children & Trantulas

[Paramite]

I don't believe they are over diagnosing as much as we are over polluting american children with the food, air, water they are given. European children don't eat Genetically modified food organisms with every meal. They don't have Human Growth Hormones in their meat. They also don't have 75% of their nations anti-biotics used on healthy livestock. I am sure that these things have some effect on us. NO ONE knows what they are going to be yet in the long term. But there are a whole lot of medical problems in children in the US right now at levels never known in recorded human history. I don't know where europe is in all of this. But there are certainly differences that could account for different rates for different countries/regions. That being said, we over diagnose a lot over here as well. But I just had to point that out. Sorry I am off scorpions. Couldn't help myself! :O)

I can't speak for whole europe, but here in Finland we have one of the world's most working health care systems. it doesn't matter where you come from, or what insurance you have, but everyone gets the same care. And if we are talking about the psychiatric care, they are even more careful. Right now, there's only 5 doctors (or so) in the country who can give that diagnosis, because no one really knows that much about it. Oh, we also don't use Ritalin because there's a similiar drug that works better. We are so far away from the companies, that our doctors can also prescribe it freely.

Don't get me wrong, many things are fu**ed here aswell... It's just that health care ain't one of them.

By the way, we have McDonalds here too. Don't tell me you were under the impression that we hunt our meat. But seriously, I do get your point. It's just that everything you do affects to us. Probably even more than you know.

 

[Jackuul]

Children and Ts... if it's an evil little *****rd then no. But otherwise, it is survival of the fittest I figure. You show them how, you tell them how, you make sure they understand that the tarantula, no matter how docile, still has the potential to be frightened, then you let them over a short drop for the T (on a table for example).

If they get bitten because they are acting moronic - consider that a lesson. Just like with any animal, except the dog*, you annoy it enough to feel threatened and it will protect itself. I mean, it's not like these kids are holding Australian or Sydney Funnel Web Spiders...



*some dogs have learned helplessness and will just shut down, while others may turn and bite. Tarantuals and Dogs are worlds apart, but for some reason Cats are not, because they're all evil spawns of the dark lord that carry razor like claws and a penchant for violence if you pet the kitty too long.

 

[Amelia]

I will get my tarantula at 21. My 3 year old, bug-loving nephew will be on the "No touch. Just look." rule because he is not too gentle with the bugs outside yet, and I don't even know if I will be attempting to handle it. He gets to pet the cockroaches though. I told him I was getting a "big spider" and his little eyes got really wide and he whispered to me "I want to see!"

 

[presurcukr]

i have observed my daughter with her new friends.(we moved recently)when we first came to the neighborhood. all her friends were like no keep the spider in the cage! but as the weeks go by and they see her handling her T's they're like can i hold them too?

P.S. I shot my first gun when i was 11 and was hunting at 12 with proper instruction guns and kids do go together(the only happy memory's of my father i have).

 

[kaydyn1512]

i have observed my daughter with her new friends.(we moved recently)when we first came to the neighborhood. all her friends were like no keep the spider in the cage! but as the weeks go by and they see her handling her T's they're like can i hold them too?

P.S. I shot my first gun when i was 11 and was hunting at 12 with proper instruction guns and kids do go together(the only happy memory's of my father i have).

You are the exception not the rule. I don't imagine there was mention of a responsible, knowledgeable child with a gun. It was an irresponsible parent letting a young child play with a loaded gun. Although for me kids and guns don't go together AT ALL. BUT that is only my opinion and who am I to knock a happy memory you have with your father?!

 

[Nomadinexile]

Can't help myself, got to share

So I took my A. versicolor 2" leg span, up to my local coffee shop last night. I took him to show a friend it's growth since we got it together 6(?) months ago.
I got the versi, he got a pokie. And that's how I got started again collecting. So anyway, up having coffee, and up comes one of our friends with her daughter who is 15 months old. She loves me and paige. I always have animals, paige reads to her. So she was hanging out in the chair next to me, she points at the avic and does her "word" for animals which right now kind of sounds like a pac man game for a second, but it's cute. So I get it out, it's running around on me, and she keeps scooting over closer and gets her face right up next to it...
Then she swung back, looked up at am me smiling, and stuck her finger out on my arm, IN FRONT of the tarantula, (as she had been watching me do with my hand!)
She wanted the T to walk across her finger! I moved her hand and told her she can in a year. I don't know what else to do. She is so smart. She communicates and comprehends amazingly well for a small child. (15 months!) And she does things the right way. This is the same child who got out my giant millipedes one day (when we weren't looking), and carried the biggest one around from table to table showing it to everyone.
It's just so adorable. I will get pictures one of these days, maybe a video. She loves them. It's just too cute. Hope ya all enjoyed.

