Defensive behaviour?

[lalberts9310]

Hey all. I have owned a Psalmopoeus Irminia for about 7 months now, this is the second tarantula I have ever owned so I don't particularly have a lot of experience with tarantulas. I have never been bitten, I have even handled some of my friends' tarantulas and never had one incident where aggressive behaviour has been displayed towards me. My Irminia is about an Inch and a half, I handle him almost everyday and I regularly received comments from friends and other tarantula owners that my Irminia is one of the most docile and calmest tigers they have ever seen. Don't know if the reason to that is because he is still a sling. Lately I have been noticing that when I handle my irminia, especially yesterday, he constantly opens his fangs. He doesn't rear backwards displaying it's fangs, but as he runs from my one hand to the other (all feet on the surface of my hand, flat on it's abdomen) he constantly opens his fangs for a second then closes them, after a few seconds he would again open them then close them. Is this defensive behaviour? I can touch him on the abdomen and he would move forwards slowly, so he doesn't try to escape from me, I can take him from his cage without hassle. And since they don't rub their hair from their abdomen, is this opening and closing of fangs while moving forward without rearing a warning display? Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[cold blood]

Omg, do NOT handle your irminia first off, they can be defensive, but at 1.5" its still very young, as it grows it will gain an attitude, no doubt. They are also EXCEPTIONALLY fast, and if it wanted to it could be out of your hands and lost in the blink of an eye...seriously, that quick. Of all the NW t's, psamlpoeous genus is one of the worst for handling, I wouldn't even consider it. While they do have NW venom, its different in that it had properties that can cause significant pain for some time.

Also, if you have had it for 7 months, I'm curious as to its husbandry, I would expect it to bigger than 1.5" as they grow very fast. I have had my irminia for 4 months, it was 2nd instar when I got and its already at 2"....growing slower than the P. cam cousins, but still fairly quick.

Slings are fragile, and I don't recommend ever handling one of ANY species, just not a good idea, and handling any t every day is a bit ridiculous...maybe get a small mammal if you really want to handle that frequently. You could very well be making it impossible for the t to adjust to its enclosure by doing so. A comfortable Psalmopeous will create a web tube, covered in dirt, just getting one out of this tube is an endeavor unto its self, and as you are getting it out daily, I am guessing it hasn't done this, or its improperly housed.

BTW, this species lacks urticating hairs, so it can't rub hairs off its abdomen (as you mentioned)...this lack of hairs is a reason they tend to be aggressive and have stronger venom. And touching his rump will only serve to either get you bit, or have to needlessly chase a bolting speedster.

It would serve you and the t best if you considered this species more like a fish in an aquarium and maintained a hands off approach. While they may be NW, they act more like an OW, treat them as such.

 

[BobGrill]

Hands off bud. This is not a species to be handling.

 

[lalberts9310]

He has two tubes in his enclosure, has a rather big enclosure for his size hehe. So he really is comfortable, he does eat a lot but grows slowly, don't know why. I have read that they have quite an attitude. I am very careful handling him, he never got injured. I know they are extremely energetic, but mine is quite calm. You are right, handling it too much is quite ridiculous, I recently bought him a huge enclosure, will be decorating it tomorrow and move him there, since I won't be handling him if he is showing defensive behaviour, and I do not want to move him later on when he's bigger and faster, so rather take care of it now so he can grow in the bigger one. I feed him 2 to 3 times a week so I don't know why he's growing slowly, but he did molt about 2 weeks ago and grew a whole centimetre. I feed him as often as I can but he refuses food now and then. And I never leave food inside the cage if he has no appetite since I know crickets can injure a tarantula quite seriously. I know they lack urcitating hairs, I have done a lot of research about them the past few months so I know how to take care of my Irminia. He is very well looked after I can assure you that, I also mist his enclosure when needed, about once or twice a week (don't worry I mist FAR away from him), he enjoys it, when I mist he will emerge from his funnel and lie flat on his abdomen on the surface. I do have a cat, I absolutely love animals, I also ride horses and will be buying my own in a couple of months time, and have a few fishies of which one is a red tail catfish. I love all my animals and all of them are happy and well looked after so is my T. Just because owning a T is new to me is the reason I handle it quite often, when I bought him I didn't handled him quite often due to the fact I wanted him to get used to his surroundings, he also has a rock which he can hide under. So my T is very happy, but yes happy until I take him from his enclosure so I will definitely leave him alone from now on hehe. Also he rarely bolts, like I mentioned he is quite calm, and I only touch him on his abdomen if I want to nudge him into the palm of my hand since he is still to small to pick him up otherwise. I can post photos of his tubes if you want, but I'll be moving him to the bigger enclosure tomZ. And I only handle him when he's not inside his tube, when he's inside I leave him alone. Thankyou for the advise, I really appreciate, hopefully he doesn't decide to sink his fangs into me when I move him tomorrow. I'll post photos of his newly decorated enclosure tomorrow, and from there on no more handling and he'll be one happy T, and hopefully will be female when matured.:love:

 

[lalberts9310]

View attachment 130718 View attachment 130718 View attachment 130718

 

[CBickert]

"...has a rather big enclosure for his size hehe." " I recently bought him a huge enclosure, will be decorating it tomorrow and move him there, since I won't be handling him if he is showing defensive behaviour, and I do not want to move him later on when he's bigger and faster, so rather take care of it now so he can grow in the bigger one." "I can post photos of his tubes if you want, but I'll be moving him to the bigger enclosure tomZ."

This seems all wrong to me. You admit he is in a "rather big enclosure for his size" but then you go on to say that tomorrow he will be getting an even bigger enclosure? I'm assuming an enclosure that is meant for when (s)he is an adult size of 5-6".

I personally own a 1.5" P. irminia as well but mine is in a 16 oz deli cup and has webbed the whole thing up with multiple dirt and webbing curtains.
From the photos provided I do not see any webbing from yours.

I know you "love" all of your animals and want the best for them, but I do not think you did any proper research, or else this thread would have not been needed in the first place.

My advice would be to put (s)he in a smaller enclosure. Possibly a 32oz deli cup with a cork bark pice, some fake plants, and a water bowl. This T does not need a hide on the ground like terrestrial Ts do. BUT they will use the substrate to burrow in and create a silk tunnel, especially as slings.

Also part of being a responsible T owner is knowing that this animal you purchased will have to be rehoused. Putting a 1.5" sling in an adult enclosure just because you don't want to deal with it's temperament when it is full grown is not the strategy you want to use. But it is your life and your T do with what you want. Just giving you some words of advice.

 

[lalberts9310]

View attachment 130720 View attachment 130722 View attachment 130719

 

[lalberts9310]

Since you didn't read my my post thoroughly as to WHY I'll be moving him to a bigger enclosure is that he is ALREADY display aggressive behaviour thus I do not want to struggle moving him when he is bigger since they are VERY fast and it would be a mess trying to move him by then so instead I already bought a bigger enclosure a while ago but since I only got to buy the decor recently I'll be moving him tomorrow so he can grow and enjoy his space and surroundings, I have my ways of feeding him so it is of no worries when it comes to feeding him in a bigger enclosure, I struggled to post the remaining photos but they are posted now. And since you should know he is still to small for a water bowl, I mist his enclosure, I already have a water bowl but will use it when he grows a bit more, I know it is an aboreal specie, they live in trees in nature, and yes my experience is far less than yours that is WHY I posted this thread in the first place, so there is no reason for you to be so rude.

---------- Post added 10-11-2014 at 09:37 PM ----------

[/COLOR]Now taking the pictures I also realised he has webbed the inside of the rock.. so yes he likes his rock so why remove it?

 

[CBickert]

Since you didn't read my my post thoroughly as to WHY I'll be moving him to a bigger enclosure is that he is ALREADY display aggressive behaviour thus I do not want to struggle moving him when he is bigger since they are VERY fast and it would be a mess trying to move him by then so instead I already bought a bigger enclosure a while ago but since I only got to buy the decor recently I'll be moving him tomorrow so he can grow and enjoy his space and surroundings, I have my ways of feeding him so it is of no worries when it comes to feeding him in a bigger enclosure, I struggled to post the remaining photos but they are posted now. And since you should know he is still to small for a water bowl, I mist his enclosure, I already have a water bowl but will use it when he grows a bit more, I know it is an aboreal specie, they live in trees in nature, and yes my experience is far less than yours that is WHY I posted this thread in the first place, so there is no reason for you to be so rude, rather give advice in a more respectful manner rather than trying to attack me really, at least my T is happy and I want the best for him. Rather don't reply if you have no nice way to bring your advice to light.

---------- Post added 10-11-2014 at 09:37 PM ----------

Now taking the pictures I also realised he has webbed the inside of the rock.. so yes he likes his rock so why remove it?

I wouldn't anthropomorphize your T. They are not technically "happy" or "sad" but I feel as if your current set up, and especially your larger set up makes for a very stressed T, perhaps one that would not be able to find food or water if needed.

