Can't keep Brachypelma smithi alive

[l4nsky]

Do you use standardized enclosures or were they all kept in different sizes with different ventilation patterns?

 

[TheraMygale]

I get my tarantulas from the same place. Unless the b smithi he has come from somewhere else. I have two b hamoriis. I dont think they deal with a hundred different breeders. And this place doesnt buy from just anywhere.

doesnt mean there isnt a problem down the line in the breeding stock.

my two b hamoriis are probably sack mates and have made it past 1 inch. Could be at 1 1/2 now though. Im wondering if the fact that its our winters that affect something.

have the deaths always happened on a cycle in winter months?

at this point @A guy, we are looking into micro details.

considering he breed t seladonia, the fact that the b smithis are not making it is odd.

could be all the way down to the breeding pair.

if you’re able to get the details of the breeder, you might be able to write to them and investigate.

 

[A guy]

Do you use standardized enclosures or were they all kept in different sizes with different ventilation patterns?

Delicups, same size but kinda varies with ventilation. Overall, basically kept identical to my other Brachypelma species that are thriving

 

[A guy]

I get my tarantulas from the same place. Unless the b smithi he has come from somewhere else. I have two b hamoriis. I dont think they deal with a hundred different breeders. And this place doesnt buy from just anywhere.

doesnt mean there isnt a problem down the line in the breeding stock.

my two b hamoriis are probably sack mates and have made it past 1 inch. Could be at 1 1/2 now though. Im wondering if the fact that its our winters that affect something.

have the deaths always happened on a cycle in winter months?

at this point @A guy, we are looking into micro details.

considering he breed t seladonia, the fact that the b smithis are not making it is odd.

could be all the way down to the breeding pair.

if you’re able to get the details of the breeder, you might be able to write to them and investigate.

I'm pretty sure for Brachypelma species, they have a go to breeder and that same breeder also supplies the US stock, from what I was told.

No, they die on different seasons.

I've literally tried everything. More ventilation, less ventilation, moist substrate, dry substrate, lower temps, higher and temps in between but nothing.

Brachypelma smithi is a bigger hurdle for me than my high altitude Hapalotremus species.

 

[l4nsky]

I have B. boehmei and baumgarteni at the same time as my first smithi, they're all kept with identical husbandry and those ones are thriving.

So, I think that actually tracks as I believe baumgarteni's closest genetic relative is boehmei, so being able to survive in similar conditions isn't too far of a stretch, but don't quote me on that as I'm far from an expert with the genus.

I've literally tried everything. More ventilation, less ventilation, moist substrate, dry substrate, lower temps, higher and temps in between but nothing.

I'm not so much interested in amount of ventilation as I am in placement of ventilation on the enclosure. Has that stayed consistent?

Also, what conditions are you finding the corpses in (ie death curl, legs stretched out, immediate mold, etc)?

 

[A guy]

I'm not so much interested in amount of ventilation as I am in placement of ventilation on the enclosure. Has that stayed consistent?

Also, what conditions are you finding the corpses in (ie death curl, legs stretched out, immediate mold, etc)?

Nope, I've tried top, side, both and literally everywhere.

If I remember correctly, the first one was in death curl and the other two weren't. I wouldn't know that they were dead if I didn't try to move them

 

[Wolfram1]

pictures of the enclosure & ventilation may help

if i understand you correctly the last one is not dead yet. how do you determine it is doing badly? The way it moves? Can you describe it in detail please.

why not try getting captive bred slings? do these come from the brachypelma breeder in mexico or are these WC, that might be a reason why they are having a harder time adapting to captivity

 

[A guy]

pictures of the enclosure & ventilation may help

if i understand you correctly the last one is not dead yet. how do you determine it is doing badly? The way it moves? Can you describe it in detail please.

why not try getting captive bred slings? do these come from the brachypelma breeder in mexico or are these WC, that might be a reason why they are having a harder time adapting to captivity

The last one is still alive but is starting to show signs that the others have exhibited. The way it moves is starting to be slow and lethargic.