 

[sean-820]

I re-read your post and I get the same info... your argument concerning why you let handle a T and not a gun seems to concern the fact that guns kill but not Ts...

for me it's not just about killing, but hurting is also to be taken into consideration...

I know that a LOT of things can kill us, everyday's things like a ladder, a car, etc... but prevention is a big thing and to me, not allowing a 5 year old child to handle a Pokie IS only normal prevention.

How can you be against that? At least do you understand WHY some people think like that?

ps : I don't think it's useful to be aggressive or sarcastic in your writin...the purpose of this thread is to share opinions with the help of arguments about to let or not to let children handle Ts...

People arnt saying give a 5yo as S. cal for their first time with a t, they give them a rose or smithi. Pretty much if it bites its not bad and they would get hurt more from tripping on stairs. Obviously there is a risk, but its only a minimal risk and there are plenty of more severe ways kids can get hurt that you are better off woring about.


To the original post, i think there is no real age, just maturity. Im sure plenty of you know adults that you wouldnt trust as if the t bolted up their arm it may end up being thrown. If a child is comfortable enough with a t and they are being supervised i see no problem. Sure the majority of kids i wouldnt trust, but if somebody has been around t's for their entire life, thats different then if they are also new to t's in that case i wouldnt yet trust them. i would probably say a couple year old child is easily capable of handling NW docile species, but i wouldnt do any ow's since they have much less mass then an adult. It pretty much comes down to the kid. If they are comfortable and want to by their own feelings then i dont see why not as long as you think it will be safe for both them and the t and that they deffinitly wont get scared and throw it or anything like that.

 

[Craig]

So I took my A. versicolor 2" leg span, up to my local coffee shop last night. I took him to show a friend it's growth since we got it together 6(?) months ago.
I got the versi, he got a pokie. And that's how I got started again collecting. So anyway, up having coffee, and up comes one of our friends with her daughter who is 15 months old. She loves me and paige. I always have animals, paige reads to her. So she was hanging out in the chair next to me, she points at the avic and does her "word" for animals which right now kind of sounds like a pac man game for a second, but it's cute. So I get it out, it's running around on me, and she keeps scooting over closer and gets her face right up next to it...
Then she swung back, looked up at am me smiling, and stuck her finger out on my arm, IN FRONT of the tarantula, (as she had been watching me do with my hand!)
She wanted the T to walk across her finger! I moved her hand and told her she can in a year. I don't know what else to do. She is so smart. She communicates and comprehends amazingly well for a small child. (15 months!) And she does things the right way. This is the same child who got out my giant millipedes one day (when we weren't looking), and carried the biggest one around from table to table showing it to everyone.
It's just so adorable. I will get pictures one of these days, maybe a video. She loves them. It's just too cute. Hope ya all enjoyed.

I'm not sure that bringing a tarantula to a coffee shop or a similar public place with out warning everyone a head of time is proper spider etiquette. Some people are very afraid of spiders. If some older person saw that it could give them a heart attack. Avics. to tend to be slightly jumpy when stressed. I can just see that creating problems in the future.

Also, I do not think letting a child 5 years old or less have a pet tarantula is a smart idea unless they have heavy adult supervision. It is a venomous animal after all.

Personally when I was that age I had local spiders that I would keep. I also had my first T when I was around 7. I was only allowed to deal with it with adult supervision.

I have an avic. for my daughter. She is 3. I do not allow her to handle it (it is a venomous animal). I do let her touch it. I do now know what T venom would do to a young child. I also do not want to find out.

This is just my opinion though...

 

[Warren Bautista]

My dad brought home my first T when I was 4. We handled her a lot that night.

 

[ballpython11]

Gloves

tell her to were cheap plastic gloves when she handels her tarantulas. Any rash she gets on her hands its because of the tarantulas hairs

 

[Nomadinexile]

1. you live in chicago. it's different here. WAY Different. 2. you don't know this coffee shop. It truly is one of a kind. I've been in 48 states and a lot of coffee shops. 3. very few old people go there, and the ones that do aren't going to keel over dead from the sight of a tarantula! hehe, I would pay to see that though! (that doesn't really happen by the way) Tarantulas can't kill you with their bad looks. I know they are jumpy. I have about 15 of them. I can see a lot of things causing me problems in the future, that ain't one of them! Thanks for your concern though. But there are tarantulas, scorpions and 10"+ centipedes running around everywhere down here. So if you are afraid of Tarantulas, (or your old grandmother is) Tell them not to come to Texas! She wouldn't make it a week on a ranch here without dying straight out! hehehehe Sorry, man, I am not trying to be rude or anything, but I am an adult and aware of my surroundings and behave more than appropriately. I understand that "coffee shops" in chicago would have a problem with that. I lived in South Bend, IN and my brother lives in chicago now. My uncle has a key to the city. I know. But I don't live in chicago. And this coffee shop doesn't care. The owner was sitting with us for part of the time last night. I am providing my local community with positive arachnid interactions, (they usually go under someones boot here), and have provided our local children's imaginations with fodder for years to come. I wish you could see and understand what you are commenting on..... You would feel differently if you knew what was going on.... Peace, Ryan

