Complicated spider behavior question?

[archaeosite]

Unfortunately, there isn't much research on the ailments of invertebrates. You could try contacting some arachnid researchers and see if they have any ideas. Personally, I would guess it's some kind of neurological defect, but that's pure speculation. An actual, certified expert might give you some great information (with which you should report back! .

 

[Amimia]

I... I get that. In fact, I already knew that, which is why she's only been on it for a very short period of time while this whole move went down because I figured it was better than just glass until I could get more substrate. That's also why I agreed with the last person who said this. I'd really like to get back on the subject at hand, though.

Just making sure ^^ I wasn't getting on to you or anything. As for the subject at hand, I honestly have no idea. I have a MM A. avicularia that displays exactly what you are talking about, but I attributed that to him being a MM.

 

[BugPrince]

I'd love to!! The idea of spidery ailments and just how little we know about them is absolutely fascinating to me. Does anyone know of any "arachnid researchers" I could contact? Anyone in particular who might actually have an interest in this sort of thing? I figured it was just something neurological too, but wouldn't it be cool to understand it more fully?

& Amimia, no prob--I get you're all looking out for the spider, it's just bad luck she's on chips right now and it'll change as soon as possible, it's just like with the way she acts I think that's one of the least of her worries right now lmao I don't think she even COULD burrow if she wanted to, because her legs just don't work right! But I'll get her on something nicer asap, I promise !!!

 

[Blueandbluer]

I've watched both videos and maybe I'm missing something but I didn't see anything that look like unusual movement to me. Adult brachys can be really lazy.

 

[Angel Minkov]

Change the substrate. Wood chips are bad for invertebrates.

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Based on... what research?

 

[BobGrill]

Based on... what research?

Really? Where have you been?

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[Angel Minkov]

Really? Where have you been?

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Doesn't answer my question. I can't think of a reason as to why they would be bad (harmful) to a T. They may not be the best choice, but definitely wouldn't call them bad specifically for inverts.

 

[BobGrill]

Doesn't answer my question. I can't think of a reason as to why they would be bad (harmful) to a T. They may not be the best choice, but definitely wouldn't call them bad specifically for inverts.

I think it's something to do with the chemicals they use to treat them with or chemicals that are secreted from the wood chips itself, I can't remember which. I've read that a few times, specifically on this forum.

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[cold blood]

I have a MM A. avicularia that displays exactly what you are talking about, but I attributed that to him being a MM.

DO you have any plans for that A. avic MM?? I have several females that could use his palps.

 

[The Snark]

Change the substrate. Wood chips are bad for invertebrates.

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Those do not appear to be wood chips but crumbled bark and debris. Bark is the skin of the tree, the first line of defense keeping unwanted organisms out. If you don't know what kind of bark it is, bark that has been proven harmless to a given animal, you can easily be asking for trouble. Redwood, Pines, some Fir, Spruce, much of the Laurel family (Camphors), Fagaceae (Oaks) and some other deciduous barks have irritant, repellent or outright toxic properties.

Also be aware, many of these 'forest products' are really byproducts of lumber milling. The discarded materials reprocessed for additional profit. Quality control with these discards is non existent much of the time. As example, The huge piles of bark, sawdust and wood chips at some milling operations are laid out to collect and mop up accidental spills from the green and black liquor chemicals used in the kraft process of making paper. Just the fumes from those commonly found chemicals at the wood processing plants are strong enough to stupefy and even kill seagulls that land nearby. (Reference: LP, Samoa California as example)

The Surfrider organization has done a lot of testing of the chemicals and environment around wood processing plants and has excellent documentation of the hazards they present to animals. http://www.surfrider.org/

 

[dementedlullaby]

I think it's something to do with the chemicals they use to treat them with or chemicals that are secreted from the wood chips itself, I can't remember which. I've read that a few times, specifically on this forum.

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I think it's only cedar and pine chips that are actually harmful on a chemical level. Although I do agree that wood/bark chips = horrible substrate for terrestrials especially. If a fall happens it'll be more likely to cause damage than on regular dirt sub.

 

[Nicolas C]

+ 1 about cedar / pine chips, that's what I read too.

Back to the subject, as two other people have already stated, I don't see anything wrong in your smithi behavior. I could be missing a point, but yours act exactely as almost all my adult Brachypelma and even my A chalcodes.

 

[Blueandbluer]

+ 1 about cedar / pine chips, that's what I read too.

Back to the subject, as two other people have already stated, I don't see anything wrong in your smithi behavior. I could be missing a point, but yours act exactely as almost all my adult Brachypelma and even my A chalcodes.

