Genus Cyriopagopus (a.k.a. Haplopelma)

[Zhaoermia118]

so i guess its showing off time huh? Well here are mine.....;P

Cyriopagopus sp. Blue II Female

Cyriopagopus sp. Blue II Male

 

[phormingochilus]

I would REALLY like to hear someone coming with an educated explanation as to why someone are calling these Cyriopagopus sp. "Blue" No. 1 and No. 2?

They are caught in the same biorealm (Malaysia and Singapore being virtually the same, except for human made borders), there are absolutely NO difference neither morphologically nor colourwise - only the price ...

For me this is a sales trick to raise a descending price ...

I am tempted to go and collect some from the indonesian localities I have - just to be able to sell the exact same species as Cyriopagopus sp. "Blue" 3 and raise the price to new heights ... ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[GoTerps]

I would REALLY like to hear someone coming with an educated explanation as to why someone are calling these Cyriopagopus sp. "Blue" No. 1 and No. 2?

I'll drink to that!

I had a conversation with a particular US seller about that, and they are simply listing them as "Malaysian Blue", in order to avoid suggesting they are a different species. This seller also has them listed cheaper than the Singapore stock.

Eric

 

[Michael Jacobi]

I too believe the use of the "Type II" designation is misleading and is only useful as a marketing tool for dealers to charge more [or less]. Of course, if the dealers' source is charging more than the pricing is a result of a trickle down effect and not the dealer's own fault. I appreciate the locality designation. There is something interesting of knowing the origin - source locale. But I don't believe it makes a difference as they are, to the best of my knowledge, the exact same spider. What we really need is for someone to name (i.e., describe) the spider properly so we can all refer to it as that and forget the Singapore or Malaysia (or Indonesia).

On the other hand, there are geographical differences in widespread species. A perfect example is the comparatively unattractive dull brown A. seemani from Guatemala/Nicaragua in comparison with the dark brown high-contrast striped A. seemani from Costa Rica (some of which entered the American hobby some 20 years ago when Al McKee collected his own breeding stock there). For this reason, I keep my "Malaysian" and "Singapore" blues separate and labeled as such.

Cheers, Michael

 

[MRL]

Hey guys..

Just so you all know, I listed them as Cyrio sp "blue" II not for marketing ploy but because that's how I saw them refered to as and it was that or Cyrio sp "malaysia" which was an idea I saw on Arboreal T forum. I don't see them listed as that anywhere else so sorry for the confusion.

 

[RVS]

Hey guys..

Just so you all know, I listed them as Cyrio sp "blue" II not for marketing ploy but because that's how I saw them refered to as and it was that or Cyrio sp "malaysia" which was an idea I saw on Arboreal T forum. I don't see them listed as that anywhere else so sorry for the confusion.

There's already a different Cyriopagopus sp. "Malaysia", although it may prove to be just a dark form of schioedtei.

 

[GoTerps]

There's already a different Cyriopagopus sp. "Malaysia", although it may prove to be just a dark form of schiodtei.

It's just a locale, so there can be more than one sp. "locale here". Although coming up with a way to avoid confussion in the hobby is good.

RVS, is your above remark from having seen myself post or list sp. "Malaysia" (likely a dark color form of C. schioedtei? Just curious.

The one's I have I should just list as C. schioedtei DCF. C. schioedtei has a huge geographic range... and varies in coloration across this range, as far as I've been told. There's some discussion of these "dark" ones in this thread somewhere.

Eric

 

[Scorpendra]

on SSW, i saw a Cyrio labeled Cyriopagopus sp. "Malaysian Blue". is this the same species as "blue II", or yet another unidentified Cyrio? 'cause i'd expect fake names from dime-a-dozen petstores using marketing ploys.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Hi,
I'm quite sure the best way to classify these blue forms of Cyriopagopus are geographically. I have no clue whether or not type I is the same as type II, but I can say that as time rolls on, if the naming runs like this, you can expect Cyriopagopus type IIX in no time flat.

The problem will be that the geographical forms of this species are going to turn up more and more, being that the geographical range of this blue Cyriopagopus is what it is. There's no doubt that this "island hopper" will have slight morphological variation in the various geographic locales it will be found in due to extremely recent barriers now in place. Whether or not those island forms turn out to be different on a species level is another story altogether and you'll have to wait for work to be published on this species once more forms are located. Until then, go with geography as Michael mentioned, that way, once the work is complete (and I don't know who's working on them, but I could guess) you will be able to assign your spiders their correctly classified name. If you all go with "species II, III, IV", etc, you'll find it a lot more difficult to trace the origins of the spider and keep the forms or biospecies (if they exist at all) pure.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[GoTerps]

on SSW, i saw a Cyrio labeled Cyriopagopus sp. "Malaysian Blue". is this the same species as "blue II", or yet another unidentified Cyrio? 'cause i'd expect fake names from dime-a-dozen petstores using marketing ploys.