I'm not sure that bringing a tarantula to a coffee shop or a similar public place with out warning everyone a head of time is proper spider etiquette. Some people are very afraid of spiders. If some older person saw that it could give them a heart attack. Avics. to tend to be slightly jumpy when stressed. I can just see that creating problems in the future.

 

[JC]

Well at least you know where to go. One time I brought my Ball python into my dad's electronics shop, and one of the customers nearly had a heart attack! I didn't even notice him until I turned around to leave and spotted the poor guy cramming himself into a corner looking like he saw a Satan himself! Felt pretty bad for him and so I just ran out to save him some more embarrassment.

 

[Craig]

I used to live in the southwest and I am well aware one can walk out in their backyard and find a scorp. or a T.

I would think that in an area where there are actually semi dangerously venous creatures some of the people would be apprehensive. I still stand by the fact that it was an idea that was not so good. Just think if it did freak someone out and the local government tried to ban tarantula ownership.

I am sure that the people with the burm. that killed the child thought it was an acceptable idea to have a large snake in a home with a child.

I was not trying to be mean... please consider the repercussions of bringing an animal that people are afraid of in public with out advance warning.

To illustrate my point..


[YOUTUBE]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmbv8kevQ-E&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmbv8kevQ-E&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Steve Calceatum]

Well Craig.....everyone's different. Some more strongly opinionated than others. It should go without saying that you generally don't bring these things out into public, but there are exceptions. Maybe this coffee shop is one for insect geeks....or other weirdness (believe me, I live in Portland Oregon...there's weirdness and eccentricism afoot here all the time). How about educational demonstrations? There are those who take their T's to these things and show them off to ALOT of people....some of these people may, in fact, be scared of these things.

As for the children and T's thing: It's an individual choice of the parent. I am a parent, with children ages 5 and 4. I recently bought my kids "Their very first tarantula!!" Of course, it stays at daddy's house, and I'll probably be the one keeping it for the rest of it's natural life. But it makes the kids feel special....it lets them engage with me on a more "grown-up" level (they know the scientific names of our pets, and a few others), and provides endless fun weekend excursions to the LPS (and they point out to the staff that the LPS "needs to get a Pokie so daddy can rescue it" :8o ). And the T will be there for them to take on when they are ready, IF they so choose. The point I'm trying to make is that only the parents know their children, their T's, and their responsibilities to BOTH offspring and pets.

My son, Erik, with his little friend, "Jasmine:"

 

[T_DORKUS]

I used to live in the southwest and I am well aware one can walk out in their backyard and find a scorp. or a T.

I would think that in an area where there are actually semi dangerously venous creatures some of the people would be apprehensive. I still stand by the fact that it was an idea that was not so good. Just think if it did freak someone out and the local government tried to ban tarantula ownership.

I am sure that the people with the burm. that killed the child thought it was an acceptable idea to have a large snake in a home with a child.

I was not trying to be mean... please consider the repercussions of bringing an animal that people are afraid of in public with out advance warning.

To illustrate my point..


[YOUTUBE]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmbv8kevQ-E&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmbv8kevQ-E&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

Great video- thanks for sharing.

 

[violentblossom]

I have a 16 month old daughter and I'd never let her hold my T's at her age.

She loves animals but she doesn't really comprehend that the spider could cause her harm.

I don't think I'd let my 4 year old niece hold my T's, either, and not so much for her health, but for the spider's.

 

[Nomadinexile]

Where to begin??

