Communist or anti-communist?

[Olan]

I will never have a communal set-up. I think that the inability of spiders to get away from eachother makes it a risky proposition, and possibly stressful for the Ts. Always having to worry about feeding them extremely well could get burdensome. I understand that it works well for some people, but it's just not for me.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

No way... one of my rule is: "one enclosure, one spider/scorpion/centipede etc" except for when they are little babies of course

Also IMO (and I've said IMO) communal enclosures sucks, no matter how much skilled/experienced the keeper is. I love to see one specimen per enclosure in a perfect set up, not those :-s

 

[Najakeeper]

There are animals, which do not tolerate a group. (I will never put these animals together except for breeding.)

There are animals, which are tolerant to others in a group. (I may be tempted to try a communal with some species of these animals.)

There are animals, who are fine with each other in a group. (I am perfectly OK with keeping these animals together.)

Do your research, and decide accordingly. I think looking at the natural environment of these animals is the first step here.

 

[Bread]

Balfouri live together in the wild as adults. The mothers also kills prey to feed her young. I have a communal setup of these guys and they are great, the most entertaining T's I have.

Others such as hysterocrates/poec/holothele that are merely tolerant, I will not force to be together.

 

[14pokies]

I'm not a huge fan of communal setups. I advise against them whenever it's brought up even for so called communal species. When someone can show me evidence that Ts coordinate hunts and share prey I will stop thinking of them as solitary predators. Untill then I will treat them as such.

 

[Bread]

I'm not a huge fan of communal setups. I advise against them whenever it's brought up even for so called communal species. When someone can show me evidence that Ts coordinate hunts and share prey I will stop thinking of them as solitary predators. Untill then I will treat them as such.

Slings share prey every single time they feed, the adults don't.

 

[14pokies]

Slings share prey every single time they feed, the adults don't.

Yes and then in nature when they start getting agressive towards one another they disperse. In captivity there is no where to run and many are eaten by there siblings.. Now one could say there are caveat species I.E. M balfouri,N. incei etc but I guarantee if there was a shortage of food they would gladly eat each other.

 

[Andrea82]

Although it can look awesome, i have one more reason to not go communal with even a tolerant species like M.balfouri. Caution is always advised when dealing with T's, especially OW. So the thought of five spiders popping up and running around instead of one is enough to deter me from starting a communal

 

[EulersK]

I've had my communal M. balfouri going with sac mates for a couple months now. They're young juveniles, three of them, in a very large enclosure designed to hold them until they are adults. All three made a web maze together in the same 6"x6" corner. That goes beyond tolerating, that's a community that they actively chose to be a part of. Now, I had a similar setup with an N. incei communal... I now have one N. incei. The same can't be said for that species. But the M. balfouri are living on top of each other without having to, often sharing the same web tube even though there is already plenty to choose from.

I know that @Blue Jaye has quite a bit of experience in keeping M. balfouri communal and to my knowledge has not lost a single one to cannibalism. I'd like to hear her opinion on this.

 

[Bread]

Just a bit on the side, but I'm considering nipping over to Socotra to see them in the wild some time in july, I'm going down to move the last of my stuff out of a holiday home i sold in Kenya if anyone UK based (or can get to near Leeds) want's to come?
I'll be flying down in my seneca so it'll mean a couple of stops on the way plus flying over Somalia .

 

[Trenor]

Yeah, this is an old argument that crops up every few months. There are tons of posts showing M.balofuri actually living in the same burrow and eating together. I have photos of them piled on top of each other in a single burrow when there are four other burrows they could have used separately. It's worked for me for over a year and has worked for others a lot longer over multiple generations. Some of them from different sacks (in the case of introducing new males). Mine are no more stressed than anything else I own.

I am considering combining my two communal enclosures on the next big rehouse. One set will be bigger than the other (about 4-5 months difference in them) but both will be going into a large enclosure where neither group will have established territory. I still haven't decided yet and it's a long way off before I need to do a rehousing on either of the communal setups.

