EMERGENCEY-ANYBODY PLEASE- my jumping spider is; reverse pressurised???

[AmazingNature]

EMERGENCEY-ANYBODY PLEASE- my jumping spider is; reverse pressurised???
i check my spiders everyday when i wake up /afternoon/at night before lights out/and extra visits in between
ive raised over 50 in last 2 years never seen this
So the day before yesterday (she is adult) she was on her back
( i thought dead)
i turned her over gave her via tweezers h2o/food etc
but now her legs are going stiff-pointing BUT pointing upward!! like if someone was being robbed 'reach for the sky")
its mostly the front 2 or 3 on each side
the middle ones are close to the body
she is quite saly moving her mouthparts and middle legs sporadically
she does try to move if i lightly touch with qtip-or the light intensity changes
i know i dont do it often-it causes stress-only to see if she is still alive on during a quick look/check while doing other life crap

what is going on?
has anyone seen this before?
know the cause???

Possibly... bacteria? heat? to much humidity? etc etc
(it got very sunny by the window she was near yesterday-the sun in my windows moving because of time of year
BUT the jumpers around in same/area/ and type of enclosures seem fine)

So its been 2 days; she continues to try to move
Can i do something/anything to help her?
?to reduce the pressure/fluid thing ...
IDK crazy ideas/amounts would be crazy hard to asses but....i have on hand ..antibiotics-.ibuprofen,tylenol-tramadol-anything ?
(someone suggested elsewhere poppytea for suffering
i dont like to see her like this
whats best way to put to sleep which is a hard call
-fridge.... then freezer Ive seen seems 'humane'
THANK YOU 2 THOSE WHO TRY TO HELP!!!!

 

[Smotzer]

Sounds like It was trying to molt and it sounds like you disturbed that process and likely it won’t make it now

 

[CRX]

Yeah, bad move to mess with a spider like that. You moving it with tweezers won't help anything, even if its dying.

 

[NMTs]

Sounds like It was trying to molt and it sounds like you disturbed that process and likely it won’t make it now

Yeah, bad move to mess with a spider like that. You moving it with tweezers won't help anything, even if its dying.

I've only got one little jumper sling, so I'm not very experienced with them, but each time mine has molted it has been in a little web hammock it's made near the top of it's cup - and that's really the only way I've read about or seen them molting. Do any of them actually make a molting mat and molt on their back on the ground like T's do? If I'd seen my little jumper on his back at the bottom of his enclosure, I wouldn't assume it was molting, either.

OP - is this jumper a mature, adult specimen? Could it just be reaching the end of it's life? As far as euthanizing should it come to that, the freezer is one option that is supposedly painless, but the quickest way is physically smashing it (sounds brutal, but it's true).

 

[AmazingNature]

Sounds like It was trying to molt and it sounds like you disturbed that process and likely it won’t make it now

Yeah, bad move to mess with a spider like that. You moving it with tweezers won't help anything, even if its dying.

I hope someone see's this before commenting below as if idk anything
i see some peolple assume and others run with comments as if its fact
clarification;
as far as jumpers
ive raised them for 3 years and had 50 ata a time that i raised all from babies/hatch
this mid summer I released over 15 adults all with 80# each newly hatched slings back to the wild
it was not molting it is well past last molt
as far as mentioning tweezers;
this is common practice for rehabing spiders
I FED her with/using tweezers-
meaning tore mealworm in half-and put juicy bit under her mouth
same with qtip and water
ive never poked-picked up by abdomen,etc etc a spider
the qtip i pull into a frine strand and lighlty touch a foot,non sensetive part-
i know better than to stress an unwell anything by pokeing or prodding /moving it
ive done work with pygmy sperm whales/birds of prey/raptors etc etc

 

[Smotzer]

I've only got one little jumper sling, so I'm not very experienced with them, but each time mine has molted it has been in a little web hammock it's made near the top of it's cup - and that's really the only way I've read about or seen them molting. Do any of them actually make a molting mat and molt on their back on the ground like T's do? If I'd seen my little jumper on his back at the bottom of his enclosure, I wouldn't assume it was molting, either.

OP - is this jumper a mature, adult specimen? Could it just be reaching the end of it's life? As far as euthanizing should it come to that, the freezer is one option that is supposedly painless, but the quickest way is physically smashing it (sounds brutal, but it's true).