If you used to live here, you would know that T's are about the least likely thing to cause you harm around here. I am up to my ears in scorpions every week here and it's still the sticker bushes, yucca, cactus and skeeters that cause me the most harm. Oh, and I fell pretty good on my knee last trip. Even ranchers around here who don't like them don't consider them real dangerous compared to some of their steers. (And thats scorpions!) Ha, Tarantulas? Most of them caught them as kids at one point. Scorpions as often as not as well.
If the government banned tarantula ownership because someone "freaked out" over my 2" versi on me at a coffee shop, outside none the less!, we will know we truly live in a FASCIST STATE. I mean really. That's just silly to me craig. And I don't mean that to be a jerk, and I believe you are entitled to your opinion.. But that's just too much. Heck, in texas, you know what you need to get a permit for a high caliber weapon, silencer, or automatic permit???? Um, you have to get your federal permit, which just makes sure you aren't a felon or violent criminal. No personality, IQ, or Knowledge test required. SO, if that's how it's gonna be, I will move to south america and just live amongst them.
Large Burmese Python? Is that really what you are going to use as your comparison to my 2" Avicularia versicolor that's been held by tons of people, without freaking out, that comes out in room full or 3rd graders who come running up so they are a foot away from me without even startling it??
Should these schools be chastised for letting such a "dangerous" animal in??
Really? Come on craig, you are going to have to do better than that.
I think of the reprocussions of everything I do anymore craig. We live in a crazy stupid world. With messed up morals, backwards priorities, and a nation of zombies walking around crying cause they can't go shopping for junk at walmart everyweek, california's paying bills with IOU's, while meanwhile, 1 in 10 of the worlds prisoner's or americans!! Never mind the fact that our "commander in chief", using powers instituted by dictator bush, can "detain" an american citizen, indefinately, without counsel or trial, and subject that american to torture, on the word of one man. So you don't have to tell me. I am aware of all the crazy stuff going on. Trust me. But this isn't a problem. You just have no idea. Maybe someday, you can make it this way, I can take you and one of my t's for coffee, and I can show you.
As far as your movie goes, I don't watch them. I don't watch commercial entertainment with only a very few exceptions. I watched 10 seconds of it, and that was too much. You can make all sorts of points. But you just can't even comprehend what you are talking about. Someday, hopefully you will.......

I used to live in the southwest and I am well aware one can walk out in their backyard and find a scorp. or a T.

I would think that in an area where there are actually semi dangerously venous creatures some of the people would be apprehensive. I still stand by the fact that it was an idea that was not so good. Just think if it did freak someone out and the local government tried to ban tarantula ownership.

I am sure that the people with the burm. that killed the child thought it was an acceptable idea to have a large snake in a home with a child.

I was not trying to be mean... please consider the repercussions of bringing an animal that people are afraid of in public with out advance warning.

To illustrate my point..


[YOUTUBE]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmbv8kevQ-E&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jmbv8kevQ-E&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Craig]

lol... dude, I was saying that I thought you made a bad decision. You are obviously free to do what ever you want. I'm not going to argue the point anyone. I think this discussion has gotten really stupid really fast.

 

[killy]

Okay, maybe this will lighten things up .. I'm borrowing this from my intro post - When I was in grade school, 11 years old and living in San Bernardino, I captured a big brown California tarantula, brought it home, set it up in a shoe box, and fed it meal worms, which it devoured with gruesome gusto. Life was good! A couple of days later I got summoned to the principal's office for an emergency call from my hysterical mother. It seems the tarantula escaped inside the house, our cleaning lady had climbed onto the dining room table and wouldn't come down, mom was petrified, and made me come home and re-capture my pet T RIGHT THEN! Dad made me release it back into the wild that afternoon.

That was 45 years ago.

My involvement with tarantulas went dormant until last May, where I was introduced to a beautiful Mexican Red-Knee and a stately Chaco Gold-Knee at the L.A. Museum of Natural History Bug Fair, up-close-and-personal style, and I'm in love again. There were tons of kids, of all ages, at this fair, learning about bugs, and (more to our point), tarantulas, including safe ways to handle them. There was a terrible accident that afternoon involving the same "demo"
B smithi that I mentioned earlier - I went back to see her before I left for the day, and I was informed that a lady - an adult, mind you - was holding her, had a sudden anxiety attack, flinched, and dropped the smithi to the floor - we all know the end of that story.

Okay, three common denominators here to my way of thinking: adults - total wussies when it comes to stuff like this (present company excepted) -; children, totally okay with all of it :clap:; - tarantulas, the innocent and oft-demonized victims :wall: ... I know what you're thinking .. "Killy is way over-generalizing here" and you're certainly right, but I'm just sayin' ...

 

[Nomadinexile]

One last time with Craig

Look, cut out the preachy junk. Reread the post you wrote to me. You made the conversation stupid. You're comments were ridiculous. I don't think you actually have a grip on reality, and need to live a little. Get out, get a baby sitter this weekend. Something other than chastising me and my choices! If you have something positive/constructive/ or interesting to say, please come back and talk with me on a thread sometime. If you want to tell me I am putting people, the hobby, my friends child, old ladies in danger, I am going to tell you what a nut you are. Sorry, I don't know what else to say...
Now, I am done with this. See ya in another thread? Positivity please,
peace, ryan

lol... dude, I was saying that I thought you made a bad decision. You are obviously free to do what ever you want. I'm not going to argue the point anyone. I think this discussion has gotten really stupid really fast.