Emperor Scorpion Availability?

[TheJarl]

So I've been looking into getting a scorpion for a couple months now and I'm pretty set on getting the P. imperator. The issue is I can't seem to find them in stock anywhere reputable online. I also don't know of any breeders nearby and the idea of my local pet shops having a scorp of any kind is Laughable. I've been watching the classifieds and looking for expos that will be in reasonable driving distance to mixed results. I guess I'm just looking for advice on how to proceed, I don't want to be waiting on an out of stock scorpion indefinitely or order a emperor and get sent a asian forest scorpion. Any advice would be greatly appreciated maybe I've overlooked something but I genuinely feel kinda stuck. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Poonjab]

They are getting harder to come by. Check breeders in the classifieds here.

 

[Dry Desert]

So I've been looking into getting a scorpion for a couple months now and I'm pretty set on getting the P. imperator. The issue is I can't seem to find them in stock anywhere reputable online. I also don't know of any breeders nearby and the idea of my local pet shops having a scorp of any kind is Laughable. I've been watching the classifieds and looking for expos that will be in reasonable driving distance to mixed results. I guess I'm just looking for advice on how to proceed, I don't want to be waiting on an out of stock scorpion indefinitely or order a emperor and get sent a asian forest scorpion. Any advice would be greatly appreciated maybe I've overlooked something but I genuinely feel kinda stuck. Thanks in advance guys.

There is nothing wrong with Asian Forests, I have a large group myself. I kept Emperors a while back and sold them all. Asians look very similar to Emperors , a large Asian can be the same size as an Emperor. Asians don't burrow to the extent Emperors do, the are happy under rocks or logs in shallow burrows. Emperors have the nick name of pet holes because they burrow so much and rarely come out when settled and content. Asians have more "character" than Emperors which makes them more active. I think they are great scorpions, as I said, I sold all my Emperors several years ago, never wanted any since.

 

[Tarantuland]

There was an export ban on Emperors- pandinus imperators, now they're really expensive and uncommon. Asian forest are way more popular these days and look really similar, heterometrus species- usually h silenus in the hobby I think. Chances are, if you buy an "emperor" from anyone who didn't breed it themself, you're going to be sold a mislabeled heterometrus. You can find both in the classifieds here, but one will be 10-20$ and the other is $60+ typically

 

[LizardStudent]

I have a personal preference of emperors over Asian forests, although I will admit both are nice scorps and I keep both. I am currently trying to seriously breed emperors and have my hands on a few, but agree they are getting harder to come by and I have watched the prices continue to tick up. They are not impossible to find though, and you can occasionally find them on morph market labelled correctly, plus I would expect more to be available online during spring/summer. If you can, try to look at an expo

 

[goliathusdavid]

Agree with everything that has been said in this thread, but just wanted to recommend settling for an Asian Forest, which I love. Unless you can get a certified captive bred specimen (from someone extremely trustworthy like Josh's frogs or another seller you know and trust) I would not buy Pandinus imperator. Despite the CITES legislation designed to protect this species (which is what has resulted in the rarity and increased prices) smuggling still persists. If you are determined to have an Emperor, be extremely careful who you are buying from (like REALLY know your seller) and be willing to pay. Otherwise, go for a Heterometrus species.

 

[Stacy737]

You can order one from the breeders in the classifieds here. My local petco lets customers order invertebrates, Emperors for example, with a 30 day health guarantee. Other pet stores have a 5 day health guarantee, but Dictator scorpions are commonly mistaken.

 

[Scorpiobsession]

You can order one from the breeders in the classifieds here. My local petco lets customers order invertebrates, Emperors for example, with a 30 day health guarantee. Other pet stores have a 5 day health guarantee, but Dictator scorpions are commonly mistaken.

I would recommend buying from the classifieds. I would strongly recommend NOT buying from a chain pet store, they usually buy them imports and when they are in possession of the animal they don't give it proper care. Also never buy a "Dictator" from anywhere except trusted breeders. Many Emperors are commonly sold as Dictators.

 

[TheJarl]

Agree with everything that has been said in this thread, but just wanted to recommend settling for an Asian Forest, which I love. Unless you can get a certified captive bred specimen (from someone extremely trustworthy like Josh's frogs or another seller you know and trust) I would not buy Pandinus imperator. Despite the CITES legislation designed to protect this species (which is what has resulted in the rarity and increased prices) smuggling still persists. If you are determined to have an Emperor, be extremely careful who you are buying from (like REALLY know your seller) and be willing to pay. Otherwise, go for a Heterometrus species.

I will definitely keep a look out and be careful of that . rest assured that I am not the type to knowing purchase any animal wild caught legally or otherwise

 

[Crom]

Agree with everything that has been said in this thread, but just wanted to recommend settling for an Asian Forest, which I love. Unless you can get a certified captive bred specimen (from someone extremely trustworthy like Josh's frogs or another seller you know and trust) I would not buy Pandinus imperator. Despite the CITES legislation designed to protect this species (which is what has resulted in the rarity and increased prices) smuggling still persists. If you are determined to have an Emperor, be extremely careful who you are buying from (like REALLY know your seller) and be willing to pay. Otherwise, go for a Heterometrus species.

