experimental terrarium

hypertension

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
18
I know that heterometrus longimanus and hottentotta hottentotta are both communal but I wanted to see if they can live communally in just one enclosure.

size: five gallon rubbermaid
inverts: one 6i h. longimanus; three h. hottentotta - two 6i, one 3i
substrate: 50% sphagnum moss, 50% coco husk/coco dust
plants: philodendron xanadu, caladium bicolor

Here is the setup:



Here is the newly molted 6i h. longi:


Here are the h. hottentotta. If you will look closely, the 3i is just beside the 6i.


driftwood:



I had just finished this setup this day so I had not made any important observations yet.
Have you any idea if these two species will live in peace?
 

Nomadinexile

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
2,675
The setup looks great! It should be an interesting experiment. I have no idea what kind of losses you will have.

If you want a guess, mine would be that you will loose a couple of the H. hottentotta. I would expect one to make it to have a brood or two. I would also expect to loose one of the Heterometrus during a molt.

But that is really just a guess! They could all get along just fine, or they could stress out and all turn into killing machines and you end up with one fat one. Keep them well fed, and keep us updated though. I know I'm not the only one here curious about how this will turn out! :clap:
 

Korni

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
53
sorry, but i think it's silly to put these species together.

The Heterometrus is a humid species. the need 70% humidity or more.

Hottentotta hottentotta are arid and need different parameters.

If you try to put two arid oder two humid species together there is no problem. But a humid and a arid. :wall:
 

AzJohn

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
2,181
I agree with korni. Try species from the same geographical region. I macs or Lychas and heterometrus might work better.

John
 

Nomadinexile

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
2,675
I know H. hottentotta is considered an arid specie, but you all do know that it shares much of its range with P. imperator right?

http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/p2007_58 full.pdf

It's range is very wide, and it does inhabit humid areas with very high humidity levels, as well as arid regions. It may be better in the long run to keep it on the dryer side, but I don't think the increased humidity here will cause any problems. In fact, depending on the collection location, it may be closer to what it is used to. :)
 

hypertension

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
18
sorry, but i think it's silly to put these species together.

The Heterometrus is a humid species. the need 70% humidity or more.

Hottentotta hottentotta are arid and need different parameters.

If you try to put two arid oder two humid species together there is no problem. But a humid and a arid. :wall:
I mist my h. hottentotta enclosure once a week. But I experimented with misting another h.hottentotta enclosure twice a week - same as what I give to the h. longimanus' enclosure - and that h.h does not seem to mind the increase in humidity. (I am a newb.) I did not observe any change in behavior or activity.

I respect your opinion that putting them together is a silly move. But I am willing to suffer any consequence that my experiment will bring. If they thrive well together, then that will be good. If they don't, I will learn a valuable lesson..from a silly move.
 

crixalis

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
80
this is a great idea, put some active roaches there. and it would be nice to see them hunting
 

Kaos

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
611
That's just plain stupid if you ask me, these are species from different continents..... What's the point of this experiment, if it's even fair to call it that, when you do an experiment there ought to be a reasonable thesis you're testing. Due to size the Hottentotta hottentotta are most likely gonna get eaten. Also, do you know the H. hottentotta you have are from a more humid location? There may be adaptations to location in different populations within the same species and if they are from an arid environment they will most likely end up with severe mycosis and die.
 

Nomadinexile

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
2,675
That's just plain stupid if you ask me, these are species from different continents..... What's the point of this experiment, if it's even fair to call it that, when you do an experiment there ought to be a reasonable thesis you're testing. Due to size the Hottentotta hottentotta are most likely gonna get eaten. Also, do you know the H. hottentotta you have are from a more humid location? There may be adaptations to location in different populations within the same species and if they are from an arid environment they will most likely end up with severe mycosis and die.
I have to disagree with much of your comment Kaos.

Yes they are from different continents.

I don't know what is on the OP's mind for thesis, but I know many of us here have thought about or wanted to, have a multi-species tank. I certainly think this experiment is as worthwhile as some "scientific" experiments that involve killing for dissection, let alone the cruel animal experimentation that goes on for the medical and cosmetic industries.

Many respected hobbyists and books for hobbyists recommend or accept the possibility of thinning large populations in captivity by allowing cannibalism. So why not allow an experiment that is likely to involve the death of three specimens? You may not think the prospects of success are an interesting thesis, but many of us do.

Many people have communal tanks where there are losses. Why is this such a big deal to you? Should we require all scorpions to be kept in single containers? Even the most communal species experience loss sometimes, and I don't see communal tanks going away anytime soon.

Do you know if they are from a dry location? What if they are not? Are you desiccating or dehydrating your scorpions? What if they want a nice little forest biome? That is part of the problem with keeping animals from different regional habitats. I live in New Orleans right now, and it's very hot and humid in the summer. Absolutely miserable to be outside for any length of time, let alone if you have to work. Yet invariably, people keep dogs from places like Norway, and keep them outside all day long.

Many animals, including scorpions, do not have perfect conditions in captivity. They might not be getting a balanced diet, or high enough summer temperatures, or the humidity is not correct. I have seen scorpions kept in tiny containers for their size, or not given any water or misting when they should.

