doesn't) in their enclosure. Looks strange seeing these small I2 scorps dragging large crix around the enclosure. The amazing thing is that they can actually consume the ENTIRE cricket and be hungry again in 2-3 days! LOL

 

[xanadu1015]

Bark,

You rock! My mom was so worried that she was going to be villified for getting this scorpion even though she is not considered an expert. She was even worried I would be upset since I live here with my husband and two young children. I was there the first time she saw this scorpion and I kept telling her if she really wants it, to get it. I keep black widows but I am smart enough to keep them out of reach from my son and daughter. I know she would do the same. Besides, I think they are cute. My husband might worry since he read an outlandish article on this species of scorpion (sensationalism anyone?) saying the venom is stronger and deadlier than cobra venom. He'll get over it, he got over me keeping widows, he'll get over this. I'll win him over to the darkside. Besides, it is all his fault for getting my mom and I into scorpions. He was the one who started bringing home Emperors. Yeah, thats the ticket! It is all his fault! He used mind control, I swear!

Ahem, anyway, now he's all worried about Alex getting in to the tank or it getting loose. Um....I think my mom and I are very good at using velcro, and even though we are short, we can put this scorpion up on a high shelf. Stairs, ladders and stools have been invented, you know. He has even expressed interest in watching the tarantulas eat, though it will take a while to get him to hold any.


Anyway, thanks for the info, it is a big relief to hear all of this. I know my mom greatly appreciates it. She adores this little girl and she is so pleased with her attitude. Glad to hear her personality is not a fluke. Thanks again!


Laura

 

[Prymal]

Laura,

Thanks.

However, I do not desire to lull you or anyone into any sense of false security. You see, when discussing reactions of animals to various stimuli, generalizations must be made based on varying numbers of typical specimens and these generalizations are not accurate determiners of how ALL specimens within a species will react. If outside and away from a retreat or escape option or if suddenly startled ANY scorpion is prone to a spontaneous defensive reaction.
To date, I've had many specimens of all 5 commonly available Androctonus spp. and have never found any to be as spontaneously defensively reactive as typical specimens of Hadrurus arizonensis. I also have a few "nasty" males of Diplocentrus lindo that will "sting" with very little provocation!
However, with the above being "said" - there always remains a potential for mishap when keeping ANY potentially dangerous animal in captivity. This applies to ANY animal!
In the past I kept many venomous and non-venomous snakes and my most ferocious captives were black and to a lesser extent, blue racers (yup, non-venomous). Even cb blacks came up mean as all hell and the numerous marks on my hands are arms are proof of their none-too-tractable natures! Next on the list of herptile "nasties" would be coachwhips and water snakes! Some of my most tractable and inoffensive snakes were copperheads!
A. australis is definitely in the top 5 most potentially dangerous scorps in the world, and to be quite honest, I am more apprehensive of being "stung" by this species above any other even L. quinquestriatus. L. quins may possess highly-potent, potentially dangerous neurotrophic venom but A. australis not only has the ability to produce highly-potent, potentially dangerous neurotrophic venom but the ability to produce and inject it in COPIOUS amounts!
No need to freak but if there are children about INSURE that the enclosure is well secured and placed out of reach. Even the most inoffensive animal may react defensively if starled by a sudden touch and as you well know by now, nothing surpasses the curiosity of kids.
So, as long as you respect this species for it's potentially dangerous venom and practice responsible maintenance, there should be no problems. Good luck!

 

[xanadu1015]

Oh I understand! The natures of most widows are shy and would rather run from you than attack, but I still don't like to take chances. I don't handle or touch them and getting things out of their webs I use large tongs. I apply the same thing to this scorp. I keep my hands away and use the tongs instead. I get the feeling that she would probably just run from me, but I don't like to leave things to chance. It is better to be safe than sorry. I told my mom that I would prefer to have her on a high shelf since there is always the chance Alex decides to check out the dirt in her tank. I don't trust him when it comes to curiousity. But of course my mom was well prepared and had the top shelf cleared off to make room already. I trust her not to take chances either. We work together with these so each of us can keep watch for the other. I like observing more than handling anyway. I appreciate you sharing all this with me. My mom knows more about these than I do, so I welcome the chance to learn.


Laura

 

[Prymal]

Laura,

Sounds like you & mom have it going on and the bases covered so enjoy your scorp.

As you keep Latro's, keep an eye out for L. bishopi - I used to keep and breed these and they're some of the most beautiful widows in the US. A bit hard to find and a bit expensive when you find 'em but they're well worth the price!

Take care...

 

[azatrox]

So let me get this right....