Some do up higher, a species here in Texas molts at ground level up against a rock. The OP said “jumping spider” so that more than ambiguous and quite broad so there’s not really anything any of us can say. To me It was either about to molt or was poisoned by some type of pesticide, some cause inverts to flip on their back as they die

 

[AmazingNature]

Some do up higher, a species here in Texas molts at ground level up against a rock. The OP said “jumping spider” so that more than ambiguous and quite broad so there’s not really anything any of us can say. To me It was either about to molt or was poisoned by some type of pesticide, some cause inverts to flip on their back as they die

thanks for the reply-9idk where molt crept in comments above,im pretty sure i stated she was adult)
ll go back up andlook at my post
but yes adult-close to end of life
its just i have had many over 3-4 years die of old age
but nothing like this im curious/as well as alarmed etc
i will post pics if i can find my phone data cord to pc

To everyone I replied to etc-im not being cross or snide whatever- im about to overshare alert!! im over 50 so no keyboard whizard
takes me forever
i cant type very fast
anytime i explain more about something-facts-pertinent info to me at least
the few times i do post anywhere/anything
it seems those posts dont get very many reads/replies
And I get it..no one has all day
p.s. also an unplanned medication change has me with wicked migrain
so a sincere 'please forgive/dont hold it against me' to all/anyone if i came off sounding ...bad?

i turned her over meaning i flattend a cotton ball and made like a dog bed and gently rolled her onto it like moving a person from one hospital bed to another

ok forget what i did-what should i do..
But because it is/was one of the reasons for the post....lets try....
HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS BEHAVIOR BEFORE AND KNOW THE CAUSE?

Please no jokes at Tallulah's expense (thats her name)
I am genuinley horrified by what she is going thru and feel helpless
I could see this being meme -able if it was by choice/defense posture but something is wrong
and I feel so bad-she moves(tries too rather feebley) when she sees me/when I check on her

she has been this way for 3 days now-is alive can move her mouth,tries to move her middle legs etc /responds to changes in light etc
i found her on bottom of enclosure legs under her
up righted her-gave half mealworm which I had to hold under her mouth the tore open end
and then after some 'sugar in the raw' unprocessed sugar and h20 on a q-tip
which revived her a bit
then, IT began...
Her legs slowly began rising, starting with the front 2.
Being then followed by next 2 behind them over many hours.

I'm not an expert on hemolymph or spider musculature/hydraulics anatomy etc. but from what little I do remember
It seems that some sort of 'pressure' issue is going on here?
edit-found this in a science paper-kinda confirmation of the obvious but...

"The extent of internal pressure depends on the level of activity (Anderson and Prestwich, 1975). Indicators of high internal pressure in spiders are erectile leg spines,"

Please; has ANYBODY ....
seen this before?
or ...have any ideas?
how to try to treat, or minimize things for her?
I've been wracking my brain for ideas like
I don't know if putting her in the mini fridge at 50 degrees to slow her down like a coma/recover type thing to heal or what
I've actually done this 2 times
(a couple hours each) thinking she would 'go to sleep' and then I would put her into the freezer to be sure.

but she is alive each time!
Her will to live is there.
that's what gives me hope-albeit very small that she could 'recover'
i just hate to put her down when she is clearly alive and I can't help her
I've considered anti-inflammatory etc, antibiotics, but don't know enough,
and getting the amount correct would be insane
but this just may serve as a way (as hard as it is for me to even think/say/contemplate)
(case study) for the greater good -
to help anyone in the future esp. if eases suffering/symptoms
meaning; trying some well-intended treatment(s)...suggestions please
Basically, even though I probably won't,
(Attempt treatments esp id like to hear any ideas and why)
as the thinking behind your idea(s) might help me figure out what's going on in the 1st place

any suggestions besides the obvious,
(euthanasia)
this can't go on much longer it's too much to witness, Esp. her attempts to move

she is 3rd generation captive born/raised so I don't see how it could happen but;
anyone know of a parasite that causes this action?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I have seen this exact thing in two spiderlings of the tarantula being sold as Theraphosinae "Mega Carapace." I really wish I took pictures of it, because it was the strangest thing I have ever seen, but it looked exactly like the pictures here. I never could figure out what caused it, but the ailment resulted in their deaths. There was nothing I could do about it. Seeing this, apparently the illness isn't specific to a specific type of spider. No other tarantula in my collection had developed the same symptoms before or after the two that had it, so I don't think it is a communicable disease. I did separate the two sick spiderlings from the rest of my collection as soon as I saw the symptoms, just in case, but I don't know if the separation prevented the spread.

