chilean rose nerve problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

peterspiderling

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this was allready done by my friend who owns the chilean rose (im looking after it while her house is being done out), but i have made another vid to show people what she is like, in my opinian she needs to be put down..

she has not eat in over 9 munths, she is unable to eat or drink and i think its crewl keeping her alive. everything spazums, legs, fangs, even the spinarets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AszBJ1yPbPo

so... what do you think?
 

Talkenlate04

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I see she is clearly having an issue, but her abdomen looks ok, I would keep the water dish full still offer food every now and then and see what happens. She might get better she might get worse. I have seen Ts act like that right before a molt sometimes when their senses are dulled some from the newly forming exo. That really might not be the case with that rosea, but the only way to find out is to wait it out.
If she gets worse or starts to lose weight then I'd maybe think about putting her down, but till then just keep waiting.

When was her last molt? And when did this behavior start?
 

kitty_b

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i don't think she should be put down.

the only odd behavior i see is when she's disturbed, and so talkenlate04 may be on the right track with premolt. i had one ultimate male who did very spastic flailing fits whenever there was a breeze, but his movements were much more exaggerated and quick.

also, g. rosea (and several other species) are known to go on very long fasts, especially in premolt. i received a female who hadn't eaten in about a year, and she didn't eat in my care for almost 4 months. are you SURE she's not drinking at some point?
 

jr47

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i honestly dont see what you obviously see. she is behaving like a t that is very scared or really stressed for some reason.
she doesnt at all look like she is starving so at some point she has had to eat something. as far as drinking you dont know if she's drinking unless someone watches her 24 hours.
i have also seen t's act and move the same way when they are scared. they fold their legs around them to protect their body. much like this one. i could be wrong but i think i would leave her be and wait to see what happens.
 

Talkenlate04

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I do see what hes talking about, the legs spiking that high in the air and hanging there for a second is not normal, plus the way she was walking she seemed to be surpised by things she was touching but that can be premolt to. Waiting is all you can do. Don't kill her cause I want to see what happens over time with her.
 

DrAce

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It's not cruel or unethical to keep a spider alive if you think there is a potential chance that they will get better. They do not feel discomfort like you or I do, any more than a potato feels discomfort, so I don't think you should be concerned on that level.

To me, it looks like a strange form of distress... but that's not a perfect explaination, and I can see why you think there is more to it.

As was mentioned before, this could be 'diskinetic syndrome', but that's not a helpful diagnosis, but a description of what's going on (dyskinetic = not moving right). Tarantulas don't move in quite the same way as we do - at least not all of them does. Quite a bit of their movement is controlled by hydrostatic pressure - moving fluid around. That is, of course, also controlled by their nervous system... but it allows for a different set of problems other than 'nerves'. It's possible that there is something congenitally wrong with this spider - it can't move the fluid correctly now it's hit a certain age. That's a possible explaination.

It could be something internally quite wrong from a previous moult - which it's going to require further moults for.

It could be some funny infectious thing.

It could be an extreme 'fear' response, and the poor thing is quite strung out.

Fact is, we can't tell, and the only real way to tell the possibilities out is to wait for more symptoms and to just let it be.

As mentioned above, it looks plump enough. I'd just offer it a cricket once a week, see if it goes for them, and withdraw those not eaten.
 

Alicemolted

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i think dr.ace gave a good overall explaination even though there is no explaination to my tarantula... we just have to wait and see what happens. we gave her a cricket today but again she got very scared and ran a bit. pete said her abdomen is getting a little smaller.. i thought that aswell after she molted (bout a month ago)

ali (owner) x
 

Cheshire

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I'd vote for dyskinetic syndrome.

Keep it alive and see how it goes. There's a bunch of threads on how to make an ICU here on AB. Find them, put it in one for a few days to see if it improves. Pretty much the only thing you can do. Tarantula emergency care is pretty simple, ICU for a few days and it either gets better or it doesn't.
 

Talkenlate04

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Do T's recover from dyskinetic syndrome? Or does it just get worse, I have never seen this first hand but am curious to know what the mortality rate is.
 

DrAce

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Again, to my knowledge, dyskinetic syndrome doesn't tell you what's wrong. It just gives you a name for the symptoms. For all we know there are thousands of flavours of 'dyskinetic syndrome'. I thought of 5 potential explainations above... some of which had positive outcomes.

I'm guessing (read predicting), Talken, that sometimes tarantulas get better, and sometimes they don't. Of course, that's because sometimes they have something major causing the 'dyskinesis' (see... that's even more medical sounding...), but sometimes they have a minor defect causing a major effect.
 

Rathkeaux

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thats a pretty little G. Rosea, I had on for almost 14 years and in that time she went on several fasts(during which she displayed some very odd behaviors) the longest of which occurred before her two molts. (yea two molts in 14 years) They are just oddball spiders. In no way should she be "put down" though, thats just wrong. Phobia exhibited symptoms like that sometimes and then days/weeks later she would be fine. Just leave her be, make sure she has water, I def would not bother her wth any food items for awhile though.
 

138

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looks like something is irritating her footsies. but the substrate doesn't look too moist. :wall: looks pretty healthy otherwise.
 

DrAce

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See, that might be explainable as a nerve ending issue... There are plenty of examples of that in humans, such as erythromelalgia.

There's hypothesis # 6.
 

Mushroom Spore

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Nine months is NOTHING. The record is two years.

Also, I don't see anything wrong in the film, except for a tarantula that is clearly very upset at someone repeatedly poking her, leaning over her, and probably breathing on her. You're lucky she looked more interested in getting away than biting.