Yep, it's definitely an australis, and if that is the case, then I would seriously have to question the rationale of performing maintainence in the enclosure with one's bare hands... Whether their "aggressiveness" is overblown or not, A. australis is certainly NOT the scorp to take unnecessary libierties with under any circumstances! (BTW my australis is a runner, but get it backed into a corner, and it does not hesitate to sting.)

I sincerely hope that he does not "trust" any scorp, much less an australis.These animals are wild, and any amount of time in captivity does not change that....They will behave unpredictably at times, and if one's fingers/hands happen to be in the enclosure when she has a "moment", then things might get a wee bit "fugly"....I'm sincerely glad to hear that you're using appropriate equipment when dealing with her....

BTW...Nice lookin' australis...give her the respect she deserves, and she'll live for a long while for ya and make a rewarding captive....

-AzAtrox

 

[cricket54]

Thanks guys for your replies and advice! I was shocked that this guy would reach into all of the scorpion tanks with his bare hands to lift up the hides and water bowls to show the scorpions to us. Maybe its because he is young, or maybe even breeders who know these well do this sometimes. They were all in 2.5 gal aquariums. The right kind of substrate for each species. Seemed to me this young man really knew his stuff and the danger of these. I believe they even had a death stalker, but it was labeled as a Tunisian scorp of some kind. I was interested in the Androctonus species because I hear they live longer then some and how they look. I was more concerned about a scorpion that could climb out and be loose in the house actually. No matter how escape proof you make a tarantula home, they can escape or climb out on you when you open the top to do maintainence. I've had many milder scorpions and lots of tarantulas, so I agree that you don't get complacent and assume they will always be predictable. Yes she will probably sit and hide a lot, not be as active as my H. arizonis, but I think she is neat to watch. So different looking then all my others. So I'm searching for info on whether I should use a heat lamp on this one. Room temperature here is 75 which is good for night, but if she is going to molt or give birth, do I need to raise the temperature during the day? The guy at the store said it would be just fine without the extra heat.

Sharon

 

[cricket54]

Hi Azatrox, no he didn't tail her with his bare hands. He used reg. long tweezers to pick her up by the tail and put her in a delicup for me. Don't think he would be that dumb at least. I do not think free handling this species would be wise at all. The only scorpions I have ever held have been my P. emperors, H. arizonis, and my "olive keeled flatrock". The last one being the one that will sting much more readily. Do not plan, or ever will try and hold this Androctonus at all. I don't even like to pick any up by the tail either. It just seems to easy to injure them or have them turn and tag or pinch you. I've learned a whole lot about saftey with hot scorps on this scorpion section on the Arachnoboards. The other info on other websites doesn't seem to be as good as all you guys on here have posted. I love the Arachnoboards !!!!

Sharon

 

[Prymal]

Cricket,

75F for a night time temp is fine. If possible, do your best to keep day time temps around 80F or more.

And, I wouldn't worry too much about scorpions climbing out of their enclosures unless enclosure decorations, hides, etc. exceed more than half the height of the enclosure or you're dealing with early-instar specimens, which CAN scale the silicone sealant in the corners, scratches in plastic vivaria and even residual scale left by hard water usage in an enclosure.

ALL Androctonus are capable climbers but scaling smooth surfaces is something you'll not have to worry about!

Take care...

 

[azatrox]

Cricket...

Glad to hear that you're not going to be cuddling with your Andro! I imagine she might not appreciate the close contact....These are great scorps (my faves), but they are definitely a "look only" type of critter....I wouldn't recommend a heat lamp, as these criiters are largely nocturnal and will only come out @ night anyway....If you're looking to create more heat, I'd recommend a heat pad (set on the lowest possible setting) placed under about 1/3 of the enclosure....This will create a thermal gradient, and the scorp can choose which temp suits it best...She'll be given a choice of temps, which is always good....

Well, if that guy feels comfortable reaching into enclosures with his hands and lifting up hides that may/may not conceal exceedingly dangerous critters, then no one can stop him I suppose....To me, that's just an accident waiting to happen though...I've kept alot of venomous animals and I know that the surest way for something to get banned is for some maroon to get tagged doing something stupid....The press gets involved, it makes the 6 o'clock news and it's all downhill from there....

(Not to mention the fact that if he did get hit pretty good, finding AV might present a bit of an issue in NJ.)

-AzAtrox

 

[ThatGuy]

By the way that A.A is a male. and avery nice one at that :clap:

 

[cricket54]

Thanks guys for your replys and your advice. I have not seen a reptile heat pad. Is this something you can find at a reptile show? I will be going to the Md. Reptile Farm's reptile show in Havre De Grace MD this weekend and will ask about these when I am there. I've got a ceramic heat lamp with a 40 watt red bulb, but I am conserned about this scorpion becoming too hot in only a 2.5 gal aquarium with several inches of sand and a little peat moss mixed in.

Sharon