Did we poison our spider friends?

[Orava]

So, a week or two back I was at a summer cottage with some friends. It's on a small, 1235 square meter island. No running water, no electricity (although nowadays there is a freaking solar panel and a 300w inverter...), and a <edit>load of spiders. So much so that we call it the Spider Island.

This year has been a craaazy mosquito year (until like a week ago, when they just disappeared), so in order to spend time outside without going anemic, we used various repellants:

A Thermacell, which vaporizes prallethrin
These grees spirals that burn and release smoke and pyrethrin
A topical spray containing icaridin

One night, I noticed on the porch table a spider, clearly not okay. It was spasming, and didn't really react to stimuli (gentle prodding), by other than maybe spasming more. When flipped on it's back, it didn't try to correct itself. I kept an eye on it for an hour or two, no change. It looked rather agonising, and I even considered euthanasy, but then decided against it. Then I noticed another one, this one even worse. Its state was nearing catatonia, with the occasional spasm. Gentle prodding seemed to incite some more spasming. I was going to sleep soon, so I made little enclosures for both of them, such that in their current state they couldn't get out, but if they got well, they could just climb out.

The next morning, the first spider (Sam Pider), was pretty much back to normal. Maybe a little subdued, but able to walk, and be near his (or her, how do I know) normal, arachnic self.

The second one, however, was dead. R.I.P. Otto Jalkanen. I cremated his body later that day.

So, my question is: did we accidentally poison our friends? Was it the Thermacell? I suspect it was. Prallethin is a neurotoxin to at least insects, so that would fit the symptoms. I think Tukes is planning to ban that thing. Too toxic for bees and fish and such. Shame, the thing works wonders.


As a bonus: a genuine Spider Island Zebra:

 

[DomGom TheFather]

Yes

 

[basin79]

Yes.

 

[viper69]

Yes

 

[Smotzer]

Most certainly you did!

 

[Orava]

Oh no... Imma raise hell next year if the guys wanna use the thing. I will not stand for this. I hope they ban it.

 

[The Snark]

@Orava Might want to look up Pyrethrins

 

[BCscorp]

Eat brewers yeast, get tablets. Makes you taste bad. To repel mosquitoes. Your welcome

 

[LucN]

Mosquito repellent absolutely had an effect. Love that jumper. I see these occasionally prowling the sides of my house. Super cool !

 

[Poonjab]

Yes

 

[Orava]

@Orava Might want to look up Pyrethrins

Oh yeah, the green (not grees) spirals have natural pyrethrin.

 

[The Snark]

Oh yeah, the green (not grees) spirals have natural pyrethrin.

Or synthetic, or a combination of both.

 

[Orava]

Or synthetic, or a combination of both.

At least the box advertises that all active ingredients are natural.

Eat brewers yeast, get tablets. Makes you taste bad. To repel mosquitoes. Your welcome

Oh, didn't know that! I'm going back there next week, so I might try to get some yeast and try it out. I live in a small city where I don't think I'll find tablets, so will probably have to eat yeast powder or make a drink or something. Thanks!

 

[The Snark]

We have those green spirals over here from dozens of manufacturers. Some are legitimate, many are in pirated packages appearing to be a reputable company. They can contain just about any pesticide under the sun inclusive of banned chemicals. Just keep in mind, your health is not a concern of any chemical company, only profits. Profits that in part go to attorney retainer fees to bury any complaint any person has under a mountain of paperwork and legaleeze. There is also a way to register poison A as Poison B by using a Me Too filing when registering the chemical. Such as Chlorpyrifros can be a Me Too of the generic term pyrethrin..

 

[Orava]

We have those green spirals over here from dozens of manufacturers. Some are legitimate, many are in pirated packages appearing to be a reputable company. They can contain just about any pesticide under the sun inclusive of banned chemicals. Just keep in mind, your health is not a concern of any chemical company, only profits. Profits that in part go to attorney retainer fees to bury any complaint any person has under a mountain of paperwork and legaleeze. There is also a way to register poison A as Poison B by using a Me Too filing when registering the chemical. Such as Chlorpyrifros can be a Me Too of the generic term pyrethrin..

I don't think I've ever seen any other than Off! brand here.
Do you happen to know if there is a place one can order known stuff? Or do I have to buy dried chrysanthemum and make some myself? I'm assuming that would be safe enough.

 

[The Snark]

Oh yeah, the green (not grees) spirals have natural pyrethrin.

Do you happen to know if there is a place one can order known stuff?

Or do I have to buy dried chrysanthemum and make some myself?

I'm assuming that would be safe enough.

I had to review all the noise and bullfeathers about this stuff. It's been over 20 years since I was involved in the pesticide game.

Natural pyrethin. It is a powerful neurotoxin. Just because it's pure organic does not make it safe. Also, organic pyrethrins extracted from Chrysanthemums are BSL-4. BioSafety level 4, as bad as it gets, regardless of pure organic or synthetic. It will damage neurons in all animals with long term latent effects - a gift that keeps on giving - neurological degeneration.

It became very popular because of the organic label. Media frenzy stuff. And because of it's popularity it got copied, and pirated - other pesticides marketed as the organic. Much cheaper to copy the packaging of legitimate products and toss in generic toxins that can be purchased by the ton for small change.

The problem with making pyrethrins is the concentrated product is extremely unstable. It should be processed in an oxygen free environment and light still causes it to degrade very quickly. So it must be packaged in air tight individual one use packages that block out all light. (So much for organic. Those packages will be around for tens of thousands of years). Even then it has a relatively short shelf life. It starts losing effectiveness immediately and after a couple of months is mostly inert.
What got me into the pesticide game was some friend of a friend wanted the low down. Mosquito coils individually packaged in light opaque plastic packages. But in tiny letters the packages were marked Made In China. Suspicious. Since then hundreds of brands have hit the market and telling legit from fake will require taking a few samples to a lab and having them run test$$$$.

Pyrethrin shelf life and extended effectiveness is greatly improved by adjuvants, the most common being piperonyl butoxide. This stuff is also a nasty toxin, is inorganic, but extends the effectiveness of pyrethrins from days or weeks on out to years and it doesn't need to be in sealed light proof packages. But all things considered, Piper, a level 3 known carcinogen isn't as bad as the pyrethrin neurotoxin.

So which brand is safe? None. Organic? The EPA, FDA and the USDA all have a say in the matter. Best of luck contacting them and sorting the real deal from those that have their fake certification printed on it.