Ephebopus murinus: Questions and Advice

[joossa]

I was gifted a female E. murinus for my birthday a few days ago. (I did not know this was going to be given to me.) She came with her enclosure. I’ve done some research the last few days and am concerned about a few things and have questions, mainly about the setup. From what I read, it is best to keep this species like an Asian fossorial: lots of depth and sub to burrow in, moderate ventilation, and moist sub at all times.

It looks like she is set up in a less than ideal manner. She’s in a plastic 15in(L) x 10in(W) x 6.5in(H) Sterilite container…pretty large. Tons of floor space, but with a height of 6in and at the deepest, currently has about 4in of substrate. The sub is a mix of 75% pure peat and 25% sand.
According to the person that gifted her to me, she has always been pretty docile and not skittish and has not been a burrower (despite her having a starter burrow in her current enclosure).

She hangs out in the open and has webbed almost the entire surface of the substrate going up to the lid. I have read that if kept this way (more terrestrially), the T could be more defensive and prone to panic and bolt out of the enclosure when it’s opened since it does not have a burrow to retreat to.


So, some questions…
1) Is this enclosure acceptable for the T or does it need something deeper? How’s the ventilation?

2) If the enclosure is acceptable, why is the T not burrowing at all? Could this individual just like staying out of in the open (in know it’s unlikely, but had to ask)?

3) Would this T be okay if daytime temps in the rooms she’s in got to 85F or so for several hours of the day?

4) I only have experience with “easy” NW terrestrials that are kept on dry soil, mainly Brachypelma, and am not sure if this T is right for me. With that being said:
a) It seems the defensiveness of this T can be all over the place based on what I read. I also read they can be really fast. Would you consider this a good intermediate species in terms of difficulty or this this more of an advanced level species?

b) How do you all prevent fungus/mold in an enclosure that requires constantly moist sub?

c) If fungus or mold does occur, how do you deal with it considering the T depends on moist conditions? Mold and fungus is something I have like no experience with since I keep all my other Ts bone dry.


Worst case, she was given to me by a family member and I could potentially return her if she does not end up being a good fit for me. The person that gave her to me thought it would be a good step up from my current Ts in order to gain more experience with faster and more moisture dependent Ts. She is a beautiful T, but I tend to be a worry wart.

 

[viper69]

They are a fast species, that rarely moves slowly when disturbed.

I’ve owned their “cousin” from the same genus. Incredibly nervous species even when they have a proper set up.

These aren’t too different.

I never kept mine too moist, preferred on the dry side.

The setup you show is fine IMO.

I wouldn’t disturb an adult that has clearly made itself at home. Check out all the webbing.

Not worth making a T cranky, nor feel out of home based on the level of building it has done that I see.

Not an advanced species- intermediate.

Many NW arboreals are advanced.

Mold- spot clean

 

[Smotzer]

Man she’s gorgeous!! Makes me jealous!!

1.) was she defensive with not having a burrow when trying to take these photos?
-ventilation looks fine but I might personally add a little bit more.

3.) as opposed to what? Is this the same temps all your tarantulas go through?

b) How do you all prevent fungus/mold in an enclosure that requires constantly moist sub?

c) If fungus or mold does occur, how do you deal with it considering the T depends on moist conditions? Mold and fungus is something I have like no experience with since I keep all my other Ts bone dry.

Don’t worry about fungi, fungi are actually a good sign that your soil is not unhealthy. Mold also is not harmful. You can spot clean mold, and you can allow portions to dry out from time to time like you see yours is not totally moist all over.

4.) I think you could take keeping this on!! If it’s overly skittish and defensive now it may just need to be re set up to be more fossorial. If it’s not maybe it can be left as is but how it’s set up with nowhere to retreat to I am not a fan of. It makes maintenance difficult.

Also I’d get a nice size water dish in these ASAP.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

I tend to agree with viper about the enclosure. Initially i thought no, it needs a new one. But it has opportunities to burrow some in that one, and if it has chose to web that much and not burrow instead, then why not leave it be. Do be aware that since it didn't burrow, when you open the enclosure youre basically intruding into its "burrow" and it will be much more defensive/skittish than if it had burrowed. Beautiful spider btw.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

Man she’s gorgeous!! Makes me jealous!!

