Dispelling the myths associated with A. robustus and Phoneutria perpetuated by the media scare

[Outpost31Survivor]

A team did, yes. Or rather multiple assistants. Just accessing patient medical records is usually a long tedious process. But things are probably streamlined down there. As stated, low health system performance.

Could you explain " Local pain, edema, erythema, sweating and piloerection for Phoneutria bites and absence of systemic manifestations with identification of the spider for Loxosceles bites."

Absence of... do they mean once Loxosceles is excluded?

These are symptons that can fall under mild envenomations. In adults, symptons are usually more progressive than they are in children. Mild envenomations will see only local symptons, moderate envenomations will involve systemic symptons BUT are not considered life threatening unless it progresses to severe life theatening symptons. Moderate envenomations can be treated with symptomatic supportive care and/or serotherapy usually successfully with a zero rate of fatality. Children with their small mass will always receive a much more dangerous higher concentration of venom than adults can. Plus, their medically significant spider and scorpion envenomations can go from "0 to 60" that is progress from mild symptons directly to life threatening severe symptons. I reiterate, both adults and children envenomations usually progress through or will cease under different clinical manifestations. These clinical manifestations are markers that determine whether the envenomation was mild, moderate, or a severe potentially life threatening one. But remember it is usually more progressive in adults e.g. mild symptons may or may not prelude moderate systemic symptons which in turn may or may not prelude severe life threatening symptons.

In the prior study:

5 had no symptons at all (probably dry bites)

403 had only mild (local) symptons

12 local and moderate non-life threatening systemic symptons

2 had severe life threatening symptons, (1 death)

An odd mixture of lay person and clinical terminologies. " Life-threatening spider bites, with profuse sweating, drooling, lavish vomiting, priapism, shock and/or acute lung edema for Phoneutria bites, and characteristic lesion plus clinical manifestations and/or laboratory evidence of intravascular hemolysis for Loxosceles."

Life-threatening spider bites, with profuse diaphoresis, salivation, compulsive emesis, priapism, shock (Systemic assumed?) and/or acute pulmonary edema ...........................

Common predictive signs and symptons that may prelude and/or indicative of a severe potentially life threatening envenomation.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Here is an educational video with the host interviewing a surviving victim of a Phoneutria bite. But what it fails miserably to do is consult a physician who has treated Phoneutrism and oh yeah by no means interview any of the greater number of victims that receive harmless mild bites from Phoneutria that did not require any antivenom treatment (Brazil treats both moderate and severe envenomations with antivenom). This kind of bias contributes to the sensationalism of Phoneutria lethalness.

The greater frequency of moderate cases in old patients may reflect a lower tolerance to the autonomic disturbances triggered by the venom. That the only two severe cases of envenomation occurred in children less than 5 year-old suggest a dose-related effect based on the lower body surface area [sic. body mass] of these individuals. To date, ten deaths attributed to Phoneutria spp. have been reported in Brazil, but in only two of these cases were sufficient details provided to allow comparison with the present series of patients.

In most patients, the common complaint of local pain was treated symptomatically, with good results. The low number of cases requiring antivenom therapy (2.3%, mainly children with systemic manifestations) suggests that the criteria established for determining the need for antivenom are indeed adequate.

In conclusion, accidents involving the genus Phoneutria are common
in the region of Campinas, with the highest risk groups being children under 10 years of age and adults over 70 years of age. Cases of serious envenomation are rare (0.5%).

Once again, I am not diminishing the proven indisputable evidence of the medical significance of the genus. Neither am I promoting free handling and/or carefree reckless husbandry. I never want handle one or be bitten by one. But the spider is getting a bad reputation in the media considering Brazil has only 15 confirmed deaths attributed to Phoneutria in 120 years or that there have only been 10 deaths in 7,000 recorded bites.

 

[The Snark]

This kind of bias contributes to the sensationalism of Phoneutria lethalness.

Pure click bait. The Youtubers are getting more sophisticated, using advertising gimmicks. Startled expression, leading caption, dramatic background image. Might as well be watching commercial TV programs. Blatantly obvious the program is only there to draw people to the advertisements or garner clicks, not to inform. I quit watching commercial TV in the early 1990s. Never been inclined to sit there slobbering on myself while concerted efforts are being made to program my thinking.

As Frank Zappa lucidly put it,
I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I'm the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me, yet?
I'm the slime oozin' out
From your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help, no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

 

[darkness975]

Pure click bait. The Youtubers are getting more sophisticated, using advertising gimmicks. Startled expression, leading caption, dramatic background image. Might as well be watching commercial TV programs. Blatantly obvious the program is only there to draw people to the advertisements or garner clicks, not to inform. I quit watching commercial TV in the early 1990s. Never been inclined to sit there slobbering on myself while concerted efforts are being made to program my thinking.

As Frank Zappa lucidly put it,
I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I'm the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me, yet?
I'm the slime oozin' out
From your TV set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help, no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

Actually Clint Laidlaw is one of the better channels on YT. I was going to link that same video but was beaten to it.

 

[The Snark]

Actually Clint Laidlaw is one of the better channels on YT.

Is my prejudice showing? I suppose I should cut slack. It's just the resorting to advertising gimmicks. Taints or stains the goal to inform.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?” - Douglas Adams,

Or it's my disgust at the incredible number of sheeples stampeding about these days? Lesson learned, apologies extended, to both you and @Outpost31Survivor
Another quote from Mr. Zappa. People don't look good wearing brown lipstick.

 

[darkness975]

Or it's my disgust at the incredible number of sheeples stampeding about these days?

Probably this. I understand the lack of faith because there are so many channels that are clickbait garbage that sensationalize everything for the sake of clicks.

Tom's Big Spiders, Clint Laidlaw, and Jack's World of Wildlife are three that I watch the most because they are down to earth and factual. They don't do the whole "coyote peterson" malarkey.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Actually Clint Laidlaw is one of the better channels on YT. I was going to link that same video but was beaten to it.

Yeah, there is epidemic of zootubers that represent the worst of the hobby and they are only in it for the money. I found this video lacked a fair, even, and balanced reporting. It would have been nice if they had ended the piece with an expert guest preferrably with an epidemiological viewpoint or Clint himself shared real statistics. We don't know how dangerous the bite actually was only that Brazil uses antivenom for both moderate (systemic with non-life threatening manifestations) and severe (systemic with life threatening manifestions). The same goes with countries throughout the whole world some will use antivenom for both moderate and severe scorpionism. But most will only use antivenom for severe envenomations preferring to rely upon symptomatic supportive care for moderate envenomations.