Legal shipments of thousands have came in the past couple years from farms in Congo, also possibly Northern Cameroon and Nigeria. Also a whole bunch of them have came in "legally" as P. dictator, which I can assure they are not, but which is also listed along with imperator as CITIES protected. So the idea of labeling them differently to get them in the country is a bit strange. Either way, a ton have came in recent years, just not from the original protected countries of Ghana, Togo and Benin. Tho I would agree, ALWAYS better to buy captive bred. The problem is, who's breeding them...?

They can likely be found at a petco in your area, they sell them labeled as "Dictator Scorpions" which is a incorrect ID, but they've been goofing that for years and haven't changed it. I even talked to the wholesaler they get the "dictator" from to let him know they're actually imperator, didn't change lol... they could maybe order one for you if there isn't one in stock

 

[LizardStudent]

Want to add another comment to this thread - there are people breeding these currently, they just take FOREVER to be ready to sell. An example, <edit> is in the process of breeding these and has several gravid females, but their gestation period can be 9+ months, and then once born you have to wait several more months for them to leave their mother and go through a few molts to be hardy enough that you're not selling someone a fragile infant, or sending one through the mail. So it's not so much an issue of no one is currently breeding them, but that the select people who are have to wait a very long time to be able to sell, and when they can the demand is high

 

[Dry Desert]

Want to add another comment to this thread - there are people breeding these currently, they just take FOREVER to be ready to sell. An example, <edit> is in the process of breeding these and has several gravid females, but their gestation period can be 9+ months, and then once born you have to wait several more months for them to leave their mother and go through a few molts to be hardy enough that you're not selling someone a fragile infant, or sending one through the mail. So it's not so much an issue of no one is currently breeding them, but that the select people who are have to wait a very long time to be able to sell, and when they can the demand is high

Around 10 years ago when P.imperator was first put on the CITES list, it obviously became rare. As with any "rare" or restricted importation animal people start breeding big time. Now here in the UK you can pick one up for £60/75 sterling - thats around $55/60 - and the price is comming down.they were once around £180/200. There are still a few advertised at that price from shops that sell mainly fish or similar, but obviously not selling.

 

[Collin Clary]

Around 10 years ago when P.imperator was first put on the CITES list, it obviously became rare. As with any "rare" or restricted importation animal people start breeding big time. Now here in the UK you can pick one up for £60/75 sterling - thats around $55/60 - and the price is comming down.they were once around £180/200. There are still a few advertised at that price from shops that sell mainly fish or similar, but obviously not selling.

I want to address this because it gets said a lot, but it's actually very inaccurate as to why they stopped being imported and prices shot up.

P. imperator, P. dictator, and P. gambiensis have actually been CITES listed since 1995. This is not what caused them to be rare in the pet trade. Brachypelma are also CITES listed for example, and are very prevalent in the pet trade. Until a few years ago P. imperator were as well. It's actually relatively easy to get a CITES permit to import/export listed species.

What happened was that there were concerns of over collecting in Ghana, Togo, and Benin, and thus it was recommended that exportation bans be put in place for those countries. Now they're being exported out of the Congo (it remains unclear if they were actually collected there though). A couple years ago there actually was an assessment of scorpion ranches in Togo, which found that the practice was relatively sustainable. So we may see more coming in at some point.

 

[Dry Desert]

I want to address this because it gets said a lot, but it's actually very inaccurate as to why they stopped being imported and prices shot up.

P. imperator, P. dictator, and P. gambiensis have actually been CITES listed since 1995. This is not what caused them to be rare in the pet trade. Brachypelma are also CITES listed for example, and are very prevalent in the pet trade. Until a few years ago P. imperator were as well. It's actually relatively easy to get a CITES permit to import/export listed species.

What happened was that there were concerns of over collecting in Ghana, Togo, and Benin, and thus it was recommended that exportation bans be put in place for those countries. Now they're being exported out of the Congo (it remains unclear if they were actually collected there though). A couple years ago there actually was an assessment of scorpion ranches in Togo, which found that the practice was relatively sustainable. So we may see more coming in at some point.

The only ones coming now are Captive Farmed ones from the Congo .Due to extensive captive breeding in UK/ Europe mainly, and the ever increasing paper work requirements, and the purchase price coming down all the time, i don't think importers/dealers will bother to import. As stated above here in the UK captive bred young are being advertised by private sellers for £60.00 with dealers selling them for £75.00 - why would anyone want the hassle of export/import restictions when most indivual buyers want captive bred anyway.There may be dedicated breeders that may , in future, require wild caught for gene pool purposes, these will always be sourced- one way or another.