1.) was she defensive with not having a burrow when trying to take these photos?
-ventilation looks fine but I might personally add a little bit more.

3.) as opposed to what? Is this the same temps all your tarantulas go through?


Don’t worry about fungi, fungi are actually a good sign that your soil is not unhealthy. Mold also is not harmful. You can spot clean mold, and you can allow portions to dry out from time to time like you see yours is not totally moist all over.

4.) I think you could take keeping this on!! If it’s overly skittish and defensive now it may just need to be re set up to be more fossorial. If it’s not maybe it can be left as is but how it’s set up with nowhere to retreat to I am not a fan of. It makes maintenance difficult.

Also I’d get a nice size water dish in these ASAP.

He has one its just webbed over lol

 

[Wolfram1]

I wouldnt worry too much about the moisture they seem pretty adaptable, at least my E. cyanognatus is.

I just make sure there is some moisture in the lower layers of dirt.

 

[NMTs]

Nice spider!!

My E. murinus likes to burrow - it has burrowed all the way to the bottom of 10" deep substrate, and is now expanding it's tunnel along the bottom edge of the enclosure. It webs up the excavated sub around the opening of the burrow to create a bit of a turret mound, as well as webbing the inside of the tunnel. That's all the webbing that it's done, though - nothing like what you have there. I keep the sub moist down deep and a little drier up towards the top, but I don't ever let it dry out completely.

I'm with the others, though - no need to make any drastic changes to an already established enclosure unless you experience issues with defensiveness or bolting. I would say that if it was so inclined, the T could be out of that enclosure in a blink, because they are really quick.

 

[HeartBum]

Unusual for sure but as others have said, there’s no point rehousing if it has laid down web and seems happy enough. Funnily, I randomly took some photos of my E. murinus’ set up last night. Much like @NMTs, mine has also made a turret of sorts and has webbed all throughout and down the sides of the enclosure. Only recently have I started seeing some surface webbing.

Mine is very skittish but opts to suck itself into its burrow rather than out, which I can’t complain about! I do wonder how skittish and defensive yours may be if it doesn’t have somewhere to retreat to… and yes, they’re prone to bolts of speed so it is something to be aware of. Overall though, low maintenance and the substrate is kept moist but I have heard of some acclimatising theirs to dry, more successful in captive bred individuals (which is most).

 

[NMTs]

Unusual for sure but as others have said, there’s no point rehousing if it has laid down web and seems happy enough. Funnily, I randomly took some photos of my E. murinus’ set up last night. Much like @NMTs, mine has also made a turret of sorts and has webbed all throughout and down the sides of the enclosure. Only recently have I started seeing some surface webbing.

Mine is very skittish but opts to suck itself into its burrow rather than out, which I can’t complain about! I do wonder how skittish and defensive yours may be if it doesn’t have somewhere to retreat to… and yes, they’re prone to bolts of speed so it is something to be aware of. Overall though, low maintenance and the substrate is kept moist but I have heard of some acclimatising theirs to dry, more successful in captive bred individuals (which is most).

View attachment 416051 View attachment 416052 View attachment 416053

Here's the mound that mine has made. It goes sideways because it used the starter burrow I made for it under the cork bark, but still a pretty nice bit of work.



You can also see in this pic that the tunnel goes all the way down to the bottom (kind of).



Even though they are fossorial and quick/skittish, this is still one of my favorites species. I would be overjoyed to come by one like you have @joossa. Enjoy it!!

 

[Jonathan6303]

I was gifted a female E. murinus for my birthday a few days ago. (I did not know this was going to be given to me.) She came with her enclosure. I’ve done some research the last few days and am concerned about a few things and have questions, mainly about the setup. From what I read, it is best to keep this species like an Asian fossorial: lots of depth and sub to burrow in, moderate ventilation, and moist sub at all times.

It looks like she is set up in a less than ideal manner. She’s in a plastic 15in(L) x 10in(W) x 6.5in(H) Sterilite container…pretty large. Tons of floor space, but with a height of 6in and at the deepest, currently has about 4in of substrate. The sub is a mix of 75% pure peat and 25% sand.
According to the person that gifted her to me, she has always been pretty docile and not skittish and has not been a burrower (despite her having a starter burrow in her current enclosure).