And you just made my point more relevant. You are housing it into a larger enclosure BECAUSE you don't want to mess with its bad temper when it is an adult. If you would have done PROPER research you would have found that this particular T is very fast and aggressive. Maybe you would have found that and decided on a NW terrestrial in the Brachypelma or Grammostola species and would have been more comfortable with that. But your reason for housing in such a large enclosure is irresponsible IMO.

And he "likes" the rock but only the sides. Notice how he is not using the inside of it like a terrestrial will. You will see the same behavior with a branch or piece or cork bark, but it is far better suited to your genus of T.

Also, 1.5" is plenty big for a water bowl. Unless that is of course you already bought a water bowl for when (s)he is an adult and in that case I go back to my original point of irresponsibility and lack or proper research.

I am not trying to be rude, and am trying to give you advice. Take it or leave it (looks like your leave it). I don't feel that I have to sugar coat things for it to be advice.
Any more experience keeps want to chime in and tell me that I am wrong, or maybe add some sugar?

 

[lalberts9310]

But thank you anyway CBickert for your advice though, even if it was a bit harsh I really appreciate it.. that's the reason why I posted here, I want to take good care of my T and what way is better than asking people who has more experience owning a T than me. I'll then keep him in the small enclosure until he is big enough to move to the other one.. in the mean time I'll buy more fake plants etc. Not over doing it though, and I'll only handle him when it REALLY REALLY is necessary. Thanx everyone for the advice.:smile:

 

[CBickert]

But thank you anyway CBickert for your advice though, even if it was a bit harsh I really appreciate it.. that's the reason why I posted here, I want to take good care of my T and what way is better than asking people who has more experience owning a T than me. I'll then keep him in the small enclosure until he is big enough to move to the other one.. in the mean time I'll buy more fake plants etc. Not over doing it though, and I'll only handle him when it REALLY REALLY is necessary. Thanx everyone for the advice.:smile:

I really didn't mean to be rude, and I understand we all have to start somewhere.
I just wanted you to take what I said seriously, hence the tone.

Anyways, I wouldn't rehouse until is has outgrown the current enclosure, and I wouldn't handle..ever lol but that's me and you are you.
Enjoy watching it grow! I know personally I have enjoyed watching my P. irminia grow and rearrange her enclosure.

 

[lalberts9310]

CBickert thankx again for the harsh advice that I will DEFINATELY take to heart, so no need for sugar coating there. As I stated above he webbed the inside of the hide, the upper part of the inside of the hide is coverred in dirt and webbing, the hide was actually to be temporary. I do not have a smaller enclosure at this stage, and since I said I have my ways of feeding him, he doesn't even need to go out and search for his food since I will not leave a cricket in there, I would rather wait until he eats it, I usually drop the cricket right infront of my T and nudge it with a brush towards my T until a few centimetres away and the cricket would run right past my T and my T would grab him.. so yes a rather weird way but it's working and my T doesn't have to stress to find food, and I mist his whole cage, I will go look for a water bowl of smaller size tomZ then, the one I have is a bit too big. And yes maybe I was irresponsible I did not do proper research, I don't mind having T like a Irminia, And I don't mind having to rehouse it later on, I just thought it would be better for my T for rehousing it now, but I'd rather keep it in the smaller one then if it is better that way. And again thanx for the advice, I will make use of it no doubt.:smile:

---------- Post added 10-11-2014 at 10:12 PM ----------

It's okay CBickert, and I do take your advice seriously, I love my t, S/he's beautiful and I love showing him of (with photos obviously), and I already knew that they where a aggressive and energetic specie before I purchased him, the rest of my research was poor. I am up for the challenge, I just don't want to be in the situation of him bolting, or falling or getting injured - my main reason I wanted to rehouse earlier, and the aggressiveness if he where to get loose and since I have other animals in my house. I'm really not afraid of getting bitten or anything. I rarely get frightened by anything. I'll only handle him when really necessary from now on. I know they are very unpredictable. I can't wait till he matures, and I'm literally praying that it would be a female. They are stunningly gorgeous.

