Chilobrachys electric blue

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Poec54

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When I was collecting cobras for 9 years in the 1980's & 1990's, most were wild caught. Indian cobras were considered an ugly, undesirable 'junk species' when they were being imported and sold cheap. Once India was shut down for exporting animals, prices started to rise & a few people started to breed them. Throughout the hobby people suddenly changed gears, and Indian cobras became objects of beauty. They got to be pricey and highly coveted. Another example of how price tags influence how we see things.

Keep in mind, what's plentiful and what's rare can change on short notice due to a variety of reasons. Do our opinions of those animals change too, with availability? Are we looking at the animals on their own merits?
 

Matabuey

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When I was collecting cobras for 9 years in the 1980's & 1990's, most were wild caught. Indian cobras were considered an ugly, undesirable 'junk species' when they were being imported and sold cheap. Once India was shut down for exporting animals, prices started to rise & a few people started to breed them. Throughout the hobby people suddenly changed gears, and Indian cobras became objects of beauty. They got to be pricey and highly coveted. Another example of how price tags influence how we see things.

Keep in mind, what's plentiful and what's rare can change on short notice due to a variety of reasons. Do our opinions of those animals change too, with availability? Are we looking at the animals on their own merits?
Yeah, I think it's pretty pathetic how some people only like something if it's rare or expensive.

I have friends like that, and will never understand it. But each to their own I guess.
 

YagerManJennsen

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@viper69

That was strangely worded, I admit. In my experience with Chilobrachys, they won't burrow at all if you provide enough webbing anchor points. It's almost as if they make their burrows out of the webbing. Not sure if this is what's actually happening, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. If little or no anchor points are provided, they turn into a skittish pet hole.
What if you provide anchor points and they web up but then decide "hey, ill burrow down underneath the web" literally what mine did last night.
 

Jeff23

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As a new person in the hobby I am still buying the base species that all of you either own or did own and have moved on to other new different species. I love the spiders for their merits and their beauty at this point in my interest (and beauty is in the eye of the beholder on everything).

I don't know if I will one day breed them, but one of the problems for me on these new species is the complication of how you would get a female spider. I am less interested in the spider on this thread since I am currently only looking at NW's. I was excited about the beauty of the Theraphosinae sp. 'Panama'. The price is close to $150 for a 1/3" spiderling, but if I want a female I have to play the game of odds and buy multiple spiders (buying three seems to be a good number). So while a spider may not be expensive at $150 it cost $450 if you want your odds to go up so you have a female. Based on this situation it generally also gives you odds of having a male and female but then you sidetrack into the "inbreeding" arguments so you would need a second spider from a different source (depending on your opinion on this subject). So the cost does go up quite a bit if the spider is fetching a large price and you want to one day breed this rare spider. Some of these rare spiders are only available from a single source. I have seen the mention of a few rare spiders where one can not find a mate for breeding here in the US (Euathlus Species Yellow as an example).
 

Matabuey

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As a new person in the hobby I am still buying the base species that all of you either own or did own and have moved on to other new different species. I love the spiders for their merits and their beauty at this point in my interest (and beauty is in the eye of the beholder on everything).

I don't know if I will one day breed them, but one of the problems for me on these new species is the complication of how you would get a female spider. I am less interested in the spider on this thread since I am currently only looking at NW's. I was excited about the beauty of the The price is close to $150 for a 1/3" spiderling, but if I want a female I have to play the game of odds and buy multiple spiders (buying three seems to be a good number). So while a spider may not be expensive at $150 it cost $450 if you want your odds to go up so you have a female. Based on this situation it generally also gives you odds of having a male and female but then you sidetrack into the "inbreeding" arguments so you would need a second spider from a different source (depending on your opinion on this subject). So the cost does go up quite a bit if the spider is fetching a large price and you want to one day breed this rare spider. Some of these rare spiders are only available from a single source. I have seen the mention of a few rare spiders where one can not find a mate for breeding here in the US (Euathlus Species Yellow as an example).
By the way, if you want to buy a Theraphosinae sp. 'Panama', send me a pm, i will send you a link to where you can get one with shipping to USA for $100 - They have 4, 3cm females. From a very, very highly respectable source. Haven't linked it here, as I'm not sure I'm allowed to link things like that.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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By the way, if you want to buy a Theraphosinae sp. 'Panama', send me a pm, i will send you a link to where you can get one with shipping to USA for $100 - They have 4, 3cm females. From a very, very highly respectable source. Haven't linked it here, as I'm not sure I'm allowed to link things like that.
So are you encouraging him to illegally brown box to the US? Or are you assuming he has all the legal paper work?
 

