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gusman1204

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
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Mar 12, 2004
Messages
126
It's funny how lots of people made a comment that a frozen one would b just as good and it would be way more humane. I don't think you people realize that frozen mice and rats that you buy arent just born dead. They die quite a horrible death being frozen alive and that doesnt take 10-20 seconds like the video, it could take hours of sufferring, so think before you judge on whats not humane and what is
 

pategirl

Arachnoangel
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Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
788
Most companies that sell frozen feeders don't freeze the mice alive, they use CO2 to euthanize the animals. It's supposedly painless, but I don't know from personal experience. IMO, the gas would probably be a lot less painful for the creature than being ripped apart by a fish. Plus, the thawed rodent would be less likely to transmit bacteria and such things to the fish.
 

WhyTeDraGon

Arachnoprince
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Oct 5, 2003
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Buggin said:
So snapping its neck is the prescribed method.
:rolleyes:

Tell the mouse that, I guess we will just have to say we will agree to disagree.

Have a nice day.
I think everyone has their own beliefs about this, and yes, it is nature's way most of the time that animals suffer before they die. But where does human emotion come in? Can't people think of it as a chance to 'spare' this one animal pain and suffering, even if it isnt "nature's way"? Come on, I could never take pleasure in watching a living creature in pain, even if it is nature's way. If there is a more effective way of doing it, then go for it. Those phirana would have taken that mouse dead, and it wouldn't have had to suffer. These people aren't doing it to go with "nature's way", they're sick and they enjoy watching defenseless creatures suffer. :wall:
 

WhyTeDraGon

Arachnoprince
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gusman1204 said:
It's funny how lots of people made a comment that a frozen one would b just as good and it would be way more humane. I don't think you people realize that frozen mice and rats that you buy arent just born dead. They die quite a horrible death being frozen alive and that doesnt take 10-20 seconds like the video, it could take hours of sufferring, so think before you judge on whats not humane and what is
this method is WRONG also. C02 is more humane, IMO.
 

The Juice

Arachnoangel
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May 24, 2003
Messages
826
I am planning on getting a pair of Pirahnas when I get my Income Tax check, But I think I will stick to just Gold Fish and Minnows. Is it cruel to feed live Fish to Parahna's or is it just Mice? or any feeder animal we have a soft spot for? I don't like mice or Rats but I couldn't watch one be Tortured like that. But I was wondering how many People feed their Snakes live prey? I think getting the life squeezed out of you, or being swallowed alive is Cruel and the Mice/Rats suffer. I kinda feel sorry for the Pinkie Mice my Leopard gecko swallows whole, and it's squirming and Sqeeking. But that is how it feeds, But I don't get my Jolly's out of watching this though.
 

RaZeDaHeLL666

Arachnodemon
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Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
760
My mother had Piranha Fish and that rat wouldn have been just the appetizer. ;P
 

RaZeDaHeLL666

Arachnodemon
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GUSTO said:
I am planning on getting a pair of Pirahnas when I get my Income Tax check, But I think I will stick to just Gold Fish and Minnows. Is it cruel to feed live Fish to Parahna's or is it just Mice? or any feeder animal we have a soft spot for? I don't like mice or Rats but I couldn't watch one be Tortured like that. But I was wondering how many People feed their Snakes live prey? I think getting the life squeezed out of you, or being swallowed alive is Cruel and the Mice/Rats suffer. I kinda feel sorry for the Pinkie Mice my Leopard gecko swallows whole, and it's squirming and Sqeeking. But that is how it feeds, But I don't get my Jolly's out of watching this though.
You can use frozen mice. I use em for my three snakes and you can defrost them and throw em in the pirahna tank.
 

The Juice

Arachnoangel
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RaZeDaHeLL666 said:
You can use frozen mice. I use em for my three snakes and you can defrost them and throw em in the pirahna tank.

I have heard snakes will not always take frozen Mice/Rats even if you start when they are Babies? What do you then?
 
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Crotalus

Arachnoking
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Dec 14, 2002
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GUSTO said:
I am planning on getting a pair of Pirahnas when I get my Income Tax check, But I think I will stick to just Gold Fish and Minnows. Is it cruel to feed live Fish to Parahna's or is it just Mice? or any feeder animal we have a soft spot for? I don't like mice or Rats but I couldn't watch one be Tortured like that. But I was wondering how many People feed their Snakes live prey? I think getting the life squeezed out of you, or being swallowed alive is Cruel and the Mice/Rats suffer. I kinda feel sorry for the Pinkie Mice my Leopard gecko swallows whole, and it's squirming and Sqeeking. But that is how it feeds, But I don't get my Jolly's out of watching this though.
The point is: why you feed it with live in the first place. Its not the practise itself that necesserily have to be wrong.
But a rat in a piranha tank are as stupid as it gets. A more filthy tank after that is hard to imagine.

/Lelle
 

The Juice

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Crotalus said:
The point is: why you feed it with live in the first place. Its not the practise itself that necesserily have to be wrong.
But a rat in a piranha tank are as stupid as it gets. A more filthy tank after that is hard to imagine.

/Lelle

Yes I agree it's stupid, but would it get the same reaction if it was a goldfish instead of a Rat? People might put less value on a Goldfishes life than a rat but is it really less valuable than a rats? I think people have more of a problem of it being a rat than live prey. My point is some people might not look at the Rat as a Cute & Cuddly pet but just Prey, and look at a GoldFish as cute & Cuddly. whether you feed them a Goldfish or a Rat it might look cruel, But that is the way Pirahnas feed. I am basing my opinion on just the video, not the commentary that I didn't hear.
 

