DKS Theory?

[Shaka]

Hi everyone. Myself and a few local breeders here in South Africa have had a few sudden deaths of adult spiders due to DKS-like symptoms, these deaths have not occurred right after a molt but instead have happened mid cycle for these now dead adults. It's winter for us here, and although nowhere near as cold as the winter in the USA or UK etc., we've had a lot of load shedding (power cuts to save our mis-managed-monopoly-holding-energy-provider by our stellar government) and we don't use central heating, so if power is out, it gets really chilly inside our houses and for many of us we can't afford to keep heating the house so our spiders sometimes have no choice but to pull through the cold, we just do our best to make sure they never go below dangerous temps with heating pads.

I had a heat pad next to an Adult MF GBB which was going on and off through all these power cuts over a number of weeks. Suddenly I noticed this Girl wasn't looking so hot... I placed her in ICU immediately and any movement or disturbance was met with wild leg swinging and attempts to flick urticating bristles but the rear legs were nowhere near the abdomen and just flicking wildly all over the place just like DKS. Within a day she was dead.

So my theory is simple, many of us have warm rooms or keep T's inside our houses where temps are pretty stable (especially in the US, UK etc where central heating is the norm.) but have we not known or realised that extended, sudden or constant fluctuations in temperature (just like with fish and even us... I mean we die of pneumonia from that sort of thing lol) are giving our T's the flu / DKS.

Usually in my experience, symptoms of DKS are seen immediately post-molt (please correct me here if it's been seen completely randomly), and perhaps if the Tarantula is exposed to the elements for longer than usual due to a long slow molt and while it's still soft, weak and vulnerable - they are somehow affected internally and DKS is the result?

Any thoughts here? I hope this doesn't sound completely balmy...

 

[cold blood]

out, it gets really chilly inside our houses and for many of us we can't afford to keep heating the house so our spiders sometimes have no choice but to pull through the c

Cant afford to heat your homes?...maybe ts arent the right choice of pet. IMO if one cant afford basic heating, they probably shouldnt be adding new animals....no offense intended.

we just do our best to make sure they never go below dangerous temps with heating pad

Heat pads can be dangerous if they are in direct contact....ts gravitate to heat, and can get very dehydrated....dehydration is one thing known to cause such symptoms.

Suddenly I noticed this Girl wasn't looking so hot... I placed her in ICU immediately and a

Putting a GBB in an ICU is akin to trying to kill it...these are arid adapted species, too much moisture can kill them.

I reccommend never ever using an ICU, theyre just a terrible idea most if the time.

So my theory is simple, many of us have warm rooms or keep T's inside our houses where temps are pretty stable (especially in the US, UK etc where central heating is the norm.) but have we not known or realised that extended, sudden or constant fluctuations in temperature (just like with fish and even us... I mean we die of pneumonia from that sort of thing lol) are giving our T's the flu / DKS.

Temp fluctuations are normal literally everywhere ts live. Id suspect heating methods or contamination from an outside source....perhaps the area has been sprayed by plane or something.

in my experience, symptoms of DKS are seen immediately post-molt (please correct me here if it's been seen completely random

Nope, such symptoms have no preclusion for when or where in the cycle the animal is.

Its the result of an outside source.

Sometimes such sources can be pinpointed...often they cannot.

 

[Andrea82]

'Gbb' is quite resilient to temperature changes, they come from a desert/shrubbery habitat where temps fluctuate wildly within 24 hours. They're a hardy species, their only 'Achilles heel' is too much moisture and not enough ventilation. An ICU is exactly that.

If you are experiencing a lot of 'DKS' - cases you may want to check your local government institution to check if there has been a county-wide pest control campaign going on.

DKS is not an illness in itself though. It's more of a description of symptoms that usually occure when some sort of poison or contaminant is involved. Pest control, flea/mite treatment for other animals are often the culprit.

 

[nicodimus22]

I placed her in ICU immediately

So, you placed a GBB (a tarantula that requires a very dry environment) into an ICU (an extremely wet environment.)

Why did you think this was helping? I'm just trying to go through the thought process here.

 

[Vanessa]

The only time I have ever heard of individuals suffering from DKS symptoms due to temperatures - it's been an extreme overheating scenario and never as a result of being too cold. Many species are better equipped to endure lower temperatures than they are to endure extremely high temperatures.
There has only been a couple of times that I have heard of tarantulas basically being cooked, and have then gone on to display DKS symptoms, and the individuals were not freshly moulted.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

DKS/Dyskinetic Syndrome isn't a real thing, there's no mystery disease/syndrome that causes tarantulas to spaz out to death.

The legit medical term for jerky/uncontrolled movements is dyskinesia, dyskinesia can manifest in tarantulas for a number of reasons, these include extreme dehydration, poisoning, impaction, internal parasites, and possibly bacterial infections.

I'm betting on extreme dehydration causing the dyskinesia and the ICU finishing it off.

 

[Shaka]

@cold blood
As mentioned, we live in South Africa, we're mostly warmer than your USA Winters so we don't even have central heating built in to our homes. Also unless you've lived with it, you have no idea what load-shedding is about. You have no idea how constant and extended power cuts affect us and the challenges it presents us in our daily lives, let alone hobbies. Unless you're suggesting that all Tarantula hobbyists in South Africa should just stop keeping or Breeding tarantulas? Whether you meant offence or not, commenting that T's are not the right pets for us is quite disappointing from you. We do what we can and we do quite well.

