Dying Citharischius crawshayi

[kitty_b]

she's ignoring the free meal. she also won't stay over the water dish when i try to position her over it.

sometimes she seems to be standing on her own, other times she is laying on the ground. she isn't showing any signs of a death curl anymore, but she rests her body on the ground and sort of stretches her legs out (but not in the cute "post-molt stretch" sort of way).

i don't know if i have the nerve to pick her up and hand-feed her so she can put some weight on. i'm such a wuss

 

[Cirith Ungol]

Great to hear about some improvement.
I'd certainly keep one end of the ICU dry, since CCs have a hard time with all to much moisture. Is the ICU well ventilated? Are you keeping it in the dark?

I think you should at least try to pick her up to have a look on the underside.

 

[kitty_b]

the icu is a small rubbermaid container with several rows of ventilation holes near the lid. i keep it covered with a towel to keep light out.

i just got up the nerve to pick her up and try to hand-feed her. after a lot of prodding with the roach, she bit down on it. but when i stopped holding it, she dropped it. i tried again, and she used her fangs to push it out of her mouth. she really has no interest in food. she tries to flail when i pick her up, but she's so weak that she can't do much.

 

[Cirith Ungol]

the icu is a small rubbermaid container with several rows of ventilation holes near the lid. i keep it covered with a towel to keep light out.

i just got up the nerve to pick her up and try to hand-feed her. after a lot of prodding with the roach, she bit down on it. but when i stopped holding it, she dropped it. i tried again, and she used her fangs to push it out of her mouth. she really has no interest in food. she tries to flail when i pick her up, but she's so weak that she can't do much.

So I assume the fangs are ok, otherwise you would have mentioned that. Did you notice anything else? Were the booklung openings looking normal?

 

[kitty_b]

i didn't notice anything abnormal on her at all. fangs were black and appeared to be able to articulate normally. i heard them sink into the roach with the classic "crunch." her book lungs appeared normal, though i didn't perform a close inspection (i was trying not to freak out, lol).

her abdomen is very "wiggly" relative to her thorax, i assume due to lack of plumpness. that made me a little extra weary of doing more harm than good holding her, so i gave up on the roach after a few attempts. the abdomen isn't shriveled, though, just very small.

she just looks completely exhausted. sometimes she'll try to move a leg when disturbed, and it will tremor slightly and then stop moving. it's like she tries to move and then gives up.

 

[Cirith Ungol]

i didn't notice anything abnormal on her at all. fangs were black and appeared to be able to articulate normally. i heard them sink into the roach with the classic "crunch." her book lungs appeared normal, though i didn't perform a close inspection (i was trying not to freak out, lol).

her abdomen is very "wiggly" relative to her thorax, i assume due to lack of plumpness. that made me a little extra weary of doing more harm than good holding her, so i gave up on the roach after a few attempts. the abdomen isn't shriveled, though, just very small.

she just looks completely exhausted. sometimes she'll try to move a leg when disturbed, and it will tremor slightly and then stop moving. it's like she tries to move and then gives up.

Hm...
Something you could try if you feel ready for another feeding attempt is this:
Take a syringe or something that can hold a semi liquid. Mash the abdomen of a roach/crix and put it in the syringe (no needle). If you can press it through the opening and it's quite liquid then you won't need to mix the mash with water, but this way you can try to "force feed" the T, since it can't reject a liquid that has formed a drop around its mouth. Instead it might go to a drinking reflex and subsequently eat some. But that would require you to hold the T for quite a while since drinking is relatively slow. However, one can hope that it will calm down eventually. I'm quite sure you will.

If you don't have a syringe you could try a drinking straw, dab one end into a glass where you've prepared some mash and then drip it onto the mouth with the straw.

 

[kitty_b]

i think that's definitely the next step. i'll probably let her relax for the rest of the day and either try feeding tonight or tomorrow.

i was using the pinch method because she's small (maybe 4" legspan) and i worry that when i cup her i'm going to lose my grip and she'll slip out. at the same time, i worry about the damage caused by prolonged pinching (though i'm trying to be gentle). i'll probably try cupping next time and flipping her onto her back, since all i need to be able to reach is the mouth. it'll also cut down on any stress on her abdomen from being suspended.

my poor girl

 

[Cirith Ungol]

Best of luck!

 

[arrowhd]

You have had more than your share of bad luck. Hope she recovers.