She hangs out in the open and has webbed almost the entire surface of the substrate going up to the lid. I have read that if kept this way (more terrestrially), the T could be more defensive and prone to panic and bolt out of the enclosure when it’s opened since it does not have a burrow to retreat to.


So, some questions…
1) Is this enclosure acceptable for the T or does it need something deeper? How’s the ventilation?

2) If the enclosure is acceptable, why is the T not burrowing at all? Could this individual just like staying out of in the open (in know it’s unlikely, but had to ask)?

3) Would this T be okay if daytime temps in the rooms she’s in got to 85F or so for several hours of the day?

4) I only have experience with “easy” NW terrestrials that are kept on dry soil, mainly Brachypelma, and am not sure if this T is right for me. With that being said:
a) It seems the defensiveness of this T can be all over the place based on what I read. I also read they can be really fast. Would you consider this a good intermediate species in terms of difficulty or this this more of an advanced level species?

b) How do you all prevent fungus/mold in an enclosure that requires constantly moist sub?

c) If fungus or mold does occur, how do you deal with it considering the T depends on moist conditions? Mold and fungus is something I have like no experience with since I keep all my other Ts bone dry.


Worst case, she was given to me by a family member and I could potentially return her if she does not end up being a good fit for me. The person that gave her to me thought it would be a good step up from my current Ts in order to gain more experience with faster and more moisture dependent Ts. She is a beautiful T, but I tend to be a worry wart.

View attachment 416017 View attachment 416018 View attachment 416019 View attachment 416020 View attachment 416021 View attachment 416022

1. Personally I would get something taller with less ground space. My e murinus loves to dig and will make a sort of turret and dig deep into the substrate.
2. I wouldn’t use that enclosure to me it looks more like a terrestrial then a fossorial enclosure.
3. They seem to except I wide range of temperatures she should be fine
4. Adequate ventilation will prevent mold. Moist substrate is not to difficult to achieve just make Shute the substrate is dark and it’s not wet. It’s important that your enclosure is not wet.
5. Mine seems very tolerant to dryness and o only wet the substrate once a month.
I personally think that you should give the t the most amount of room to dig.

 

[jrh3]

The one I had was a digging maniac, full fossorial. Had a neat little entrance hole that was webbing and sphagnum moss it formed together. It had massive tunnels all throughout the substrate.

I would definitely give it more deep substrate with the bottom layer moist. Mine was skittish and crazy.

 

[joossa]

Thank you all for your responses and advice. I am feeling better having all this info. Appreciate it.

Seems a bit mixed in terms of leaving her or moving her into something with deeper sub. I'm going to tentatively leave her as-is as I "get to know her" a bit better. If I start noticing she is skittish or defensive, I will definitely rehouse into a more classic fossorial enclosure with tons of dirt. So far, she has been very calm and not bolty when I have opened the lid. I will keep calm and keep using caution moving forward, though. I'm actually going to try to feed her tonight. We'll see how that goes.

Also, very good to know they will tolerate sub drying out a bit or sub that could be a on the drier side.

Man she’s gorgeous!! Makes me jealous!!

1.) was she defensive with not having a burrow when trying to take these photos?
-ventilation looks fine but I might personally add a little bit more.

3.) as opposed to what? Is this the same temps all your tarantulas go through?


Don’t worry about fungi, fungi are actually a good sign that your soil is not unhealthy. Mold also is not harmful. You can spot clean mold, and you can allow portions to dry out from time to time like you see yours is not totally moist all over.

4.) I think you could take keeping this on!! If it’s overly skittish and defensive now it may just need to be re set up to be more fossorial. If it’s not maybe it can be left as is but how it’s set up with nowhere to retreat to I am not a fan of. It makes maintenance difficult.

Also I’d get a nice size water dish in these ASAP.

She has not been defensive or skittish when I have opened the enclosure. She actually didn't even move when I opened it last night to take those pics. This is consistent with how her previous owner described her.

I have two T rooms: a main one where it only gets to 80/81F in the day and a walk-in closet where I keep my slings for faster growth. The walk-in gets to 85/86F for several hours in the day. I have space in there and was thinking of putting her in there. The higher temps, may make her more hyperactive/skittish, though, LOL.

Thanks about the fungus comments. I likely overthinking the topic.