Re: Heating Pads. This is an advanced topic. We're not talking to beginners here, we know how to use a heat pad safely.
Re: ICU. You've never used a dry ICU? Why do you assume the ICU was wet? Again, we're not talking to beginners here?

@nicodimus22 I have no idea why everybody assumes an ICU is a wet environment? You can set-up a Dry ICU or a wet ICU, use what applies to the observed ailment or species??

@The Grym Reaper I didn't say it was a mystery disease/syndrome. I'm suggesting that something other than the causes you've mentioned can also be added to that list, being a sudden change in temperature. Do you have some documentation or scientific proof to validate the dyskinesia causes you have claimed above? I would love to read more on this, please send links to any facts if you have.

What I'm talking about here is a sudden shift in temperatures. From hot to cold and vice versa. This needs to be explored. Not shot brushed aside like a newbie question. If this can be proved as a direct cause of DKS symptoms the same as outside influences like poisons etc, I think we've learned something and can caution other hobbyists.

Thanks to all the responses so far and apologies if I don't gel with some of them but this is simply an exploratory idea. I will continue to do some research on this regardless.

 

[PidderPeets]

I will argue against the theory about sudden temperature drops causing DKS symptoms with my own experience. A few winters back my house lost power during a snow storm for a few days. The first night, it went from low 70s in my room to mid 50s before I was able to get all the spiders in temporary enclosures and into insulated bags with heat packs. I had 20+ spiders at the time, and while that might not be much compared to a breeder, not one of them suffered any ill effects from that rather sudden drop in temperature.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I didn't say it was a mystery disease/syndrome.

Yet you keep using the acronym DKS.

DKS = Dyskinetic Syndrome

The term "Dyskinetic Syndrome" is a misnomer

DKS symptoms

There are no "DKS" symptoms, the condition itself is a symptom.

Saying "DKS symptoms" is akin to me saying I've got Tussis Syndrome because I developed a random cough.

I'm suggesting that something other than the causes you've mentioned can also be added to that list, being a sudden change in temperature.

Temperature drops would just cause the spider to go "dormant" and eventually shut down/die as the metabolism slows to a standstill, the only way temperature rises would trigger dyskinesia is if they caused dehydration (rather than just outright cooking the spider).

Do you have some documentation or scientific proof to validate the dyskinesia causes you have claimed above?

The only scientific literature on "DKS" I've encountered is a paper by a vet whose fella is in one of the UK tarantula groups I'm in, the full paper is hidden behind a paywall and the abstract basically goes over outdated information or information we already know, and tells me nothing useful.

I compiled a thread based on both my own experiences of tarantulas exhibiting dyskinesia and the observations of other keepers over many years by trawling through everything I could find on the subject. That basically covers the causes and which treatment options may be effective based on those causes.

Dyskinesia in tarantulas

I've personally witnessed dyskinesia as the result of dehydration (caused by failure to moult the sucking stomach) and as the result of internal parasites (a WC A. avicularia with nematodes).

Many cases of dyskinesia seen in tarantula groups either improve or clear up altogether when the afflicted spider is adequately hydrated.

I've seen cases in impacted tarantulas (although these are rare as impacted tarantulas usually present different symptoms).

It's common knowledge that many chemicals/pesticides attack the nervous systems of invertebrates.

The only cause listed above that I'm not 100% on is bacterial infection (although it is more than likely a legitimate cause).

 

[Olan]

I’ve only ever heard of an ICU being a Tupperware with wet paper towels. What is a dry icu? A Tupperware with dry paper towels? That doesn’t seem like it would be helpful either, but at least it wouldn’t be anathema to an arid species.

 

[Andrea82]

I’ve only ever heard of an ICU being a Tupperware with wet paper towels. What is a dry icu? A Tupperware with dry paper towels? That doesn’t seem like it would be helpful either, but at least it wouldn’t be anathema to an arid species.

A dry ICU is worthless imo, unless maybe the original enclosure is swamped for whatever reason.

 

[ColeopteraC]

@Shaka... This entire predicament is simply the result of poor care and lack of foresight...

1: Heatmats are not reccomended, they are designed for reptiles who bask in hotspots to maintain a healthy body temp and can be dangerous if T’s come into contact with them, they aren’t particularly efficient either...
Either purchase a space heater to cover for your lack of heating or stop keeping tarantulas.Did you not consider this before purchasing animals from a tropical environ?
2: As previously stated DKS is an acronym covering symptoms caused either by a result of contaminants entering your T’s enclosure (do you use any air fresheners? Where do you get substrate and live food from? has your government been using aerial spraying as a pest control measure? etc.) or shoddy care. Again... Surely you payed mind to this before deciding to keep any insect or arachnid?

There is no ‘theory’ or explanation to cover for what seems to simply be a lack of foresight and decent care. I’d recommend you pay close attention to the feedback you will receive in this thread and make drastic changes to your husbandry method if you wish to keep your tarantulas alive and healthy.

If you find yourself incapable of providing these needs I’d recommend you stop keeping tarantulas in order to prevent further loss of life... Period

 

[omni]

sounds like a localized contamination like an insecticide or herbicide. I would look about your neighborhood for insects and other animals that eat insects like lizards, geckos, etc and notice if you do not see many or find dead specimens. maybe even capture a few different ones to observe for a week or 2. this may give clues to what happened.