You never know what wood chips have been treated with, and also they can't dig or burrow in them very well. I agree with the others who mentioned that they are not a good substrate choice.

 

[Formerphobe]

Pines, cedars and related trees can certainly have a negative effect on inverts. Even "safe" woods can have a toxic effect if they've been sprayed with pesticides at some point in time.
Pesticide treated mammals living in the home could also be a source of toxicity via transference - petting dog or cat, then doing T maintenance; hairs dropping into enclosures, etc.
It's also been suggested that some incense, candles, cleaning products, smoke, etc may have a negative affect on inverts. Some species or individuals may be more susceptible than others.
Or, it could be C, none of the above...

 

[Angel Minkov]

I'm not talking about wood chips treated with chemicals and what not, but just plain old, non-toxic tree chips. Of course I would never put treated chips or chips from toxic trees anywhere near my T, but besides that, I don't think they'd be bad for inverts

 

[Poec54]

I'm not talking about wood chips treated with chemicals and what not, but just plain old, non-toxic tree chips.

Many trees naturally have saps and chemicals to dissuade herbivores and insects. They don't have to be treated in a factory to be a health issue for tarantulas. There's a species of tree in Africa (home of the giant herbivores) with sap so toxic that if it gets on a person's skin it can be absorbed and cause death in 20 minutes. The plant kingdom has evolved many different survival strategies.

 

[leaveittoweaver]

For those not familiar, that looks exactly like Repta Bark to me....

I personally don't trust that any company who makes bedding is testing for anything harmful.

I also don't see anything weird about the T's movements...looks like it was on an awkward surface and the poking at it made him slip in a weird way?

 

[The Snark]

Forest products, as bedding. People don't like to buy black wood products. Would you buy black wood chips for your hamster's bedding? Black sawdust?

The fungi found on ALL wood products fresh from the forest is ubiquitous. It's on everything.

Off the log trucks comes the trees. They are debarked and rough sawn then everything goes into the ponds. The ponds are a mixture of fungicide and water. The chips are skimmed, dried and blown into trucks, destined for the paper mills or sorted and bagged for animal bedding and so on.

RULE: If it is wood and isn't black, it's been soaked in a powerful fungicide. No, the people on the debarker or head rig do not care and have no equipment to sort. > "Oh! Those logs are fungi resistant and don't need to go into the pond."

Fungicide: it's strong enough to kill the molds and mildews in your bathroom and on your shower curtain. Something your average household disinfectant has a hell of a job doing.

 

[BugPrince]

Oh my goodness I didn't notice all these replies! I was pretty sure my thread had died and there was no reason to check it anymore! Alright, let me update/address a few things!

The substrate: I believe it was orchid bark I had her on in the pictures? But regardless, she is on a dirt/soil now, and has been for a while. She does seem to like it better, so I'm just not going to worry about this type of bark vs these types of wood chips and just keep her on dirt!

Behavior: okay, so a LOT of people are coming out now saying "this doesn't look strange at all, my [insert species here] does the same thing!" OR "looks like the particular way you touched it/the surface it was on made it do this?" (Basically implying the strange movements were isolated to these exact moments caused by something I did for just these videos)

So I will address these!

"This doesn't look strange--" I beg to differ? I spend a lot of time just staring at my spiders, I can't say any of them act like this...? I don't normally see a full grown tarantula just fall on its face, slip around, drag its whole body, etc? I may only have 7 tarantulas, but if all of them are acting one way and the b smithi is the odd one out, I'd say here's certainly something odd going on? And I find it strange you would say you have a spider that can't hold itself up, can't stop itself from falling, or has strange movements and you would think that was totally normal? But hey, maybe it really isn't that weird!!!

"Surface/provocation/something in this specific video made it act this way--" I will once again stress that this is a behavior she exhibits constantly. It's not like I noticed it for a split second on one specific surface and then thought I'd catch a video of it and then never saw it again. Additionally, I provided two VERY different surfaces as examples, so. This "strange behavior" is not LIMITED to her sliding off a slick plastic surface, it's a collection of behaviors I've described that have gone on for months.

Finally, I'd like to put out there that while at a local store that has a really good selection of tarantulas I was talking to the tarantula hobbyists that worked there and one girl suggested the b smithi could possibly have a buildup of tissue in the joints or something like that, and that it would be something that would take a couple of moults to correct, but is otherwise harmless. This hadn't been suggested to me before, but doesn't seem unlikely!

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE INTEREST AND DISCUSSION

 

[8Legs8Eyes]

The only thing that really popped out to me was that the original pictures you took appear to have been taken outdoors. The video you posted doesn't make me think there is necessarily anything wrong, but I also wonder if you are in the habit of handling and letting them walk around outside.