People that want to keep them communal can and if you do then don't.

 

[Toxoderidae]

I'm pretty anti-communist. Most communist regimes don't end well, or change a lot.

 

[Trenor]

Although it can look awesome, i have one more reason to not go communal with even a tolerant species like M.balfouri. Caution is always advised when dealing with T's, especially OW. So the thought of five spiders popping up and running around instead of one is enough to deter me from starting a communal

None of my M.balfouri have ever popped out on me. I give them a nice sized enclosure with lots of dirt to burrow in. They tend to all run for the communal burrow and they don't come out till I have long since left. Rehousing is a little more detailed but multiple catch cups and lids help with that. Making sure you're prepared (like you would for any re house) is key.

It's only slightly more difficult to care for them in a group than a solo T is IMO. There again I'm a less hands on kinda keeper. I don't try to tong feed or coax out my T for a photo using a paint brush.

 

[Trenor]

I'm pretty anti-communist. Most communist regimes don't end well, or change a lot.

Well, if you consider that mammals were communal (communist if you need to call it that) for millions of years then your statement is not really true. It's only since we became more concerned with what we perceived as "My Fair Share" that this has changed.

 

[Toxoderidae]

Well, if you consider that mammals were communal (communist if you need to call it that) for millions of years then your statement is not really true. It's only since we became more concerned with what we perceived as "My Fair Share" that this has changed.

I mean in today's/recent history's standards. I mean like communism is flawed in itself, especially with the countries that attempted to make examples of themselves with communism (looking at you, Russia)

 

[Bread]

None of my M.balfouri have ever popped out on me. I give them a nice sized enclosure with lots of dirt to burrow in. They tend to all run for the communal burrow and they don't come out till I have long since left. Rehousing is a little more detailed but multiple catch cups and lids help with that. Making sure you're prepared (like you would for any re house) is key.

It's only slightly more difficult to care for them in a group than a solo T is IMO. There again I'm a less hands on kinda keeper. I don't try to tong feed or coax out my T for a photo using a paint brush.

Same here, they prefer diving down there holes to standing and fighting.
Feeding I find is like ants, first one finds the prey item, then another omes to investigate then another etc and you end up with a pile of legs like below, it's quite funny

Believe it or not there's a superworm under there

 

[Trenor]

I mean in today's/recent history's standards. I mean like communism is flawed in itself, especially with the countries that attempted to make examples of themselves with communism (looking at you, Russia)

Yeah, but is it communal/communism idea that is flawed or is it a flawed implementation (greed etc) of the idea that is the problem with current attempts? Or is it that this idea works great in small groups but doesn't scale well when you try it with a country as large as Russia? Or is it the convenient fall guy of a government take over that wanted to get a group of people to believe they would have more when in reality they wanted to set themselves up as a ruler class and needed the help of the populace?

It worked for millions of years using lots of groups of mammals on some decent scales. It's only in recent history (considering the over all time scale) that we have diverged from this method of living.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Yeah, but is it communal/communism idea that is flawed or is it a flawed implementation (greed etc) of the idea that is the problem with current attempts? Or is it that this idea works great in small groups but doesn't scale well when you try it with a country as large as Russia? Or is it the convenient fall guy of a government take over that wanted to get a group of people to believe they would have more when in reality they wanted to set themselves up as a ruler class and needed the help of the populace?

It worked for millions of years using lots of groups of mammals on some decent scales. It's only in recent history (considering the over all time scale) that we have diverged from this method of living.

I believe you and @Toxoderidae use the term "communism" differently here. You seem to use the broadest definition, whereas I believe he uses it in the more narrow sense as in communism = Marxism-Leninism or Maoism (the two main branches of Marxism associated with the countries who called themselves "communist" during the 20th century.)

 

[EulersK]

I knew this thread was going to be detailed because of the typos

 

[TownesVanZandt]

I knew this thread was going to be detailed because of the typos

I thought the same when I saw the title, but I also decided that for once I will not be the one to "throw the first stone" and derail it