Poec54

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one of the problems for me on these new species is the complication of how you would get a female spider... The price is close to $150 for a 1/3" spiderling, but if I want a female I have to play the game of odds and buy multiple spiders (buying three seems to be a good number). So while a spider may not be expensive at $150 it cost $450 if you want your odds to go up so you have a female.
Based on this situation it generally also gives you odds of having a male and female but then you sidetrack into the "inbreeding" arguments so you would need a second spider from a different source (depending on your opinion on this subject)

- There is no reason to assume tarantula sex ratios are equal. Humans have 3 percentage points more males at birth, but with losses along the way (risk taking, competition for territory/females, and acting stupid in general) by the time they're adults, the ratio is equal. There are many variables in a tarantula's habit (predators, distance to females, concentration of females, foliage cover, etc) that influence whether a species needs more males or more females.

- I usually get 5 to 10 slings of a species at a time, to ensure a female or two. You can also negotiate a better price that way. From what I've seen, overall males have run 60-65%, but that varies per species and is partially luck. It's far more often that I've had more males from a group of slings, than a majority of females.

- Almost all of the species in the US have come from small groups bred in Europe. Most of those are from one time collections in the wild, as it's too expensive to travel all over the world for a few spiders. Since almost all countries have shut down wild animal exports, this hobby would be almost non-existent without inbreeding. How many specimens of Poecilotheria do you think have been collected in the wild?
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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not a big deal, ive bought 3 t's from a guy in germany, why not when i saved over 200$ lol. acting all holier than thou :bored: bet a lot of your ts have traceback to illegal imports from europe, going to sell them now?
I did not state whether I agree or disagree, but merely asked a question. However, you have just admitted you illegally import on a public forum that does not condone, in fact is against, illegal importation. Good luck with that lol...can't wait to see the comments come in :)
 

Jeff23

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- There is no reason to assume tarantula sex ratios are equal. Humans have 3 percentage points more males at birth, but with losses along the way (risk taking, competition for territory/females, and acting stupid in general) by the time they're adults, the ratio is equal. There are many variables in a tarantula's habit (predators, distance to females, concentration of females, foliage cover, etc) that influence whether a species needs more males or more females.

- I usually get 5 to 10 slings of a species at a time, to ensure a female or two. You can also negotiate a better price that way. From what I've seen, overall males have run 60-65%, but that varies per species and is partially luck. It's far more often that I've had more males from a group of slings, than a majority of females.

- Almost all of the species in the US have come from small groups bred in Europe. Most of those are from one time collections in the wild, as it's too expensive to travel all over the world for a few spiders. Since almost all countries have shut down wild animal exports, this hobby would be almost non-existent without inbreeding. How many specimens of Poecilotheria do you think have been collected in the wild?
Thanks for that extremely valuable information. One of the problems I have as a new owner is that I am still reading many threads that are multiple years old. I also am still working for find sources for quantity (going through the classifieds, etc.). So far all but one of my purchases were from the standard internet sources that everybody knows about from Google. My prior purchases of small slings have mostly been counts of three just from the typical odds increase over buying two of them (if assuming 50/50 odds for a female on each spider). And while I really don't know enough to have opinions on the "inbreeding" issue I did notice that some people who worried about it claimed to compensate by insuring the weakest T's from the sac don't survive (leave the slings together for slightly longer period).

I want to also apologize for derailing the subject. I am still a ways off from having the skill to even consider an OW T. The chilobrachy electric blue is definitely a beautiful spider in my view.
 

John Apple

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the illegal activity is still rampant ....still going on....they get busted ...serve their time and then start all over again under an assumed name or a partners name...part of the wholesale to the public situation happening .
ahh but yeah I do onderstand 'electric blue' just don't agree with it . But it did catch my eye more than a location would. I am that guy though that would rather buy a 'location' spider more than a jazzed up adjective spider.
 

Chris LXXIX

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not a big deal, ive bought 3 t's from a guy in germany, why not when i saved over 200$ lol. acting all holier than thou :bored: bet a lot of your ts have traceback to illegal imports from europe, going to sell them now?
lol, you saved $200. 'Cool'. But without the right import papers and that bureaucrecy stuff, brown boxing remain, no matter the happy end, brown boxing.
 

Matabuey

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I did not state whether I agree or disagree, but merely asked a question. However, you have just admitted you illegally import on a public forum that does not condone, in fact is against, illegal importation. Good luck with that lol...can't wait to see the comments come in :)
I don't think anyone actually cares.

The forum is against it to be politically correct, not because anyone actually disagrees with it behind closed doors. If everyone were truly against it, you wouldn't have the tarantulas you do right now, nor would anyone else on this forum.

Illegal importation is what this hobby is founded upon.
 
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Chris LXXIX

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the buyer is not the one who gets in trouble its the one doing the exporting like in every single case thats happened before

so purchasing illegal imported t's doesnt affect me at all and the way they send the parcel has 0 traceback to the sender too, very simple way

dont know why all you lot are caring about illegally imported t's when the majority of your animals have come from illegally imported ts but go sit on your high horse now lol
lol, keep living in your 'Dream World', but reality differs.