I never buy wild caught. These are all captive bred slings.

 

[l4nsky]

The last one is still alive but is starting to show signs that the others have exhibited. The way it moves is starting to be slow and lethargic.

I never buy wild caught. These are all captive bred slings.

Enclosure pics please and quickly.

 

[A guy]

Enclosure pics please and quickly.

Enclosure used for the first ones. Tons of ventilation on the side and on top.





Enclosure for the current one. Lots of top ventilation, some ventilation on the sides, going around

 

[l4nsky]

Uggh, you have a lot of variables here that make it very hard to discern a pattern, but I don't think all of your losses are for the same reason. Was the one found in death curl the same one that suddenly appeared sluggish and not one of the two that passed close behind a molt?

Focusing on the one you currently have, I'm noticing the inside of the enclosure walls have a lot of substrate smeared on them, presumably by the tarantula itself as it's walked around the edge. That's not really going to occur in a dry enclosure as the dry substrate just isn't going to smear and stick across a surface like that and if it was just wet once, the tarantula would have knocked most of the debris off after it had dried, so it's likely IMO this enclosure is being kept a little wetter than intended. Sure some of it could be splashback from filling the water bowl, or the tarantula could have stepped in the water bowl as well, but the overall uniformity across all the enclosure walls suggests otherwise.

if the enclosure is on the wetter side, then the substrate will support exponentially more soil microbes, which would produce more CO2. You have a lot of ventilation including some lower cross ventilation, so I don't think there is an issue with stagnation and stratification, however I think their might be an issue with the soil microbes themselves.

So, take this with a grain of salt, but I think they maybe passing away due to a fungal infection of the book lungs which occured shortly after molting. I've noticed a pattern in some of the losses in my collection after molts where there was a mold within the hides in which they had molted. It wasn't a blatantly obvious thing like a giant mushroom, just a white mold with 1-2mm stalks that blended well with the webbing. My working theory is the tarantula molted and laid down in a patch of the mold, utterly exhausted. At this point, it would likely have it's spiracles wide open to allow as much air exchange into the book lungs as possible, which would mean the animal, in a weakened state, is breathing in these spores which then germinate, infect, weaken the animal as it destroys it's ability to breath, and ultimately kill the specimen a few days later.

I can see this also being your issue because:

• The enclosure, with high moisture, airy substrate, and decent air turnover is ideal for fungal growth.
• The enclosure is small relative to the size of the tarantula, so it wouldn't be possible for her to molt away from any sporulating fungi.
• This is a species that is adapted to a drier environment, so it likely would be more susceptible to a fungal infection then say a rainforest adapted species where fungi is ever present.

 

[A guy]

Uggh, you have a lot of variables here that make it very hard to discern a pattern, but I don't think all of your losses are for the same reason. Was the one found in death curl the same one that suddenly appeared sluggish and not one of the two that passed close behind a molt?

Focusing on the one you currently have, I'm noticing the inside of the enclosure walls have a lot of substrate smeared on them, presumably by the tarantula itself as it's walked around the edge. That's not really going to occur in a dry enclosure as the dry substrate just isn't going to smear and stick across a surface like that and if it was just wet once, the tarantula would have knocked most of the debris off after it had dried, so it's likely IMO this enclosure is being kept a little wetter than intended. Sure some of it could be splashback from filling the water bowl, or the tarantula could have stepped in the water bowl as well, but the overall uniformity across all the enclosure walls suggests otherwise.

if the enclosure is on the wetter side, then the substrate will support exponentially more soil microbes, which would produce more CO2. You have a lot of ventilation including some lower cross ventilation, so I don't think there is an issue with stagnation and stratification, however I think their might be an issue with the soil microbes themselves.

