(crossbreeding) G. rosea X G.iheringi

[TheNatural]

The Natural is surprised that hybrids would be sickly or weak or experience massive dieoffs, but that's what the biological species concept generally is.

Im not surprised at all!!!

This is just another case of someone who's ignorant about the biology/classification systems doing something idiotic and rationalizing their desire to play god by thinking of themselves as a scientist

No need to use agressive words, I respect your opinion.
Well... anyway, Im pretty sure that people like Mendel, Galilleu, Darwin and so many others have heard sweet words like this for all their lifes.

 

[Stylopidae]

No need to use agressive words, I respect your opinion.
Well... anyway, Im pretty sure that people like Mendel, Galilleu, Darwin and so many others have heard sweet words like this for all their lifes.

The difference between you and them is that their theories were completely new and had not been replicated in the laboratory dozens of times and confirmed by thousands of researchers in thousands more pages of peer reviewed journals. The path you're walking is hardly new...and you don't seem to realize that.

You're essentially carving a wheel out of stone, looking at it and going 'Oh, my god...I'm Fedit brilliant' and then driving to the patent office.

I just don't really see a point to what you're doing unless you're planning on publishing the research or working with one of the taxonomists on the boards to help double check the taxonomy of the two species in question.

I haven't checked the papers on either of these, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if their descriptions had been double-checked with the BSC.

But hey...as long as those slings don't make it to the open market, it's all cool. Most halfbreeders tend to only think of their pocketbooks when doing this crap and don't really care about the hobby and the variety of species as a whole and as a result are willing to toss any two spiders together who will mate. Eventually, we end up with monstrosities like P. irminiaXcambridgei or B. vagansXalbopilosum and then these end up getting sold under different latin names and under different claimed nationalities because many ignorant petstores don't try to know crap about the animals they sell and muddies the taxonomical/phylogenetic water even more than it already is.

There are a few examples of variety lost in the hobby because people didn't bother to keep the gene pools seperate...a good example is what happened with Avicularia versicolor. There used to be a giant variant of that species, but breeders didn't bother to keep the variants seperate and now that variant is extinct in the hobby.

 

[TheNatural]

The difference between you and them is that their theories were completely new and had not been replicated in the laboratory dozens of times and confirmed by thousands of researchers in thousands more pages of peer reviewed journals. The path you're walking is hardly new...and you don't seem to realize that.

Sorry man, I never claimed for anything new, I just posted some pics that are very unusual and for this reason are interesting and maybe for someone else will also be interesting to follow what happens to the slings (..if any).

I just don't really see a point to what you're doing unless you're planning on publishing the research or working with one of the taxonomists on the boards to help double check the taxonomy of the two species in question.

I will be absolutly glad to help, but as you said "replicated in the laboratory dozens of times and confirmed by thousands of researchers in thousands more pages of peer reviewed journals." so I cant see how it can be helpful.

But hey...as long as those slings don't make it to the open market, it's all cool.

you can be sure of that.

Eventually, we end up with monstrosities like P. irminiaXcambridgei or B. vagansXalbopilosum and then these end up getting sold under different latin names and under different claimed nationalities because many ignorant petstores don't try to know crap about the animals they sell and muddies the taxonomical/phylogenetic water even more than it already is.

I agree 1000%

 

[ChrisNCT]

I personally think this is a good idea only because there are so many know it alls that say it's impossible.

Either way they will be nice slings as far as color.


We'll see what the outcome is....I'd bet a better match would be a G pulchra X G. rosea RCF

 

[Merfolk]

Bottom line, Nature has its way. If an hybridation was not meant to succeed it won't. I'm not against these experiments and it's not like T's were extremely popular and we'd have to isolate hybrids like viruses; those guys are'nt mindless.

Personnaly, I disliked most of the hybrids I saw (like the mexican fantasy) but an exception has yet to come! Some current species might even be hybrids of exticnt variations! And you could put whatever you want in Nature's melting pot, just cut the human influence for a few hundred years, and an new order would soon reestablish itself.

 

[Drachenjager]

i mean good grief, Merfolk are hybrids. I just wonder who the first human dolphin (the fish not the mammal) hybrid was lol

 

[Stylopidae]

I personally think this is a good idea only because there are so many know it alls that say it's impossible.

There are many ways to describe species...some based upon morphology, some based upon ecology and some based upon biology and some based upon the gene flow (or lack thereof) between wild populations. It is those who say that species should be classified according to biology who say that those who can't interbreed aren't the same species...not that two different species can't interbreed.

