doggy advice needed

[paul fleming]

Hi all,
Did not realise I could get dog advice here although I have showed pics before.
Anyway,
Have a 1 year old miniature dachshunds and the Mrs. bought a female of the same breed 4 months ago.
Well,the boy is getting interested and we are at work all day so it seems I will have to have one of them "done".
She is far too young to breed and there is no way I can keep them apart for the next 6 to 18 months....lol
What do I do.......him or her to get spayed/neutered ?
Thanks,
Paul
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=171270

 

[skippy]

i'd get them both fixed myself. dog breeding is rather specialized and dachshunds are more prone to poor breeding issues than most. i know puppies are fun but, they're also a ridiculous amount of work.

 

[paul fleming]

i'd get them both fixed myself. dog breeding is rather specialized and dachshunds are more prone to poor breeding issues than most. i know puppies are fun but, they're also a ridiculous amount of work.

They sure are lots of work now so heaven knows what the future holds.
Mrs.wants only one done so what is your advice if it's just one of them ?
The female looks fav. at the moment....we are talking about getting it done pretty soon as well.

 

[Widowman10]

any chance you will have outside dogs near your dogs? for instance, i live in the sticks, and there will be random "visitors" sometimes... just a thought.

 

[paul fleming]

any chance you will have outside dogs near your dogs? for instance, i live in the sticks, and there will be random "visitors" sometimes... just a thought.

No...these are pedigree dogs that cost a fortune so they only go out with us on leads.
There is no chance at all of any outside influence on these dogs.
I understand what you mean though.....especially with the bitch.
Paul

 

[Teal]

I am confused.. why is there no way to keep them separated?

Just crate one or both of them when you can't watch them... and if the male is too interested in her, rotate them when you are home.

I would take her out to potty on a leash (ETA: we posted at the same time - glad to hear you take them out on leash already!), and in an area separate from where the male potties.

I have intact males and females (of same and different breeds) and I have never had an "oops" litter because I keep my dogs separated when it is proper.

If you HAVE to get one or the other spayed or neutered, go with the male... there are more ill effects to spaying a female, especially a young one (including uncontrolled growth plates in the legs and incontinence as she ages) than neutering a male.

 

[skippy]

the male is easier and cheaper to have cut. he'll also heal up faster. on the other hand, the female will attract any uncut males around when she is in heat and you may end up with pups anyway.

i still say it's best to do both for their sake if no one else. they'll likely live longer and be better behaved without any raging hormones. also, they won't bleed on the couch or mark the wall.

 

[skippy]

teal has several points as well.

i avoided the issue by having 3 females that were fixed after 6 months of age. 2 of them are inseparable and the 3rd is a bit of a princess but she gets her paws dirty sometimes too.

 

[Teal]

There is absoutely NO reason to have random dogs impregnanting your female unless you are completely irresponsible. I live in the country, we DO have random stray dogs about... but my dogs are never left outside unattended as it is, and bitches in season are even more closely monitored.

skippy - there is a long debate on the pros and cons of spaying and neutering, and I used to be very pro-spay and neuter. But, after continued research I have switched sides and will no longer be spaying or neutering dogs because I have personally experienced the ill effects that *can* happen from it (such as the uncontrolled growth plates, that ruined my working dog prospect.. and incontinence that began when the bitch was 2 years old - I'd rather have a dog bleed for a few weeks, every 6 months or so than leak urine every time she sleeps.. unfortunately, I made the wrong choice!).

Of course, everyone should do their own research and reach their own conclusion... but that is my personal experience on the matter, that I have reached after owning/training/boarding hundreds of dogs.

 

[paul fleming]

Thanks for the advice all
Probably go and have a chat to their vet soon to see what she says.
Really appreciate the advice ...thank you all again.
Not as clear cut as I first thought after the advice here
Paul

 

[paul fleming]

There is absoutely NO reason to have random dogs impregnanting your female unless you are completely irresponsible. I live in the country, we DO have random stray dogs about... but my dogs are never left outside unattended as it is, and bitches in season are even more closely monitored.

skippy - there is a long debate on the pros and cons of spaying and neutering, and I used to be very pro-spay and neuter. But, after continued research I have switched sides and will no longer be spaying or neutering dogs because I have personally experienced the ill effects that *can* happen from it (such as the uncontrolled growth plates, that ruined my working dog prospect.. and incontinence that began when the bitch was 2 years old - I'd rather have a dog bleed for a few weeks, every 6 months or so than leak urine every time she sleeps.. unfortunately, I made the wrong choice!).

Of course, everyone should do their own research and reach their own conclusion... but that is my personal experience on the matter, that I have reached after owning/training/boarding hundreds of dogs.

My concern has never been any "random" dogs......they only go out with us.
The problem is the older male with her.It is also not that easy keeping them apart and watching them 24/7.
Thanks again skippy,widowman and teal.....appreciated
I think the vet is the next port of call to see what she advises.
I can post back what she says if you guys like ?
Paul

 

[skippy]

teal: of course there can be complications with any type of surgery but was your issue with the procedure itself or with the surgeon that performed it? what i mean is, was the procedure botched in some way or was the loss of hormones to blame?

