Cyriocosmus leetzi vs "venezuela"

[Envy139]

Hi, there anyone who knows difference between C. leetzi and C. leetzi "venezuela". I saw that couple of shops were selling both spp. But I heard that this is the same spp. And can be breed between themself as they are the same spp. What is true and does anyone spot any difference?

 

[viper69]

I wouldn’t breed different localities together ever unless DNA analysis demonstrates they are the same species.

There are TONS of examples of scientists thinking some animals were the same species and upon DNA analysis they learned the animals were different species.

Do not create FrankenTs.

 

[HeartBum]

C. leetzi & C. fasciatum all over again this…

 

[Envy139]

Do you have any knowledge of differences between C. leetzi and C. leetzi venezuela?

 

[Edan bandoot]

Do you have any knowledge of differences between C. leetzi and C. leetzi venezuela?

The difference is in the name... One has an unknown locale, the other doesn't...

 

[Smotzer]

They are sold under different names, why would you consider breeding then together? There are different names for a reason they are different locales and potentially different species or subspecies.

 

[Tarantuland]

I wouldn’t breed different localities together ever unless DNA analysis demonstrates they are the same species.

There are TONS of examples of scientists thinking some animals were the same species and upon DNA analysis they learned the animals were different species.

Do not create FrankenTs.

I agree of course, but do you ever come across literature about DNA analysis confirming similar species of theraphosidae? That's one of my research goals, despite being a primarily macro person. I usually only hear about morphological and/or locality differences. If you can link to any of this I'd love to read it. I have looked on WSC and google scholar

 

[viper69]

I agree of course, but do you ever come across literature about DNA analysis confirming similar species of theraphosidae? That's one of my research goals, despite being a primarily macro person. I usually only hear about morphological and/or locality differences. If you can link to any of this I'd love to read it. I have looked on WSC and google scholar

There are groups using genetics and cladistics.

Hamilton and Bond used DNA barcoding if I recall. There are others too that use barcoding, just Google

Mexico had investigated the use of DNA as a means of catching smugglers, correct name used on different t to get them out

 

[8 legged]

Hi, there anyone who knows difference between C. leetzi and C. leetzi "venezuela". I saw that couple of shops were selling both spp. But I heard that this is the same spp. And can be breed between themself as they are the same spp. What is true and does anyone spot any difference?

If, against all reason, you still want to mate... be honest when selling the young animals and offer them to the buyers as possible hybrids. Otherwise you may be responsible for generations of unwanted mixtures!
Nobody wants that in the hobby!!!

 

[hexxinghour]

found this on a 2011 post. could it be an older classification?

Ok..
sooooooooooooooooooooo
i got a PM from tom and gave me some great info
this will give me more "browser searches" in my search to learn more.
lol


"black arachnid said:
hey

to answer your question:

C. sp "leetzi" and C.sp "leetzi" venezuela are the same
the true C. leetzi is the one from colombia

the one that is called C.sp"venezuela" (on the chart that you linked) is now called C. venezuelensis

kind regards

Tom"

 

[Envy139]

I don't want to breed them each other. I don't have C. leetzi venezuela. I was Looking for some bulk offers for this spp. but I want to see difference in appearence but as I can see noone of you can point any.

 

[8 legged]

Unfortunately no, I only know the "normal" leetzi. I saw that you are from Poland, you have real professionals in your country. Google for J. Skowronek (Sosnowiec). He might be able to help!

 

[c.h.esteban]

C. leetzi was first described by Vol 1999 only from Colombia on a female Holotype and a male Paratype from Villavincencio (Departemento del Meta).
Fukushima, Bertani & Silva, 2005 described also Material from the Colombia Departemento de Casanare.
Later Kaderka 2016a, described also specimens from Venezuela, State of Táchira as C. leetzi.
In the Discussion he wrote about C. leetzi:

"Cyriocosmus leetzi is now known from the type population in Colombia and from Venezuelan population in Táchira. The representatives of both populations share the common reddish-brown carapace with the black caput and seven radially arranged black spots in the thoracic area, the black abdomen with three clear lateral stripes joined with the U-shaped urticating setae patch, and the black legs, dorsally with whitish longitudinal stripes (Figure 34). The male palpal bulb morphology with short PA is similar and comparable in both populations, as is the shape of spermathecae with caliciform extensions and convex basal plates. A comparative analysis of the species was done, combined with that of the closely related Cyriocosmus nicholausgordoni sp. nov., and the differences are shown in Table 16.
In the case of Cyriocosmus leetzi, only two traits show differences that can be assessed as significant: the presence of the fourth pair of very narrow stripes near spinnerets, not basally joined with three clear lateral stripes (present only in the non-type Venezuelan population), and a range of metatarsal scopulae. Moreover, it was recorded in the population from Táchira that a pair of short anterior stripes near pedicelo, well visible in juveniles, disappears during ontogeny.
There is no reason to doubt that both populations of Cyriocosmus leetzi and Cyriocosmus nicholausgordoni sp. nov. belong to the same lineage because of the high degree of conformity.
It is also evident that the type population and the population from Táchira may represent populations connected along the eastern side of the mountain range of Andes, but the population of Cyriocosmus nicholausgordoni sp. nov. from Amazonas is obviously isolated by the Orinoco River. Further research of both species is necessary to understand the process of speciation inside the lineage of Cyriocosmus leetzi + Cyriocosmus nicholausgordoni sp. nov."

A male specimens from the pet trade, which was labled as "C. leetzi ex Venezuela" (E0596) show no differences to the described features and the diagnosis that was given in Kaderka 2016a. Especially in the shape of the bulb and the prescence of the retrolateral process in palpal tibia with a cluster of numerous spiniform setae.

But i would prefer to keep the specimens from Colombia and Venezuela separate as long as as we know for sure if there is really a conection between thes populations.

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• c.h.esteban
• Mar 19, 2022