Failure to shed esophagus?

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
3,786
Here's the problem: the juvenile female B. emilia I posted some pics of a while back cannot eat. She hunts and kills and occasionally even "picks at her food" with some minor mastication with her fangs, but never is able to eat. This has now occurred on at least five different feedings since her last moult and all go the same way - she's hungry, she pounces, kills, and then eventually just drops the crickets dead but uneaten. Otherwise she appears and acts normal. Since this problem began after her last moult so it may possibly be that the mouth parts and esophagus failed to shed, this is my best guess (but as always I'm looking for other suggestions of the cause).

Anyone had any luck with this sort of problem? She's got a reasonable store of fat so she could probably last until another shed if there's hope that she could shed all of the mouth/esophagus parts then. I'm worried about the girl because she's a stunning looking specimen and I don't want to lose her, but a T that can't eat is a T that's going to die.
 

Kenny

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
294
A Question

Hi

Sorry to hear about the problem with your juvenile

Have you seen her drink any water?
 

anthony2561

Banned
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Messages
73
I am sorry about that, but ive never heard about a problem like that. U say that she just kills her prey and leaves them there after her venom in injected?????Thats weird, i think that u should c a vet(My vet for my T's is awesome, although ive never heard about T vets until i took my dog and asked about them ). I think that u should keep trying 2 feed her, or maybe shes just plain old not hungry?U said that she had alot of fat on her?:( but i am sorry for ur t's problem
 

Chris

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 9, 2002
Messages
284
I have had this happen with my rose hairs before... she did this for a couple of months and then began to eat.
 

atavuss

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
1,034
CM, how big is she? if it was me, I would be trying different food items. I would also put her in the warmest part of the room to try and speed up another molt. does it seem as if she can drink water ok, or because she can't eat it also stands to reason she would not be able to drink?
Ed
 

The_Phantom

Scarlet O' Hairy
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
1,062
I hope you solve this problem Code, unfortunitly I know nothing of this problem how to solve it. I was wondering what happened with Special K ?
 

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
3,786
Originally posted by atavuss
CM, how big is she? if it was me, I would be trying different food items. I would also put her in the warmest part of the room to try and speed up another molt. does it seem as if she can drink water ok, or because she can't eat it also stands to reason she would not be able to drink?
Ed
She's a good 2.5" and fed readily prior to the moult. It appears that she can drink which does seem to counterindicate the problem I suspect. On the other hand, it's the only explanation that I know of that could explain the behaviour I'm seeing. If I understood T anatomy a little better I might be able to rule out the problem based on the apparent drinking, but what I'm wondering is if would be possible to have the old esophagus mouth parts present and still be able to drink but not be able to excrete the digestive fluids that make eating possible.

Right now I'm hoping for some sort of "passing phase" or that another moult gets here within the next couple of months. I'll keep offering foods in hopes of improvement but it's getting semi-depressing watching her sit all day in that "hungry tarantula" pose and then not be able to eat her prey.
 

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
3,786
Originally posted by anthony2561
Thats weird, i think that u should c a vet(My vet for my T's is awesome, although ive never heard about T vets until i took my dog and asked about them ). I think that u should keep trying 2 feed her, or maybe shes just plain old not hungry?U said that she had alot of fat on her?:( but i am sorry for ur t's problem
If you have a vet who can actually treat Ts then you have a vet who is self-taught and more importantly, a vet who doesn't do anything more than any one of us can do. My wife's a vet student and there is absolutely nothing in vet school that teaches a vet a thing about invertebrates. I see too many horror stories about vets doing brilliant things like prescribing steroid creams because a T's abdomen was balding to ever trust a vet with my spiders. I trust myself and the people on these forums to know more than almost any vet any day of the week when it comes to tarantulas.

Sadly, she is definitely hungry and the fat she has on her is what is left from before the moult, i.e. not that much really, but hopefully enough to outlive whatever is stopping her from eating. Still, thanks to you and everyone for the good wishes.
 

Tranz

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
320
So why not add liquified meat to her water dish? The trick would be to thoroughly liquify it so that it mixed with the water, or locate some preformulated solution. Simple beef blood, raw or cooked - or even beef or fish broth?