There's plenty of butt there, leave her be, she isn't starving or dehydrated.
 

Becky

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Nerve displexia in spiders in an awful thing and you should euthanise that spider asap. An idea of how it feels for that spider.. lay your hand flat on a table and drum your fingers as fast as you can repeatedly.

People saying that the spider looks normal... OK he's poking her but when she walks she stumbles and jolts around. That is NOT normal.

My opinion is to euthanise her...put her out of her misery. She's not a happy spider :( It is also catching so keep her seperate from any other T's in your collection.
 

Becky

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Nine months is NOTHING. The record is two years.

Also, I don't see anything wrong in the film, except for a tarantula that is clearly very upset at someone repeatedly poking her, leaning over her, and probably breathing on her. You're lucky she looked more interested in getting away than biting.

There's plenty of butt there, leave her be, she isn't starving or dehydrated.
Watch a normal spider walk or run away..it does not move like that!
She isn't starving or dehydrated but she is suffering.
 

DrAce

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Nerve displexia in spiders in an awful thing and you should euthanise that spider asap. An idea of how it feels for that spider.. lay your hand flat on a table and drum your fingers as fast as you can repeatedly.

People saying that the spider looks normal... OK he's poking her but when she walks she stumbles and jolts around. That is NOT normal.

My opinion is to euthanise her...put her out of her misery. She's not a happy spider :( It is also catching so keep her seperate from any other T's in your collection.
Watch a normal spider walk or run away..it does not move like that!
She isn't starving or dehydrated but she is suffering.
Becky,

Please read some of the threads we already have had about sensation and consciousness. I really, really don't want to revive them here. Suffice to say that there is not a clear opinion on the board about weather tarantulas 'suffer' in the way you describe. They also don't get 'happy'... or 'sad'. They do get hungry and distressed. In that video, I see clear evidence of a distressed spider, but no particularly good reason to diagnose it to an internal histological problem. Her plump hind-quarters appear to indicate that she has fed/watered adequately. There have been, to my knowledge, no CAT scans, PET scans, biopsy samples, stool samples, haemolymph samples or x-rays done. I also don't recall seeing anyone post "I asked the spider what she was thinking. She said she had tingly sensations in her feet, and was feeling kinda dizzy. My Mum had something similar before she died, and my neighbour had a cold last week. Could you leave me alone for a bit". So really, neither you, me, or the man on the moon knows what the heck is actually going on. Euthenasia seems a little drastic, don'tcha think?

Do you happen to know that 'Nerve displexia' (I have a feeling you mean dysplasia, although I don't know where you're pulling either word from. Displexia is not a word, and dysplasia is not one which fits, although it's the only word I can think of which resembles your one... are you talking about the dyskinetic syndrome above?) is contagious? I don't know that anyone has actually shown (if you read above) that there is a contagious cause for it, or at least a form of it.

Would you like to kill your spider, if you discovered a day later that it actually wasn't a cause for concern? Is that ethically reasonable behavior?
 
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Becky

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Well im sorry.. excuse my spelling mistake then. I meant Dyskinetic Syndrome! ( i know what i meant lol )
No, i would not want to put a healthy spider to sleep if it wasn't suffering... but from what i can see.. that spider is not happy.
Spiders have nerves, therefore they have feelings! OK, it may not be like you or i, but muscle spasms are not nice.
The spider in question has a mild case of the syndrome from what i can see.
I watched the video again and again now. Sorry for my post b4.. Dr. Ace point made :) :D

I'd isolate the spider from the rest of the collection and see if it survives i guess... :)
 

DrAce

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Well im sorry.. excuse my spelling mistake then. I meant Dyskinetic Syndrome! ( i know what i meant lol )
No, i would not want to put a healthy spider to sleep if it wasn't suffering... but from what i can see.. that spider is not happy.
Spiders have nerves, therefore they have feelings! OK, it may not be like you or i, but muscle spasms are not nice.
The spider in question has a mild case of the syndrome from what i can see.
I watched the video again and again now. Sorry for my post b4.. Dr. Ace point made :) :D

I'd isolate the spider from the rest of the collection and see if it survives i guess... :)
See, that's a much more moderate view, and I think (not that my opinion is the be-all-and-end-all) that it's probably the right view.

It was not an intentional pick on your spelling skills. Unfortunately spelling is really important when you're writing medical stuff. I genuinely thought you were invoking some new quasi-medical explaination for what was possibly going on (not that we've actually confirmed that anything IS wrong - it appears that the jury is still out on that).

In terms of 'suffering' - again, there are plenty of threads on the subject. The general AB polls kinda indicate that 1/2 of the people here think they can feel. The majority of those who are considered expert in the field, however, are of the opinion that they can't. I really don't think it's helpful to flesh it out again here (in the name of all things sacred, PLEASE let us not re-hash that idea here). Tarantulas certainly can experience discomfort and stress. I see alot of that in the video. I can't see any clear indications that anything else is actually wrong. There are some odd movements - but stress could be doing that. How else would stress manifest itself, if it wouldn't be strange behavior?

Also, we don't know if the tarantula has anything contagious. I'd be running with a physical defect - it was mentioned that this was first seen after a moult. Perhaps there is a congenital defect present, or a defect in the joints, preventing the hydrostatic pressures to be equilibrated correctly. That might lead to the strange extension of the limbs that we are seeing...

Who knows.

We'd need more info to make any more predictions.
 
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