emperor killer

mcy

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before i got into tarantulas i decided to start off with emperor scorpions so i bought 2 and kept them in the same cage. The smaller one is very aggressive but the bigger one is more docile. I recently tried adding a 3rd to their setup which was huge by the way.. there was probably room for 20 more of them but they ended up killing the new addition any idea why?
 

Mark Newton

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A burrowing species from Africa.,...How many would there be in one burrow?? Seriously doubt this is a naturally communal species. Amazing the two tolerate each other...wait until one becomes gravid and see how long you have two alive.
 

EAD063

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A burrowing species from Africa.,...How many would there be in one burrow?? Seriously doubt this is a naturally communal species. Amazing the two tolerate each other...wait until one becomes gravid and see how long you have two alive.
There are most likely papers regarding that issue or else it would not be such a widely distributed notion. I do have a few pandinus papers but I have yet to read them in they're entirety.

EDIT: You can't import species like that they're can you Mark? Or am I mistaken?
 

Mark Newton

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EDIT: You can't import species like that they're can you Mark? Or am I mistaken?
No...our conservation legislation doesnt allow inverts to come in. Those that have wreaked havoc. The result of long term island isolation.
 

mcy

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these two have lived together for about half a year now if they reproduce i wouldn't mind.
 

EAD063

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That is unfortunate. I think the boards see so much death with them is because they are so widely distributed. I'd safely guess that anywhere between 85 and 95% of the scorpion forum has kept them, and being such a novice species, they are often grouped together as opposed to the less common species which are usually housed seperately. In my expirence same gender pairs have prevailed over mixed sex groups. I'm sure I do not speak for everyone but I've never had a same sex group of pandinus or heterometrus cannibalize.
 

thisgal

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If they're going to reproduce, it won't be until they both reach maturity. Of course, you'll need a male and a female...:wall: ...do you know their genders?

The reason they killed the new guy is probably because they felt threatened. New emps need to be introduced gradually to prevent this aggression. You should have started by placing the new scorp into a clear container small enough to fit inside the future home, so the other two scorps could "greet" the new guy and get used to him.

You say there was room for twenty more of them? Exactly how big IS this cage?! I hope you're not living in it, too! {D The general rule of thumb is to have AT LEAST five gallons PER adult. Also, when introducing a new guy, you should add a new hide for that one. You may end up removing it when they all end up sharing, though. :D
 

Mr. Mordax

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To Mark, my male and female seem to prefer sharing the same burrow. I'll give them extra hides but they all wind up living in the same one. The male hates people but doesn't show any aggression to the female.

Edit: I agree with the "paced" introductions. I saw a post on here where after introducing another emperor to the tank there was immediate aggresstion, but everyone calmed down after the owner broke up the fight.
 

H. cyaneus

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Thisgal, several people keep 3-4 adults in a 10 gallons without problems. Also, it could be quicker to rearrange the entire container so that there is no territories.

Mike
 

quiz

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I keep 4 emps in 20 gallon tank (2.2.0) and never had a problem with them. The only time I seen 2 emps fighting (1.1.0) is when they're enclosure is heated really high (over 30C degrees I think). After I broke up the fight by blowing on them, I never seen it happen again but the male stayed hidden all the time :? . It's been a year now and I've only seen him 5-6 times:confused:
 

mcy

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they were in a giant tub that was more wide and long than tall.... it had a lot of floor space i had to put it under my bed i could have had like 20 adults in there. I just recently put them in a 5 gallon with 2 hides... they are always in the same one :rolleyes:
 

skinheaddave

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For a discussion of communal behaviour in Pandinus and Heterometrus, there are two relevent chapters in "Scorpion Biology and Research" edited by Polis and Brownell. It has been a while since I've read them, but the long and the short of it is that yes, P.imperator is naturally communal. What isn't natural is the sort of random throwing together of specimens from the pet trade. Burrows are comprised mostly of related females and develop naturally, with long-established familiarity.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Mark Newton

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For a discussion of communal behaviour in Pandinus and Heterometrus, there are two relevent chapters in "Scorpion Biology and Research" edited by Polis and Brownell. It has been a while since I've read them, but the long and the short of it is that yes, P.imperator is naturally communal. What isn't natural is the sort of random throwing together of specimens from the pet trade. Burrows are comprised mostly of related females and develop naturally, with long-established familiarity.

Cheers,
Dave
Thanks Dave. Looks like I dont read enough on international species. No wonder they tolerate each other as much as they do if they coexist in burrows in the wild, that is pretty amazing. Do you know if this is just a family situation or are they unrelated individuals in the burrows. I know many scorps will tolerate each other as juveniles, but not as adults.
 

skinheaddave

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As I remember it, it is centered around family, with related females getting along better with each other and with their young. I'll have to re-read those chapters at some point.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Thaedion

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A burrowing species from Africa.,...How many would there be in one burrow?? Seriously doubt this is a naturally communal species. Amazing the two tolerate each other...wait until one becomes gravid and see how long you have two alive.
I have a gravid female that did chase out (so I removed them) all the other scorpions (I had 3 in a 10 gal) I also have a 20 long that housed 4 (now 3, 1 gave birth) I had 1 more hide than scorpions but they all chose to share a single hide. Granted these are forced communities.

For a discussion of communal behaviour in Pandinus and Heterometrus, there are two relevent chapters in "Scorpion Biology and Research" edited by Polis and Brownell. It has been a while since I've read them, but the long and the short of it is that yes, P.imperator is naturally communal. What isn't natural is the sort of random throwing together of specimens from the pet trade. Burrows are comprised mostly of related females and develop naturally, with long-established familiarity.

Cheers,
Dave
I like the point Dave makes about throwing in random 'catches' from the pet store into a single tank, I had 4 in a community, 1 gave birth (sooner than expected) so I had to quickly relocate some scorps. I took a single out of a 10g put it in the 20l and put the mother in the 10g. the single took aggression at all 3 so I had to put it in another empty tank. So familiarity seems to play a big part in a passive community.

As I remember it, it is centered around family, with related females getting along better with each other and with their young. I'll have to re-read those chapters at some point.

Cheers,
Dave
I don't have the book that Dave quotes, but found this about H. fulvipes that single burrows soon can become 'family nests'...PDF LINK



Cheers Thaedion
 

Michiel

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No...our conservation legislation doesnt allow inverts to come in. Those that have wreaked havoc. The result of long term island isolation.

That's perfectly understandable, you guys down under are still busy fighting:

Rabbits
Cane toads
European carp
etc
etc........


too bad for you, that's for sure.....Australia even has a quotum for humans.....
 
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