So, take this with a grain of salt, but I think they maybe passing away due to a fungal infection of the book lungs which occured shortly after molting. I've noticed a pattern in some of the losses in my collection after molts where there was a mold within the hides in which they had molted. It wasn't a blatantly obvious thing like a giant mushroom, just a white mold with 1-2mm stalks that blended well with the webbing. My working theory is the tarantula molted and laid down in a patch of the mold, utterly exhausted. At this point, it would likely have it's spiracles wide open to allow as much air exchange into the book lungs as possible, which would mean the animal, in a weakened state, is breathing in these spores which then germinate, infect, weaken the animal as it destroys it's ability to breath, and ultimately kill the specimen a few days later.

I can see this also being your issue because:

• The enclosure, with high moisture, airy substrate, and decent air turnover is ideal for fungal growth.
• The enclosure is small relative to the size of the tarantula, so it wouldn't be possible for her to molt away from any sporulating fungi.
• This is a species that is adapted to a drier environment, so it likely would be more susceptible to a fungal infection then say a rainforest adapted species where fungi is ever present.

No, the one that died in a curl was just found dead without being sluggish. The one that I found sluggish was the 2nd sling and had died without the curl. The 3rd was also not sluggish and had just died without the curl.

Unfortunately, the stains on the sides were always there. I just chose that container for it because it was the first one I saw and picked up. We're close to moving so I don't have a lot of options laying around. It's also an old container.

The substrate isn't wet at all. It's relatively dry and stays like that for the most part. When I overflow the waterdish, I do it where only the substrate at the bottom of its waterdish is moist. I don't allow the substrate to become too saturated because they are species that are supposed to be drier.


It boggles me how a Brachypelma smithi has overly complicated husbandry for me when I've seen people before house these guys with absolute neglect.

 

[TheraMygale]

No, the one that died in a curl was just found dead without being sluggish. The one that I found sluggish was the 2nd sling and had died without the curl. The 3rd was also not sluggish and had just died without the curl.

Unfortunately, the stains on the sides were always there. I just chose that container for it because it was the first one I saw and picked up. We're close to moving so I don't have a lot of options laying around. It's also an old container.

The substrate isn't wet at all. It's relatively dry and stays like that for the most part. When I overflow the waterdish, I do it where only the substrate at the bottom of its waterdish is moist. I don't allow the substrate to become too saturated because they are species that are supposed to be drier.


It boggles me how a Brachypelma smithi has overly complicated husbandry for me when I've seen people before house these guys with absolute neglect.

I am with you on the frustration. And it has me worried about my hamoriis and emilias. I keep my hamoriis like you. In slightly bigger deli cup. One is in a mini faunarium, that was allowed to dry out for over 3 months.

worse part is, i can see those tiny eggmold spores in the very bottom. Its so dry though. I do have over 4 inches of substrate in there. And have only been putting water in one corner. And thats where the hamorii is chilling on and off. The substrate is litteraly dry. Except the water bowl area, and a tiny bit in the hide.

but ventilation is at maximum, and its dry in the house.

has the dealer had anything to say that could help?

 

[A guy]

I am with you on the frustration. And it has me worried about my hamoriis and emilias. I keep my hamoriis like you. In slightly bigger deli cup. One is in a mini faunarium, that was allowed to dry out for over 3 months.

worse part is, i can see those tiny eggmold spores in the very bottom. Its so dry though. I do have over 4 inches of substrate in there. And have only been putting water in one corner. And thats where the hamorii is chilling on and off. The substrate is litteraly dry. Except the water bowl area, and a tiny bit in the hide.

but ventilation is at maximum, and its dry in the house.

has the dealer had anything to say that could help?

They're as baffled as I am cause like mentioned before, this species is supposed to be very hardy.

I have lots of rehousings waiting but I'm gonna do it after we move house. Rehousing to bigger enclosures then having to move in the middle of winter doesn't seem ideal for me and for them.

 

[TheraMygale]

They're as baffled as I am cause like mentioned before, this species is supposed to be very hardy.

I have lots of rehousings waiting but I'm gonna do it after we move house. Rehousing to bigger enclosures then having to move in the middle of winter doesn't seem ideal for me and for them.

It doesnt seem ideal for you either. Its horrible weather right now. I hope for you we get another mild break soon. This week is going to be hard.