 

[pitbulllady]

There is absoutely NO reason to have random dogs impregnanting your female unless you are completely irresponsible. I live in the country, we DO have random stray dogs about... but my dogs are never left outside unattended as it is, and bitches in season are even more closely monitored.

skippy - there is a long debate on the pros and cons of spaying and neutering, and I used to be very pro-spay and neuter. But, after continued research I have switched sides and will no longer be spaying or neutering dogs because I have personally experienced the ill effects that *can* happen from it (such as the uncontrolled growth plates, that ruined my working dog prospect.. and incontinence that began when the bitch was 2 years old - I'd rather have a dog bleed for a few weeks, every 6 months or so than leak urine every time she sleeps.. unfortunately, I made the wrong choice!).

Of course, everyone should do their own research and reach their own conclusion... but that is my personal experience on the matter, that I have reached after owning/training/boarding hundreds of dogs.

I'm with you on this one, Teal. In over 30 years of breeding dogs-and that is breeds like American Pit Bull Terriers, Catahoula Leopard Dogs, Carolina Dogs, Akitas and wolves-I've never had an "oops" litter. I never had an unplanned litter, and I had multiple dogs. I never, ever had a male dog neutered, because I never NEEDED to. I did not have behavioral issues with them because my dogs knew who was in charge. Yes, I had dog-aggressive dogs, and the worst offenders were females. I simply knew to keep those dogs separated from others, to rotate excersise times. Bear in mind that these were outdoor dogs, for the most part, not small house dogs. I can understand spaying a female who is either not intended for breeding, or whose breeding days are over, to avoid having stray male dogs(or coyotes)hanging around or to avoid having a mess in the house if it's an inside dog, but I never could see any point in neutering a male. There is a lot of evidence that neutering a male dog can have some pretty serious and negative consequences later, especially given that nearly 100% of the cases of prostate cancer in dogs occurs in NEUTERED males. Up to 20% of spayed bitches, and as many as 37% of large-breed spayed bitches, will develop "spay incontinence", or the inability to control their bladders, at some point in their lives. I never had a dog die prematurely as a result of not having been "fixed". 99% of dog behavioral issues are a matter of training, socializing and exercise, NOT hormones. While I am not totally in agreement with "The Dog Whisperer", Cesar Milan, I do watch his show, and I've noticed that by far the majority of dogs he is called upon to help are neutered/spayed dogs, often former shelter dogs, yet they are still out of control, and aggressive behavior towards humans and/or other dogs is by far the most common problem. That should be a clue that neutering is NOT the "magic button" to solve all doggie behavior problems that the AR people and the vets who buy into their rhetoric would have it to be.

If these Dachshunds were my dogs, and I had no intention of breeding the female, I'd spay her once she was a year old or so, and leave the male as-is.

pitbulllady

 

[Teal]

teal: of course there can be complications with any type of surgery but was your issue with the procedure itself or with the surgeon that performed it? what i mean is, was the procedure botched in some way or was the loss of hormones to blame?

The issue was not with the surgeon, but with the surgery.. like pitbulllady said, it's not uncommon.

I have never had an actual complication arise from a spay surgery, or a neuter... and I used "clinics" that did it for low cost, not even my regular vet (because I wasn't shelling out $300 per foster dog when it was, tops, $100 at the clinic).

paul - it really IS that easy to keep them apart and watch them, when you get into the routine. I have been doing it for years, and I barely even notice it now. It SOUNDS like a hassle, and for someone who has never had to do it it can be intimidating at first... but really, it's easy. Personally, I would get over the 'laziness' of thinking that it's so hard, rather than risking the health of either of my dogs by altering them.
If your eyes aren't on the dogs - separate them. Crates are an amazing tool!

 

[<3exoticpets]

From a medical view

Hi! I know that I am new to posting on the boards, but have been viewing regularly for quite some time. I finally decided to register, to post a reply for this thread. I really value the opinions of the people in this forum for caring for my tarantulas and hope to continue learning. As a veterinary technician I am happy to hear you are planning to consult with your veterinarian for advice on your current question. As far as a debate on spaying and neutering go, I am not looking to do that, however I would like to point out medical issues that can result of keeping a pet intact, in the event that that are not being used for responsible breeding (or irresponsible- but here, that is not the case!). For a female dog, spaying helps to prevent mammary gland tumors and reproductive cancers, especially if done before the pets first “heat” cycle, as well as prevention of a pyometra (uterine infection), which can ultimately be fatal. For male dogs, neutering can decrease the odds of prostate cancer and testicular tumors, as well as some behavioral issues. If a pet is not being used to breed, those are problems which you can help to prevent. As far as cost goes, it is cheaper to neuter your male, however, treating a pyometra (for a female) can cost up to $1200, and you are lucky if your pet survives that ordeal, and yes, it does happen. Think about the cost of treating prostate or female reproductive cancers. I am not saying that money is an issue, but if a pet is not being used for breeding, it can impact quality of life. As far as “spay incontinence” (not being able to hold urine), yes, sometimes that does happen, as with any surgery, on any pet or family member, there may be a risk involved. I am hoping to have just opened your mind from another point of view