 

[AmazingNature]

I have seen this exact thing in two spiderlings of the tarantula being sold as Theraphosinae "Mega Carapace." I really wish I took pictures of it, because it was the strangest thing I have ever seen, but it looked exactly like the pictures here. I never could figure out what caused it, but the ailment resulted in their deaths. There was nothing I could do about it. Seeing this, apparently the illness isn't specific to a specific type of spider. No other tarantula in my collection had developed the same symptoms before or after the two that had it, so I don't think it is a communicable disease. I did separate the two sick spiderlings from the rest of my collection as soon as I saw the symptoms, just in case, but I don't know if the separation prevented the spread.

Sincerely thank you so much for replying...
it makes me feel a bit better someone cares enough to share whatever they know.
'Non nobis solum'
Sadly, it seems most don't wish to comment, or at least even speculate for whatever reason.
But I did just post it so;

That I/we may learn more.

 

[spigy]

Sincerely thank you so much for replying...
it makes me feel a bit better someone cares enough to share whatever they know.
'Non nobis solum'
Sadly, it seems most don't wish to comment, or at least even speculate for whatever reason.
But I did just post it so;

That I/we may learn more.

I doubt that if someone saw this thread and knew something they wouldn't comment. But usually people are pretty careful on here about not commenting on topics they don't know about. I've never heard of this happening before, but I'm relatively new to the hobby (still been keeping P audax for nearly a decade, though).

I know (and I'm sure you do too) when spiders get extremely dehydrated their legs curl under because there isn't enough pressure for them to move properly. Maybe there's been some sort of internal damage to cause the extreme opposite when you've rehydrated her? It does seem like there would need to be a ton of pressure to force a spider's legs up like that. I wonder if she's having issues relieving herself? Does her abdomen seem particularly swollen?

I'm so sorry about your spider.

 

[AmazingNature]

I doubt that if someone saw this thread and knew something they wouldn't comment. But usually people are pretty careful on here about not commenting on topics they don't know about. I've never heard of this happening before, but I'm relatively new to the hobby (still been keeping P audax for nearly a decade, though).

I know (and I'm sure you do too) when spiders get extremely dehydrated their legs curl under because there isn't enough pressure for them to move properly. Maybe there's been some sort of internal damage to cause the extreme opposite when you've rehydrated her? It does seem like there would need to be a ton of pressure to force a spider's legs up like that. I wonder if she's having issues relieving herself? Does her abdomen seem particularly swollen?

I'm so sorry about your spider.

just added-Sorry this is so long-I got carried away-read on if you dare-ha ha

Thank you for responding, yes, I re-read my post/reply about that statement
and realized that most don't want to comment on something this specific/unknown etc.
If only to not give wrong advice

I guess it's me being stressed and feeling bad-unable to help her
(And unable to decide best course of action)

Oh! and its hard to say, meaning her abdomen looks about 'normal'
but
that is one thing
a blockage at the other end so to speak/whether waste evacuation or eggs
That I hadn't considered but momentarily initially;
which now seems so obvious now that could be playing apart-
THANK YOU
this is the sort of thing I was hoping to see/hear...
ideas as it gives me another topic to research
i.e. if this has ever been observed in those cases-
I guess however one would know or determine that (being eggbound etc)
was the specific issue

Sometimes I question keeping/ living things for the obvious reasons-quality of life etc.etc.
But also because of the depression it causes me when they pass.
Sorry to say so much,
seriously though,
thanks again for taking the time to respond.
and for your condolences about Tallulah's plight
It really DOES make a difference.

 

[CRX]

I hope everything works out OP, and you're at least able to get a solid answer as to what this is. Sorry its happening.

 

[AmazingNature]

I hope everything works out OP, and you're at least able to get a solid answer as to what this is. Sorry its happening.

thank you so much, I am actually right now emailing specialist everywhere i can find them, I'm really wanting to find an explanation or at least probable cause

 

[The Snark]

thank you so much, I am actually right now emailing specialist everywhere i can find them, I'm really wanting to find an explanation or at least probable cause

Include Crawford, Vetter and Jaeger at Senkenberg.

 

[AmazingNature]

OK! Thanks I assume those are arachnologists-is that the word idk lol I will search them

that's an intimidating site-I'm not sure how/what department to try any ideas if you have them

 

[CRX]

that's an intimidating site-I'm not sure how/what department to try any ideas if you have them

Its okay, some of his posts confuse me too lol but thats because he has so much knowledge.