The buyer needs to know that what he/she is, literally, importing, if that is allowed by his/her nation laws. And to order T's from Europe (or what else) to US, again, without the proper import papers, is brown boxing. And that practice isn't legal.

Do you think that, if a parcel full of T's is spotted in the airport by the US customs, the ones in troubles would been the guys in UK or Poland or etc and nothing to the US citizen that ordered those? :-s
 

Matabuey

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lol, keep living in your 'Dream World', but reality differs.

The buyer needs to know that what he/she is, literally, importing, if that is allowed by his/her nation laws. And to order T's from Europe (or what else) to US, again, without the proper import papers, is brown boxing. And that practice isn't legal.

Do you think that, if a parcel full of T's is spotted in the airport by the US customs, the ones in troubles would been the guys in UK or Poland or etc and nothing to US citizen that ordered those? :-s
Actually, they go after the exporter. Such as in Sven Kopplers case, they would've had details on plenty of his customers in the US, and guess what..None have been prosecuted, otherwise you'd be looking at 1000's of T keepers in the US being hit with court cases (from that particular case and others).
 

Chris LXXIX

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Actually, they go after the importer. Such as in Sven Kopplers case, they would've had details on plenty of his customers in the US, and guess what..None have been prosecuted, otherwise you'd be looking at 1000's of T keepers in the US being hit with court cases.
I think Sven's case is different because he was an hardcore T's exporter, a sort of 'Boss' at the end. It's normal to stop him. My example was (like happened) the American keeper that order the average T's parcel from UK, or else, without the import papers in full brown boxing. This happened, and probably still happens, of course.

I'm not saying jail or what else, I don't know this. But I think that the bucks saved for those T's 'European steal prices' would crumble in front of the money you will have to pay for importing T's that way. I doubt that, in such a case, someone from the US authorities would knock a UK or Poland, or what else door for that.
 

Matabuey

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I think Sven's case is different because he was an hardcore T's exporter, a sort of 'Boss' at the end. It's normal to stop him. My example was (like happened) the American keeper that order the average T's parcel from UK, or else, without the import papers in full brown boxing. This happened, and probably still happens, of course.

I'm not saying jail or what else, I don't know this. But I think that the bucks saved for those T's 'European steal prices' would crumble in front of the money you will have to pay for importing T's that way. I doubt that, in such a case, someone from the US authorities would knock a UK or Poland, or what else door for that.
It costs too much money to take people to court over ordering a few tarantulas, it's effectively a waste of time/money for the government.

You don't think people that have bought a couple of T's from Europe, haven't had their parcels intercepted? If they had, and were charged, you would most certainly hear about it. And I've never heard anything of the sort, and i have quite a few friends that's keep T's in America. Would be interesting to see if anyone knows of any buyers that have been prosecuted.
 

Venom1080

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not a big deal, ive bought 3 t's from a guy in germany, why not when i saved over 200$ lol. acting all holier than thou :bored: bet a lot of your ts have traceback to illegal imports from europe, going to sell them now?
what your problem?? being illegal, its kind of a big deal..
 

Chris LXXIX

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It costs too much money to take people to court over ordering a few tarantulas, it's effectively a waste of time/money for the government.

You don't think people that have bought a couple of T's from Europe, haven't had their parcels intercepted? If they had, and were charged, you would most certainly hear about it. And I've never heard anything of the sort, and i have quite a few friends that's keep T's in America. Would be interesting to see if anyone knows of any buyers that have been prosecuted.
Doesn't matter: we don't live, no matter how much advanced in technology US is as a nation, in a full controlled world. Yet. It's like playing Russian Roulette. They can't control, check, full X-Ray completely all the parcels, for that we are living in a world where competition is high, and the more faster the parcel/stuff are delivered, the best.

Here in Italy there's folks ordering T's online, obviously. I can guarantee you that, if spotted, they would end in a ocean of poop, without nothing to the exporting guys save for a mere detail note, for that, in those nations, that could be legal, or what else, but definitely "it's the buyer responsibility to know if what he/she ordered is legal in his/her nation".

Btw don't know about the US but here people ends in courts for much less.
 
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Philth

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Names like " electric blue" and "black Satan" are absolutely a marketing ploy. That's obvious.

@tnerd93 You are grossly misinformed.

Later, Tom
 
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Toxoderidae

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@tnerd93 all my spiders are from a couple generations, or MORE of CB babies. a decade or so's worth of CB babies through generations trickled down to keepers like me. Mine weren't brought in illegally, and I won't ever purchase an imported animal without knowing about where they come from and how they got in. Educate yourself before you post.

This thread is about to explode.
 
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