Wolfchan

Arachnosquire
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I have witnessed rodents dying from CO2, and it definitely looks less painful than when I had to watch my ex feed live rats to his pituophis. Yes, I have a soft spot for rats, but even if I didn't, I don't like watching anything die like that. When I worked in a pet store, I hated hamsters as much as any employee there did (which was a LOT) but I never got the same <EDIT>and giggles that my co-workers did feeding them to the T. blondi and listening to them scream.

I do wish I could get the video though, it sounds interesting. Maybe tomorrow I'll feel like figuring out why I can't get it to play. :wall:
 
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orcrist

Arachnosquire
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Sep 24, 2004
Messages
117
I would feel uncomfortable doing that with any sort of prey other than inverts. If I want to watch pirahnas killing something I'd rather observe it in nature the way it happens naturally. There's no cruelty in the way nature works outside of humanity, just the natural order, but it is cruel to set it up for enjoyment in a fishtank when you could prevent the prey from too much suffering without upsetting the natural order.
 

Crotalus

Arachnoking
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GUSTO said:
Yes I agree it's stupid, but would it get the same reaction if it was a goldfish instead of a Rat? People might put less value on a Goldfishes life than a rat but is it really less valuable than a rats? I think people have more of a problem of it being a rat than live prey. My point is some people might not look at the Rat as a Cute & Cuddly pet but just Prey, and look at a GoldFish as cute & Cuddly. whether you feed them a Goldfish or a Rat it might look cruel, But that is the way Pirahnas feed. I am basing my opinion on just the video, not the commentary that I didn't hear.
Probably not. And if you feed the piranhas a kitten then you get a even worse response. What is the point of doing that when you can feed it goldfish or other fish which is more suitable for your piranhas and for the general maintenace of the tank. Piranhas arent very much into eating rats in nature.. They mainly feed on fish. If these guys have other purpose then the pure thrill of a kill then im santa claus..
Then what people think is cute or not makes no difference to me. I just cant stand morons like that.

/Lelle
 

edesign

AB FB Group Moderatr
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Apr 23, 2004
Messages
2,104
Buggin said:
Maybe you should start raising Butterflies.
people make good bear food, sometimes alligators/crocodiles, etc...but talk to anyone who's been attacked by one and survived and they'll tell you how much it hurts. I dont like rats...i don't really care for rodents but they do feel pain and if you have a way to spare them that pain, it is your moral responsibility to do so.

Do you feed dogs and cats live animals? I bet you go to the store and buy them dog/cat food...in the wild they would eat lizards, mice, birds, rabbits, etc. Being ripped apart can't be a fun way to die, and to try and justify it by saying it's "nature's way" is wrong. Things happen in nature all the time, people get sick and die...but we do what we can to ease their suffering. Our pets get terminally sick or mortally injured and those of us who can afford it will take them to the vets and have their suffering eased. Just because it's prey does not mean it should give up the "luxury" (not the word I wanted to use, but I won't call it a "right") of the least painless death. Asphyxiation is probably a lot less painful than having a leg torn off and the rest of your body ripped apart, snapping an animals neck usually results in instant death...not much pain there either.

Might want to do some thinking on your viewpoint about this...it seems to be a little skewed. Perhaps you need to be a feeder animal yourself one time...so you get the full perspective. ;)
 

misfitsfiend

Arachnobaron
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Aug 4, 2004
Messages
381
Buggin said:
Dead or Alive, it makes no difference its a feeder animal.

I agree, I dont like rodents at all, they are just feeder animals to me, but throwing one in, just to see it suffer is deffinately disturbing. I almost always use live feeders for my snakes, but its only because I think that the snake enjoys it more when it has to hunt. No matter how much I may not like rodents I would never do something like that. I agree with who ever said a f/t mouse would have worked just as well, or even a piece of fresh liver or heart.
 

misfitsfiend

Arachnobaron
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Aug 4, 2004
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381
edesign said:
people make good bear food, sometimes alligators/crocodiles, etc...but talk to anyone who's been attacked by one and survived and they'll tell you how much it hurts. I dont like rats...i don't really care for rodents but they do feel pain and if you have a way to spare them that pain, it is your moral responsibility to do so.

Do you feed dogs and cats live animals? I bet you go to the store and buy them dog/cat food...in the wild they would eat lizards, mice, birds, rabbits, etc. Being ripped apart can't be a fun way to die, and to try and justify it by saying it's "nature's way" is wrong. Things happen in nature all the time, people get sick and die...but we do what we can to ease their suffering. Our pets get terminally sick or mortally injured and those of us who can afford it will take them to the vets and have their suffering eased. Just because it's prey does not mean it should give up the "luxury" (not the word I wanted to use, but I won't call it a "right") of the least painless death. Asphyxiation is probably a lot less painful than having a leg torn off and the rest of your body ripped apart, snapping an animals neck usually results in instant death...not much pain there either.

Might want to do some thinking on your viewpoint about this...it seems to be a little skewed. Perhaps you need to be a feeder animal yourself one time...so you get the full perspective. ;)
I couldnt agree more, But I think snakes kill mice humainly, They suffocate or die quickly of invenomation. Thats why I dont mind feeding live mice to them.
 

versimomma

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
206
I think that video is horrible and disturbing and I hope no children watch it who keep pet rats!That would be illegal in this country. The people who did that are cruel. I am glad I didnt hear the laughing.
 

SpaceHawk

Arachnoknight
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Jan 9, 2005
Messages
216
Watching an animal die whether it is a feeder animal or not still doesn't mean you have to act like there is no respect about what is happening to it. I hunt ducks and rabbits with my hawks (for falconry) and I respect the hell out of what I chasing with them. I still like ducks and rabbits and I would save their lives if they were in pain or needed help, even though my birds eat them. Have some respect, feeder rat or not. I don't let my birds sit on a dying rabbit for 5 minutes picking at it, if she catches one I break its neck so it doesn't suffer.
 
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