You could get mad at a lot of things in this world. Many of them would be just and worthwhile, but I don't think this is one of them. That is a very nice tank, and if the OP wants to try this, and is willing to have the losses, then I say go for it. I think it's as worthwhile as any experiment, and is not nearly as bad as many, many situations for both scorpions and other animals (and humans).

Without trying, we just won't know. Maybe the H.h. will be able to avoid the H.l. Maybe they will thrive. Maybe they will all thrive. We just don't know. But soon we may do to the op. I for one would love to see the results, as long as he knows the possible consequences.

And I hope you take my words with the understanding that I mean no offense to you, just as I hope you meant no offense to the OP with words like stupid and (un)reasonable. :)
 

Kaos

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
611
I have to disagree with much of your comment Kaos.

Yes they are from different continents.

I don't know what is on the OP's mind for thesis, but I know many of us here have thought about or wanted to, have a multi-species tank. I certainly think this experiment is as worthwhile as some "scientific" experiments that involve killing for dissection, let alone the cruel animal experimentation that goes on for the medical and cosmetic industries.

Many respected hobbyists and books for hobbyists recommend or accept the possibility of thinning large populations in captivity by allowing cannibalism. So why not allow an experiment that is likely to involve the death of three specimens? You may not think the prospects of success are an interesting thesis, but many of us do.

Many people have communal tanks where there are losses. Why is this such a big deal to you? Should we require all scorpions to be kept in single containers? Even the most communal species experience loss sometimes, and I don't see communal tanks going away anytime soon.

Do you know if they are from a dry location? What if they are not? Are you desiccating or dehydrating your scorpions? What if they want a nice little forest biome? That is part of the problem with keeping animals from different regional habitats. I live in New Orleans right now, and it's very hot and humid in the summer. Absolutely miserable to be outside for any length of time, let alone if you have to work. Yet invariably, people keep dogs from places like Norway, and keep them outside all day long.

Many animals, including scorpions, do not have perfect conditions in captivity. They might not be getting a balanced diet, or high enough summer temperatures, or the humidity is not correct. I have seen scorpions kept in tiny containers for their size, or not given any water or misting when they should.

You could get mad at a lot of things in this world. Many of them would be just and worthwhile, but I don't think this is one of them. That is a very nice tank, and if the OP wants to try this, and is willing to have the losses, then I say go for it. I think it's as worthwhile as any experiment, and is not nearly as bad as many, many situations for both scorpions and other animals (and humans).

Without trying, we just won't know. Maybe the H.h. will be able to avoid the H.l. Maybe they will thrive. Maybe they will all thrive. We just don't know. But soon we may do to the op. I for one would love to see the results, as long as he knows the possible consequences.

And I hope you take my words with the understanding that I mean no offense to you, just as I hope you meant no offense to the OP with words like stupid and (un)reasonable. :)

No offense meant, I'm not mad about it, I just don't understand the point of doing this. If it were two species that crossed living areas in nature I would find it interesting to see how they got along, unless there was previous knowledge about it. I've kept scorpions for close to 10 years and had some experiments with communal setups and losses. The tank is nice and it might work, I just don't see the value in this information. I wanted to express my opinion, maybe i came across as to crass, if so sorry for that.
 

Nomadinexile

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
2,675
A little. It's hard to be critical without doing so online. Thanks for clarifying. :)

I get where you are coming from, I do. I think having a location specific multi-species tank would be a better idea. But for some of us, that isn't an option for different reasons.

I do also see how it would be interesting to see how species from different regions and/or biomes got along as well though. Think about humans for a second, or dogs if you think humans as being exceptional.

Dogs of different species from different parts of the world can live together and even form packs. In fact, rarely is it a problem. Same goes for humans. I have friends from Europe, Africa, Australia, the Middle East, Eastern Asia, etc.

We all get along just fine. In fact, better than is often the case when I'm stuck together with a bunch of Americans who grew up in the same area.

I know scorpions are not dogs or humans. There are certainly differences. But I also see the value of this experiment. Terrariums and experience don't have to follow certain rules, especially if you are willing to accept failure. :)

Sorry for bad quality of upload, it's the only pic I have of this. This cohabitation happened by accident. I don't remember the details, and I am unsure of how long they were together, except I'm pretty sure it was at least 3 weeks, if not longer. This is a mesic C. vittatus and P. reddelli. They share habitat, and were probably collected (by me) close to one another. The cage they were in had many hides, cork and rock, and yet they were both sharing this one. :? :D
 

Attachments

Last edited:

telow

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
446
i dont know if it a good idea as to the differences in habbitats on those species and that the bigger species could very well eat the smaller species
and they could go into fight mode and 1 stings the other and 1 dies or both
its safer not to do that im my thoughts on this but you never know what will happen with something like that but like i said its safer not do this
 

signinsimple

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
588
I like your train of thought, But I've found multi-species set-ups generally work sparringly, and then usually only if the specimens are all relatively the same size (I've kept H. Longmanus, Emps, H Spinifers, and P. Cavimanus all togehter in a large tank..When the size diff was more than 1/2 inch as an adult, they were gonners..everything between 4 and 4 1/2 inch long got along fine)

I'm imagining that before long you'll just end up with 1 H. Longimanus.
 
Top