Will be adding a larger water dish.

Do be aware that since it didn't burrow, when you open the enclosure youre basically intruding into its "burrow" and it will be much more defensive/skittish than if it had burrowed.

Yep, that is what I read from several older posts and on Tom Moran's podcast. I obviously want to avoid her bolting out of the enclosure, but she seems calm thus far.

I would say that if it was so inclined, the T could be out of that enclosure in a blink, because they are really quick.

This is what I am most worried about!

Unusual for sure but as others have said, there’s no point rehousing if it has laid down web and seems happy enough. Funnily, I randomly took some photos of my E. murinus’ set up last night. Much like @NMTs, mine has also made a turret of sorts and has webbed all throughout and down the sides of the enclosure. Only recently have I started seeing some surface webbing.

Mine is very skittish but opts to suck itself into its burrow rather than out, which I can’t complain about! I do wonder how skittish and defensive yours may be if it doesn’t have somewhere to retreat to… and yes, they’re prone to bolts of speed so it is something to be aware of. Overall though, low maintenance and the substrate is kept moist but I have heard of some acclimatising theirs to dry, more successful in captive bred individuals (which is most).

View attachment 416051 View attachment 416052 View attachment 416053

Beautiful T and helpful info! Thanks!

Here's the mound that mine has made. It goes sideways because it used the starter burrow I made for it under the cork bark, but still a pretty nice bit of work.

View attachment 416087

You can also see in this pic that the tunnel goes all the way down to the bottom (kind of).

View attachment 416088

Even though they are fossorial and quick/skittish, this is still one of my favorites species. I would be overjoyed to come by one like you have @joossa. Enjoy it!!

Nice!

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

Thank you all for your responses and advice. I am feeling better having all this info. Appreciate it.

Seems a bit mixed in terms of leaving her or moving her into something with deeper sub. I'm going to tentatively leave her as-is as I "get to know her" a bit better. If I start noticing she is skittish or defensive, I will definitely rehouse into a more classic fossorial enclosure with tons of dirt. So far, she has been very calm and not bolty when I have opened the lid. I will keep calm and keep using caution moving forward, though. I'm actually going to try to feed her tonight. We'll see how that goes.

Also, very good to know they will tolerate sub drying out a bit or sub that could be a on the drier side.



She has not been defensive or skittish when I have opened the enclosure. She actually didn't even move when I opened it last night to take those pics. This is consistent with how her previous owner described her.

I have two T rooms: a main one where it only gets to 80/81F in the day and a walk-in closet where I keep my slings for faster growth. The walk-in gets to 85/86F for several hours in the day. I have space in there and was thinking of putting her in there. The higher temps, may make her more hyperactive/skittish, though, LOL.

Thanks about the fungus comments. I likely overthinking the topic.

Will be adding a larger water dish.


Yep, that is what I read from several older posts and on Tom Moran's podcast. I obviously want to avoid her bolting out of the enclosure, but she seems calm thus far.


This is what I am most worried about!


Beautiful T and helpful info! Thanks!


Nice!

You honestly shouldnt have a problem with her bolting out, feeding and watering only require a small amount of space to be open. I only see problems with a potential rehouse/spot cleaning if mold grows.

 

[Smotzer]

She has not been defensive or skittish when I have opened the enclosure. She actually didn't even move when I opened it last night to take those pics. This is consistent with how her previous owner described her.

I have two T rooms: a main one where it only gets to 80/81F in the day and a walk-in closet where I keep my slings for faster growth. The walk-in gets to 85/86F for several hours in the day. I have space in there and was thinking of putting her in there. The higher temps, may make her more hyperactive/skittish, though, LOL.

Thanks about the fungus comments. I likely overthinking the topic.

Will be adding a larger water dish.

Well then I think you are good to leaving her be in there for the time being!

I don’t think she’s need to be in the sling room, and yeah it will increase activity so it’s up to you!

And yeah no worries a lot of people overthink it! You’re welcome!

 

[Tarantuland]

Set up looks fine, you can add springtails or isopods to prevent molt. Just make sure to remove feeders, but in my experience peat moss isn't super susceptible to mold. Congrats, that's an awesome spider

 

[thedragonslapper]

Lucky dude. I would love one of these.