 

[The Snark]

that's an intimidating site-I'm not sure how/what department to try any ideas if you have them

Its okay, some of his posts confuse me too lol but thats because he has so much knowledge.

Senkenberg? Dr. Peter Jaeger is the arachnologist among other things. Send him short concise questions and he usually answers. Approach him as you would any professor emeritus at a university.
Vetter: https://biocontrol.ucr.edu/image/rick-vetter
Rod Crawford, Burke Museum. Main focus is Pacific northwest arachs: https://staff.washington.edu/tiso/

 

[AmazingNature]

hey thanks for the specifics, I guess I won't bother them though.
I believe now based on a facebook post-and some stories/pix/video provided
that it was a result of a fall.
she was old, lost her grip claws, couldn't climb good and her end situation i.e. legs facing up/stuck etc;
all matched
most likely swelling internal damage causing pressure.
Most peoples spiders all died as result within hours or days

but one lady replied with an interesting string of images/vid (her name in the facebook post/reply section is-)
Aga Siwczyńska
she has one though that survived; eventually amputating one front leg and a short while after the other.
she submitted pix and vids one taken that day where she has just removed her other front leg
This is a current situation, with video. you want to browse that page and drop down replies-,

And on another note; if interested in spider behavior
I also in a reply to someone named
Sherri Bible
and posted 1st video I've ever posted ;
its a tiny flea jumper tending her nest's and then near end of video going inside one,
they use sticks etc to camouflage them though I haven't found anything written online about this behavior, at least yet though-

*heads up also-
if you watch the flea jumper video it doesn't look much on a phone-
at least go fullscreen
I'm on my big screen tv monitor-
the vid is a bit wonky but worth watching the whole way to observe behavior;
read my reply about/above the post to sherri of the vid when i posted it
it kind of gives hints what to watch for in the vid and stuff to watch out for like fruit fly etc for size compare
to get a sense of size for the spider
such as her nest to the bottom right of stick covered in bits of wood she goes inside near end of video
ok sorry for the book


UPDATE and CONCLUSION

Based on replies I received on face book, along with pix and vids;
I tried to post link here so people could see the pix and vids it wouldn't let me,
my pix of incident in my original post I deleted from phone
and don't know how to move them here
from original post so people can see what I'm referring to here in this post


So as a result of those replies-I believe my jumper suffered a fall and as a result internal damage and thus the swelling


***if your spider is ageing out-moves slower/less eating/slips-can't climb as well...
****PLEASE... remove any sticks decorations that they may fall from; and have an impact on floor of habitat.
This is what I think happened.

I now have moved her similar aged siblings, with same difficulties (they are passing away over last month)
into smaller enclosures with sticks no more than an inch off the floor/across the bottom
I also put soft material on the floor to provide cushion/example in one very small acrylic box; I put a folded in half face mask with cotton balls inside the 2 half's-
quite soft now.

I've noted (after raising 6 eggs of hatchlings to full adults/then paired released this mid-summer)
except for 10 holdbacks
that even though they can't climb well/and slip they still 'feel' the need too-try to climb
I believe it is for safety to get up and hide esp. Since they 'know' are aware they are more vulnerable in aged condition-
plus, possibly also the continued climbing could also be curiosity they like to explore

I'd like to use moss or something, but logistics prevent that-
any ideas for a soft/fall 'safe' substrates are welcome...
*Some ideas-but all have different issues-
cheap oats-cotton balls-? ?
*yoga mat foam or similar, like toolbox liner stuff etc.
(maybe best for cleanability-and cut able to size)
I'm going to attempt this and will report back?
somewhere lol..after a week of use




I hope this helps to prevent this horrible situation to other animal/spider lovers

 

[Nomad177six]

I know this thread is almost a year old but how about bubble wrap as a good cushion on the bottom of an enclosure for older spiders who may fall. It's soft and easy to cut into any shape you need and it would be easy to take out and wash whenever needed because it's just plastic.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I know this thread is almost a year old but how about bubble wrap as a good cushion on the bottom of an enclosure for older spiders who may fall. It's soft and easy to cut into any shape you need and it would be easy to take out and wash whenever needed because it's just plastic.

That’s something I wish I had thought about , lost a aboreal c versicolor t because it fell out of its tube web post molt like 5+ years ago . Same thing for jumpers also aboreal could help either . Was a short container too not a far fall , .. about tall deli cup size.