 

[CBickert]

CBickert thankx again for the harsh advice that I will DEFINATELY take to heart, so no need for sugar coating there. As I stated above he webbed the inside of the hide, the upper part of the inside of the hide is coverred in dirt and webbing, the hide was actually to be temporary. I do not have a smaller enclosure at this stage, and since I said I have my ways of feeding him, he doesn't even need to go out and search for his food since I will not leave a cricket in there, I would rather wait until he eats it, I usually drop the cricket right infront of my T and nudge it with a brush towards my T until a few centimetres away and the cricket would run right past my T and my T would grab him.. so yes a rather weird way but it's working and my T doesn't have to stress to find food, and I mist his whole cage, I will go look for a water bowl of smaller size tomZ then, the one I have is a bit too big. And yes maybe I was irresponsible I did not do proper research, I don't mind having T like a Irminia, And I don't mind having to rehouse it later on, I just thought it would be better for my T for rehousing it now, but I'd rather keep it in the smaller one then if it is better that way. And again thanx for the advice, I will make use of it no doubt.:smile:

---------- Post added 10-11-2014 at 10:12 PM ----------

It's okay CBickert, and I do take your advice seriously, I love my t, S/he's beautiful and I love showing him of (with photos obviously), and I already knew that they where a aggressive and energetic specie before I purchased him, the rest of my research was poor. I am up for the challenge, I just don't want to be in the situation of him bolting, or falling or getting injured - my main reason I wanted to rehouse earlier, and the aggressiveness if he where to get loose and since I have other animals in my house. I'm really not afraid of getting bitten or anything. I rarely get frightened by anything. I'll only handle him when really necessary from now on. I know they are very unpredictable. I can't wait till he matures, and I'm literally praying that it would be a female. They are stunningly gorgeous.

Just another word of caution, be careful when it gets larger and you have to tong feed. There is a chance that it can either injure itself (fangs) on the tongs or grab them and bolt up your arm. Neither of which you want. Since mine are in smaller enclosures I can drop a few crickets in there and they will either climb up the cork bark to the T or the T can find them. I feel as if this is more natural and it makes for some awesome observation of behavior.

Second thing, if you do need to rehouse try doing it in the bathtub. They can climb the walls so don't think it's escape proof, but it will be more manageable to recapture if they do escape. Or you could do a search for the 'bag method' of transferring.

Best of luck to you!

 

[lalberts9310]

I would keep that in mind hehe, thankyou again and I will post a few photos after each molt.. I have a question, at what size do they have their mature molt? Or is there no limit to size when it comes to the mature molt?

 

[CBickert]

I would keep that in mind hehe, thankyou again and I will post a few photos after each molt.. I have a question, at what size do they have their mature molt? Or is there no limit to size when it comes to the mature molt?

That is a question for a more experienced user. Females I am not sure. But males turn brown on their mature molt, usually around 5-6" average.
I'm sure you could run a search for it and it might already be answered for you. Sorry I could not be of help.

 

[lalberts9310]

Yep, I know how the male looks when matured, that's why I'm LITERALLY praying for a female LOL. They are stunningly beautiful!!! I would do some research on that then, and it's okay. You have been of great help already! :giggle: :smile:

 

[cold blood]

I would keep that in mind hehe, thankyou again and I will post a few photos after each molt.. I have a question, at what size do they have their mature molt? Or is there no limit to size when it comes to the mature molt?

Males molt into maturity and can do so sometimes at smaller sizes, so if its male it could be the "expected" size at 5+", but it could also potentially mature at 3.5".

I agree with everything said.

The reason its surprising that you are albe to get it out is because in a smaller enclosure, they really web it up, and at the slightest motion, they are generally right into the web tube and out of sight. This makes maintenance easy as the t is out of the way. Definitely don't put it in a bigger house, in fact, I would re-house to a smaller enclosure. Re-housing is part of raising a t and if you are afraid or concerned to have to do so, you probably should have chosen a different species. Housing it in a less than ideal situation for YOUR benefit, is not the definition of "loving" your animals in many people's eyes...certainly not saying you don't, not at all, its not something you considered or understood, yet.

I applaud the way you took the criticism, we get a lot of people that get defensive and argue back when they get info, and its refreshing when we don't have to deal with that, so I try to make it a point to thank those like you.

As for knowing what you get into before you buy an animal...I hope you have a swimming pool size aquarium for that red tail catfish, they get ENORMOUS! I used to hand feed one when I worked at a zoo and it was nearly as long as me, and much heavier. Once it gets 20lb+, about the only places to house them is in zoo style aquariums. Add another 100+lb and now where does one put it. I hate seeing such potentially large fish in the fish hobby, as very, very few people actually have the capability to house an adult, and even fewer have options as to a place for it to live as an adult.