Some species that can interbreed in captivity would never meet in the wild.

I'm currently reading a 140 page book that only explains the concepts of how species are described...the 500 page book that tells you how to apply it is next on my list.

It's a complicated subject...one that most hobbiests should at least make an effort to understand before traipsing haphazardly around with nature.

 

[syndicate]

i think its an interesting experiment and im sure that the natural is responsible enough not to let these loose into the hobby.a little uncalled for to be so rude to him cheshire.its possible knowbody has tried to cross these two species together before.theres a good chance nothing will come of this breeding and if there are slings they could all be infertile.the only way to find out is to try.honestly if your doing this in a responsible manner then i see no problems with it

 

[NevularScorpion]

Can you guys give me some of those slings and im also looking forward on buying G inheringi slings from you guys. put me on the waiting list for the G inherngi

 

[Drachenjager]

i am hoping the male and female die with no offspring and the ones who want to cross breed them have a pack of wild pokies attack them every time they try to get another T.

 

[syndicate]

completely uncalled for man.why would u wish that upon anyone?there his spiders or a friends and they can do whatever they want with them.

 

[NevularScorpion]

completely uncalled for man.why would u wish that upon anyone?there his spiders or a friends and they can do whatever they want with them.

I totally agree with him

 

[TheNatural]

Hi Chris, hi Genei,

Thanks!

Genei, my friend has mate the iheringi male with a rosea female and a iheringi female but its just to compare both grown rate in this experiment, but anyway he will keep all slings. So we will have to wait for the pics.

 

[cockroach52]

how is it a messy problem if they're labelled as crossbred and sold/given out?

i think you should let the slings go in an environment they might thrive in and take pics.

 

[DrAce]

If the spiderlings you produce are fertile, then we have a serious question about what 'species' they are - or specifically, what species you bred.

I know there are those who say "Nyaahh! You said it's impossible!"... infact, what you have done is quite significant. You have re-calssified two spiders, and garnered important information about how similar those 'species' actually are.

On a different note, I don't personally believe that our definition of a species is actually any good. However, at the moment it is all we have... when we have a good DNA picture of what a species might be, then we might have something more useful and/or testable.

Also, for the record, if you were to do this in a scientific institution, you would have had endless paperwork and red-tape to go through. Consider yourselves lucky.

 

[vvx]

how is it a messy problem if they're labelled as crossbred and sold/given out?

i think you should let the slings go in an environment they might thrive in and take pics.

Well the risk is that someone down stream from you won't be as careful in keeping them labeled. Then perhaps someone buys them gets an ID from a photo and ends up with the wrong ID for the spider, but breeds it and sells the offspring as what they thought it was.

As for letting them go outside, it sounds like fun. But you have to consider that the tarantulas could cause problems for other native species (ok probably not much of a problem with tarantulas) and at any rate you would probably make the politicians go nuts like they are in Florida.

Personally, I don't see a major problem with hybrids. I mean, yeah, there's probably a lot of species out there that in the hobby are mostly hybrids (see discussions over florida b. vagans vs. hobby b. vagans) but it's going to happen anyway with similar looking species capable of breeding together. Short of creating a pedigree for tarantulas I don't see avoiding it to some extent. (Hmm, keeping tarantula pedigrees doesn't sound like a bad idea.)

 

[Merfolk]

You can't generalise about how animals will react. Some geographicaly distant sp will produce viable offspring, while you can have a specie where individuals from different localities won't mate (ex: Xenesthis)

 

[sunpoe]

I don't think hybridization is a good idea, what is the point? Just to say you can? It has the possibility to corrupt true species and that is to much of a risk to me.

 

[vvx]

I don't think hybridization is a good idea, what is the point? Just to say you can? It has the possibility to corrupt true species and that is to much of a risk to me.

Well, <controversy>some hybrids might look cool enough to justify it.</controversy>

Consider B. Baumgarteni. Lots thought it was a hybrid, some still do. Most I think don't anymore, and it fetches a rather nice price. It's a nice looking spider hybrid or not. So that could be the point, to create more attractive hybrids.

 

[David_F]

Well, <controversy>some hybrids might look cool enough to justify it.</controversy>

God, I hope the tarantula hobby doesn't ever decide to go down the road paved by the reptile hobby. T'would be a sad thing, indeed.

But I don't have much faith in the ability of humans to leave things <edit> so I imagine in the next twenty years or so we'll see plenty of hybrids and a lot of missing pure species.

I say all of that even though I am secretly curious as to what the outcome of this project will be. I still think all but a handful of the offspring, if any result, should be burned.