 

[kitty_b]

she's still alive, though weak. i'm going to wait until my husband gets home so he can take pictures while i attempt to feed her. he'll probably make me 10x more nervous doing it, but lots of people seem to want to see what i'm doing.

i re-moistened half of her ICU last night, but she seems to prefer the dry side. she never touched the two pre-killed roaches i left with her.

 

[kitty_b]

she's really going downhill. i tried feeding her roach guts, and she was practically limp in my hand. once she made an attempt to get loose, but i ended up just putting her down before she hurt herself. after several attempts, i couldn't get her to take any of the roach.

she can barely move now. when she can, she tremors/shivers. i've given her a fresh dish of water and put her over it. i can't tell if she's drinking, but she hasn't moved off of it yet.

i just laid on the floor and watched her through the container, waiting for her to move. it hurts so much to see her suffer, but i can't bring myself to give up on her yet.

EDIT: sorry i didn't take pictures. the husband was too busy freaking out.

 

[thedude]

i hate it when Ts randomly die... i hope yours makes it tho

 

[Cirith Ungol]

I'm sad to hear it. And I don't have any more suggestions either now...

 

[kitty_b]

she was death curling again this morning. i think at this point i can't do much more for her. i placed her over water, and she eventually moved away from it.

 

[K MUELLER]

Kitty, sometimes nature takes it's own,no matter what we try. You did everything humaly possible,try not to dwell on it, I have a 1'' baby with your name on it,if you feel up to starting over,let me know,take care-Karl

 

[kitty_b]

she's still not showing improvement. a friend procured a syringe for me and i gave it another shot. she didn't fight back nearly as much this time

i would wait patiently, but she never showed signs of swallowing the mush. i even tried putting a couple drops of water in there to encourage swallowing, but it would only end up dripping onto my hand. after about 10 minutes i decided the stress outweighed any benefits, changed her ICU towels, and put her over a fresh dish of water. we need a crying icon.

forgive the fuzzy photos. my husband was trying to take them but could not ignore the fact that i had a big arachnid in my hand

 

[smof]

Sorry to see this

I seem to remember reading some time about a T possibly failing to shed its stomach lining with a moult. I don't think it was definite but someone had a problem with their T not feeding in spite of the fangs being undamaged. This reminded me of that. It just seems so odd that she is not eating when otherwise she is in normal condition.

I do hope she starts to improve.

 

[MizM]

IMHO, the force feeding will only hasten her demise. Her metabolism has certainly slowed to almost nothing and tforce feeding is extremely stressful. I would simply leave her in the ICU. If you must pick her up, try putting some Cipro and water in that syringe. Is her opisthoma misshapen? (It kinda looks so in one pic.) If so, that's not a good sign, it does happen with nematodes, but if her mouth is clean, I shouldn't think she has that advanced of an infestation.

 

[kitty_b]

IMHO, the force feeding will only hasten her demise. Her metabolism has certainly slowed to almost nothing and tforce feeding is extremely stressful. I would simply leave her in the ICU. If you must pick her up, try putting some Cipro and water in that syringe. Is her opisthoma misshapen? (It kinda looks so in one pic.) If so, that's not a good sign, it does happen with nematodes, but if her mouth is clean, I shouldn't think she has that advanced of an infestation.

i don't think i'll try another force feeding. nothing got in her, and i agree that the stress is going to only make her worse at this point. her abdomen is a bit misshapen, but i believe it's due to dehydration and lack of food rather than infection. her mouth is definitely clean.

the most i bother her for now is putting her over water. if i do pick her up again, it will be to try putting water drops directly into her mouth. but at this point i'm not sure i'd even try that. she's almost completely unresponsive. she lays crumpled in one spot, but isn't in a classic deathcurl.

i know some people feel i should end her suffering, but i'm hesitant to resort to the freezer. i'd rather she pass on her own than at my hands, and i'm hoping that she'll make the decision for herself. if she does go into a full death curl, i will euthanize her.

 

[7mary3]

That's probably the best you can do kittyb, sorry that you've been going through this... i know that it's a huge bummer. I had to do something similar with one of my emps not too long ago. He got into a scuffle with the other emp and started to go downhill fast. I did what I could for him, but eventually wound up euthanizing him when it became hopeless. If she starts to curl, then as you said, it's probably time for the ice box, but until then I can certainly relate to your reluctance to end it on your terms instead of hers.