 

[DVMT]

Hey all. I have owned a Psalmopoeus Irminia for about 7 months now, this is the second tarantula I have ever owned so I don't particularly have a lot of experience with tarantulas. I have never been bitten, I have even handled some of my friends' tarantulas and never had one incident where aggressive behaviour has been displayed towards me. My Irminia is about an Inch and a half, I handle him almost everyday and I regularly received comments from friends and other tarantula owners that my Irminia is one of the most docile and calmest tigers they have ever seen. Don't know if the reason to that is because he is still a sling. Lately I have been noticing that when I handle my irminia, especially yesterday, he constantly opens his fangs. He doesn't rear backwards displaying it's fangs, but as he runs from my one hand to the other (all feet on the surface of my hand, flat on it's abdomen) he constantly opens his fangs for a second then closes them, after a few seconds he would again open them then close them. Is this defensive behaviour? I can touch him on the abdomen and he would move forwards slowly, so he doesn't try to escape from me, I can take him from his cage without hassle. And since they don't rub their hair from their abdomen, is this opening and closing of fangs while moving forward without rearing a warning display? Thanks for the help in advance.

I'm not implying you are a straight up newb, but there is much useful information below. Also, it is highly recommended that you purchase, or borrow from a local library, The Tarantula Keepers Guide.......whether you keep 1 T or 50 T's.

The following message has been brought to you by The Tarantula Whisperer himself....Mr. Stan Schultz. Re-posted for you. Enjoy

Ah, ha! Did you hear that? That was the newbie alarm! :biggrin:


WELCOME TO THE HOBBY!

WELCOME TO THIS FORUM!


Please don't be offended. Tarantulas have been around for several hundreds of millions of years, and have been evolving and fine tuning their lifestyles steadily, seemingly almost forever. So, we're all playing catch-up here, and in a sense we will be newbies for a long time to come.

I strongly urge you to go to the Spiders, Calgary webtree and start reading. At least scan through the entire website, picking out topics that catch your attention, but be sure to read the following webpages. (Even experienced aficionados can sometimes benefit from a little review.)

STAN'S NEWBIE INTRODUCTION. No, you start out with the RIGHT foot first.

STAN'S RANT. Read as many of the books mentioned here as you can find.

MYTH WEBTREE. How did we ever get into this mess?

CARE SHEETS: THE MOTHER OF ALL MYTHS. How to avoid both going crazy and killing your spider at the same time.

TEMPERATURE. You may suffer hot flashes or cold chills but your tarantula doesn't.

RELATIVE HUMIDITY. You've been lied to!

GROWING YOUR OWN. No, we're talking about tarantulas here, not the other "stuff."

CARE AND HUSBANDRY OF THE CHILEAN ROSE TARANTULA. The pièce de résistance for everybody who has a Grammostola rosea.

SUBSTRATE. Getting to the bottom of it all.

The best news is that 90% of the questions you wanted to ask plus a lot, LOT more that you didn't think to ask are all laid out for you for ABSOLUTELY FREE if you read that website and take advantage of your friendly, neighborhood, public library! All you need do is read.

 

[lalberts9310]

Our catfish is about 40cm in length now hehe, and we had him now for about 9 months, they grow exceptionally fast when still young, we also hand feed him, his like a puppy lol and only has food on his brain, we are busy building one huge dam on the farm where we will keep him and some other catfish, that's my husbands hobby hahaha, mine is horses and tarantulas are a recently new hobby, we have a few catfish (not redtails, catfish indigenous to Africa) in a temporary dam on the farm of which one is about over 1m in length, we are considering to open a breeding program for endangered fish species (mainly cichild type such as the Singidia and chambo) and some catfish, thus we thought when the redtail outgrow his current aquarium it would be ideal to move him there along with other catfish and fish his size. I knew the tigers are aggressive and fast when I purchased him, it's just that when rehousing the only thing that scares me is a loose and injured T, i'm not afraid of being bitten, not at all. Hehe but yes I'm a noob, there's a lot of stuff I still need to learn, he'll be staying now in his smaller enclosure until he outgrew it, at least his bigger enclosure for later on is ready and waiting hehehe.

---------- Post added 10-11-2014 at 11:36 PM ----------

:biggrinamonVikki thanx for the help! I really appreciate!p and I admit I AM a newby! But if I don't ask the experts I will NEVER learn. Thankx for the help.

 

[DVMT]

You are quite welcome. This newbie alarm post is not mine. I am simply posting it on Stan's behalf while he works relentlessly on The 4th edition of the TKG. Anyone else can post it for newbs as well. I am not the sole torch carrier in this effort, but I feel Stan has crafted an excellent jumping off point for beginning keepers AKA future arachnoholics.