In the "Tarantula Keeper's Guide", they speak of theoretically injecting a tarantula with an artificial blood solution. Would such a solution mixed with nutrients work as an IV? In direst eventual circumstances it might be worth trying.
 

Immortal_sin

Arachnotemptress
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 17, 2002
Messages
3,955
C_M
sorry to hear about that...I'm assuming that you were not able to retrieve the last exuvia intact?
The reason I'm asking is that in intact exuvium, you can clearly see the shed mouth and esophagus parts, that long, thin line that ends in sort of a spoon shape?
Possibly she was not large enough last molt to see it either, but in some of my larger Ts, it's really easy to see.
Just curious, since that would help solve your question.
Like Ed said, maybe keep her really warm to speed her up till next molt, and keep trying to feed her?
Holley
 

Joy

Priestess of Pulchra-tude
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
903
Originally posted by Code Monkey

Anyone had any luck with this sort of problem? She's got a reasonable store of fat so she could probably last until another shed if there's hope that she could shed all of the mouth/esophagus parts then. I'm worried about the girl because she's a stunning looking specimen and I don't want to lose her, but a T that can't eat is a T that's going to die.
Your diagnosis sounds reasonable given the symptoms. I haven't actually nursed a tarantula through that situation, but I have 2 E. campestratus who have similar problems (unable to eat owing to bad molts), and they're still alive even at Instar 2 without having eaten in the last month (or indeed at all, apart from the nutrition in the egg). I'm making sure they have water available to them (via paper towel substrate in my case) and am keeping them warm in hopes of hastening the molt. I don't see what more you can do, either, though I agree it wouldn't hurt to keep feeding yours just in case something clicks.

Joy
 

Kenny

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
294
My thought

My thought was to make somekind of very "liquidish" food mixture, as water is, if she could take some kind of fluid.

That's an experiment itself what the T like, but to exaggerate a little, like a "cricket-milkshake".:)

Kenny
 

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
3,786
Originally posted by Immortal_sin
C_M
sorry to hear about that...I'm assuming that you were not able to retrieve the last exuvia intact?
The reason I'm asking is that in intact exuvium, you can clearly see the shed mouth and esophagus parts, that long, thin line that ends in sort of a spoon shape?
Good thinking, Holley, I know what you're talking about - it's one of those "cool" features to point out to the mundanes. If I had thought to look I could have, it just didn't occur to me at the time and I'm not sure if I threw the exuvia out or not. I guess now that I've stopped being in denial about the problem I should go dig through all of those skins I haven't thrown out yet and see if any are hers. This may be a time that my bad habit of just tossing the skin to the rear of my shelves may come in handy.

<dramatic pause>

Yep, being a bit slobbish comes to the rescue. Now I don't know what to think because it does appear that everything came out all right. That leaves me with a spider who appears unable to eat with the most likely cause ruled out, doh! Time to start experimenting with foods to see if maybe it's just a freakish behavior because she got tired of crickets or something.
 

Immortal_sin

Arachnotemptress
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 17, 2002
Messages
3,955
glad you were able to rule that out, and that it appears she is 'normal', or as normal as a spider can be LOL
Maybe she is just being really picky...hopefully you can offer her something that she likes
 

Bob the thief

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
285
I have seen this with my usambara slings , my curly slings and my pink toe slings.

All of the time its when I have fed them timberline mealworms.
If I feed them mealworms from my own homegrown culture they eat them.

It could be the food.
 

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
3,786
Originally posted by conipto
Hey Chip, I thought you might find this thread interesting (my second post, not the first)

http://www.arachnopets.com/arachnoboards/showthread.php?s=&postid=44978#post44978

Bill
Interesting and disturbing. I'm hoping it does turn out to just be the food, but I'm not placing any bets. These crickets are from the same supplier she happily gobbled up pre-moult. I'm going to try feeding her some of my larger roach nymphs when I get a chance and see if she eats those or if I get the same kill and drag it off like a demented serial killing T.
 
Top