 

[paul fleming]

Hi! I know that I am new to posting on the boards, but have been viewing regularly for quite some time. I finally decided to register, to post a reply for this thread. I really value the opinions of the people in this forum for caring for my tarantulas and hope to continue learning. As a veterinary technician I am happy to hear you are planning to consult with your veterinarian for advice on your current question. As far as a debate on spaying and neutering go, I am not looking to do that, however I would like to point out medical issues that can result of keeping a pet intact, in the event that that are not being used for responsible breeding (or irresponsible- but here, that is not the case!). For a female dog, spaying helps to prevent mammary gland tumors and reproductive cancers, especially if done before the pets first “heat” cycle, as well as prevention of a pyometra (uterine infection), which can ultimately be fatal. For male dogs, neutering can decrease the odds of prostate cancer and testicular tumors, as well as some behavioral issues. If a pet is not being used to breed, those are problems which you can help to prevent. As far as cost goes, it is cheaper to neuter your male, however, treating a pyometra (for a female) can cost up to $1200, and you are lucky if your pet survives that ordeal, and yes, it does happen. Think about the cost of treating prostate or female reproductive cancers. I am not saying that money is an issue, but if a pet is not being used for breeding, it can impact quality of life. As far as “spay incontinence” (not being able to hold urine), yes, sometimes that does happen, as with any surgery, on any pet or family member, there may be a risk involved. I am hoping to have just opened your mind from another point of view

Thank you
That is just what we were thinking.
Another option is having them both done......what do you thgink about that ?
Of course nothing will be done until a full consultation takes place with their vet.
Welcome to the boards and look forward to reading you future threads and posts by the way.
Thank you again,
Paul

 

[pitbulllady]

Hi! I know that I am new to posting on the boards, but have been viewing regularly for quite some time. I finally decided to register, to post a reply for this thread. I really value the opinions of the people in this forum for caring for my tarantulas and hope to continue learning. As a veterinary technician I am happy to hear you are planning to consult with your veterinarian for advice on your current question. As far as a debate on spaying and neutering go, I am not looking to do that, however I would like to point out medical issues that can result of keeping a pet intact, in the event that that are not being used for responsible breeding (or irresponsible- but here, that is not the case!). For a female dog, spaying helps to prevent mammary gland tumors and reproductive cancers, especially if done before the pets first “heat” cycle, as well as prevention of a pyometra (uterine infection), which can ultimately be fatal. For male dogs, neutering can decrease the odds of prostate cancer and testicular tumors, as well as some behavioral issues. If a pet is not being used to breed, those are problems which you can help to prevent. As far as cost goes, it is cheaper to neuter your male, however, treating a pyometra (for a female) can cost up to $1200, and you are lucky if your pet survives that ordeal, and yes, it does happen. Think about the cost of treating prostate or female reproductive cancers. I am not saying that money is an issue, but if a pet is not being used for breeding, it can impact quality of life. As far as “spay incontinence” (not being able to hold urine), yes, sometimes that does happen, as with any surgery, on any pet or family member, there may be a risk involved. I am hoping to have just opened your mind from another point of view

You NEED to read THIS, as you are very wrong about neutering preventing or even reducing the incidence of prostate cancer in dogs. You've fallen for, and are repeating verbatim, the standard AR line, which is intended to make everyone feel horrible and guilty about leaving an dog's natural body parts intact, to further their animal-extinctionist agenda. If someone wants to spay/neuter, fine. It's their dog. BUT there is considerable evidence that the procedures can and often do carry long-term risks. In male dogs, especially, the long-term risks of neutering outweigh any benefits.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

pitbulllady

 

[paul fleming]

You NEED to read THIS, as you are very wrong about neutering preventing or even reducing the incidence of prostate cancer in dogs. You've fallen for, and are repeating verbatim, the standard AR line, which is intended to make everyone feel horrible and guilty about leaving an dog's natural body parts intact, to further their animal-extinctionist agenda. If someone wants to spay/neuter, fine. It's their dog. BUT there is considerable evidence that the procedures can and often do carry long-term risks. In male dogs, especially, the long-term risks of neutering outweigh any benefits.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

pitbulllady

I appreciate all input but the final decision will be made by myself and the Mrs......after a long chat with the vet.
If we do have one done.....it will be the bitch but we are are still thinking about Teals idea of trying to separate them and leave her intact.....until her first litter anyway.
How will I know when to separate them.........when to put him in his crate ?

 

[<3exoticpets]

As stated previously, I was not looking to debate, just offering a professional opinion, as there are two sides to most stories. I have not seen that article previously and did a search, however did not find it discussed on veterinary related websites, but many breeder sites. I did state that any surgical procedure does not come without some risk associated, but there can be positive aspects to having your pet altered. As with learning here from many people who have owned tarantulas long before e, with any pet issue it is best to research your information and make an educated decision. If it were a harm to spay and neuter animals the people who get trained to work with them would not be recommending it- most of us did go to school because we are very passionate and truly to care about animals, I can say that for myself.

 

[Exo]

Of course there will be a debate, this is AB, and nobody agrees on anything!