Yes, they are one and the same.

What fake name? They're just saying "Maylasian Blue" to differentiate b/t the Malyasian stock and stock from Singapore... not suggesting a different species.

The sp. "Maylasia" they have listed is the likely DCF C. schioedtei I mentioned above.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Hi,
SSW's use of the labelling is about as good as it could get, they stated a Malaysian blue Cyriopagopus, if all dealers could follow suit things will be easier in future for the customer.

Steve

 

[Zhaoermia118]

oh well sorry, i'm only as educated as what the guy that sold it to me as is, and i just assumed he had this stuff together, so posted as what it was sold to me as......:?

I would REALLY like to hear someone coming with an educated explanation as to why someone are calling these Cyriopagopus sp. "Blue" No. 1 and No. 2?

They are caught in the same biorealm (Malaysia and Singapore being virtually the same, except for human made borders), there are absolutely NO difference neither morphologically nor colourwise - only the price ...

For me this is a sales trick to raise a descending price ...

I am tempted to go and collect some from the indonesian localities I have - just to be able to sell the exact same species as Cyriopagopus sp. "Blue" 3 and raise the price to new heights ... ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[Steve Nunn]

oh well sorry, i'm only as educated as what the guy that sold it to me as is, and i just assumed he had this stuff together, so posted as what it was sold to me as......:?

Hi,
I think you missunderstood the direction of my friends abruptness. You have no need to apologise for what you said at all, exactly as you mentioned, you can only reference what the seller explains to you

Søren, like many folk who know a little more about these spiders then most, see the irony in sellers marketing these spiders as something they perhaps are not. I think his point was directed to those people more then yourself, again, you have nothing to apologise for.

I also think it goes back further then that too, to the collectors themselves, who are keen to promote their last lucky find based on minor differences in the one specimen of the other form they have seen, which for all anyone might know, may have been a juvenile, perhaps an old specimen!

It all goes back to the taxonomy of these animals and the importance of it. Collectors or sellers are often not in a position to remotely accurately describe what they find, often there is no reference because the species is undescribed. If the collector is lucky, he/she can find a species description that accurately suits both the morphology and the collection location of the animal. Without so much as a species/genus reference (look what's happened to the blue spiders from South America ) then depending on the number of collectors, these animals can end up with a variety of names, most of which are completely inappropriate. On the same token different species can be labelled as the one species and interbreeds then subsequently and unknowingly enter the hobby, which will probably be infertile and risk the possible future of the species in captivity.

Know your spider!! Guesswork is dangerous in this early stage of the hobby, we have no idea how dangerous just yet, but if you go with what you know and no more then that (locale, colour and genus in this case), you're off to a good start, just don't try and get creative like some of the dealers/sellers/collectors, they could be the real killers of the hobby, without even knowing it. Nobody wants hybrids yet, too early and they can be real dangerous without serious work behind it. If you doubt any of this, look around the forums for info and posts on the genus Hysterocrates by guys like Rich Gallon, Ray Gabriel, Timo R., there's a direct result of what lack of species knowledge could do to captive animals. It's already begun

Steve

 

[RVS]

It's just a locale, so there can be more than one sp. "locale here". Although coming up with a way to avoid confussion in the hobby is good.

RVS, is your above remark from having seen myself post or list sp. "Malaysia" (likely a dark color form of C. schioedtei? Just curious.

The one's I have I should just list as C. schioedtei DCF. C. schioedtei has a huge geographic range... and varies in coloration across this range, as far as I've been told. There's some discussion of these "dark" ones in this thread somewhere.

Eric

I've seen it on atleast one dealer's list, and there was a thread about it on the boards a while ago.

 

[strongboy4]

my blue beauty

here I post a pic of my blue beauty. Greetings to all there from Italy:worship:

 

[Poeci]

Hello

I got this one titelt as "haplopelma minax" (adult and really huge female)

Haplopelma schmidti juvenile

Haplopelma hainanum juvenile

Haplopelma lividum adult female

Best regards Poeci

 

[priZZ]

Hello,

sorry but I can't show You some blue...

* 0.1 Cyriopagopus schioedtei (Thorell, 1891)

 

[bistrobob85]

What happened to Haplopelma Hainanum?!?! In this gigantic thread i've only seen a few pics of them... Come on, take out your Hainanum pics .

phil.

 

[brachy]

Hi bro!

There is my hainanum. She is little bigger . Legspam about 20cm . What is your hainaums sex?

And my schmidti. She molted 2weeks ago. There is its old clothes. Now its colour is very nice and intensive.

 

[kitty_b]

female h. lividum, just starting to show real color at 2.5"