Can you ID my Scorpion?

DoubleHighC

Arachnopeon
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Mar 2, 2011
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Hello guys! Can you ID my Scorpion?
Its say's it's a Emperor.. Is it?

Here' some pictures of my scorpion.. he's 4instar.. ^^









Thanks sirs! ^^
 

Michiel

Arachnoking
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That's a bit difficult to say..When I see the shape of the vesicle (venom sac if you wish) it reminds me more of Heterometrus. Instar 4 "emps" should already have some granulations on their chela (claws) and as yours has them smooth, I think it's a Heterometrus sp., but I am not THAT knowledgeable on Scorpionidae, so let's wait what the pro's say about it....
 

DoubleHighC

Arachnopeon
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Mar 2, 2011
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That's a bit difficult to say..When I see the shape of the vesicle (venom sac if you wish) it reminds me more of Heterometrus. Instar 4 "emps" should already have some granulations on their chela (claws) and as yours has them smooth, I think it's a Heterometrus sp., but I am not THAT knowledgeable on Scorpionidae, so let's wait what the pro's say about it....
Thanks sir.. yes ill wait for the pros to ID this.. ^^
 

neubii18

Arachnosquire
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I definately think Heterometrus Sp.,becuase of the claw shape.
 

Chrome69

Arachnoknight
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Either a Heterometrus spinifer or laoticus, wait till next molt for a better ID and try to take a clear pic of the claws and the top of the head for a more accurate ID (after the next molt). Het spp are hard to id especially before adult instar, alot look alike.
 

Galapoheros

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Imo, yeah, that's a Emperor scorpling. I have about 20 at around that size. Same ridges along the chela(5,6?), same look, the vesicle still pretty elongated at that age. Same hint of granulation on that chela as the ones I have also. Shape, size and granulation of the chela change a lot with every molt when it comes to emps. I've had broods of emps, and a few Heterometrus sps broods. It's easy to tell the diff once you take a look in person, with the sps I have anyway. So my guess is that it's an emp. The chela look kind of smooth but not smooth enough to be one of the common heteros in the hobby imo.
 

DoubleHighC

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I definately think Heterometrus Sp.,becuase of the claw shape.
you sure sir? i just wait until it molts to 5i.. i think its to young to ID this.. there's a lot look alike to Heterometrus and Pandimus..

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------

Imo, yeah, that's a Emperor scorpling. I have about 20 at around that size. Same ridges along the chela(5,6?), same look, the vesicle still pretty elongated at that age. Same hint of granulation on that chela as the ones I have also. Shape, size and granulation of the chela change a lot with every molt when it comes to emps. I've had broods of emps, and a few Heterometrus sps broods. It's easy to tell the diff once you take a look in person, with the sps I have anyway. So my guess is that it's an emp. The chela look kind of smooth but not smooth enough to be one of the common heteros in the hobby imo.
thank you sir! i will wait until it molts to 5i.. he's 4i by the way.. thanks a lot sir! ^^
 

Galapoheros

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4i, yeah I saw that. "5,6" I was referring to ridges on the chela, see them on the outside?, common in Heterometrus early instars too though. I get the feeling there has not been in-depth study of early instar differences between species within each genus. I think most taxonomists only work with adults because adults better express final characteristics of the species, and what has mattered even recently is simply IDing and documenting species in the Heterometrus genus. I guess taxonomists would have to get scorplings from positively ID'd individuals to do an in-depth study which would be time consuming, maybe something to do later. I don't think it's been done(?) You have an emp, I'd bet a lot of money on it.
 

H. laoticus

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4i, yeah I saw that. "5,6" I was referring to ridges on the chela, see them on the outside?, common in Heterometrus early instars too though. I get the feeling there has not been in-depth study of early instar differences between species within each genus. I think most taxonomists only work with adults because adults better express final characteristics of the species, and what has mattered even recently is simply IDing and documenting species in the Heterometrus genus. I guess taxonomists would have to get scorplings from positively ID'd individuals to do an in-depth study which would be time consuming, maybe something to do later. I don't think it's been done(?) You have an emp, I'd bet a lot of money on it.
I think it's an emp too. It just hasn't developed those typical granulations yet.
 

Michiel

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I think it's an emp too. It just hasn't developed those typical granulations yet.
Emps do have some granulations on the dorsal side of the chela, from as young as instar 3. It is true that the granulations patterns develop further as they age and the patterns are complete when adult. This counts for both Pandinus and Heterometrus. Because of this, idenfication of juveniles of both genera is very difficult, and in some cases impossible. Also, there is intraspecific and interspecific variation in granulation patterns especially in juveniles, this means that these characters are not that significant as they would be in adults.

Too bad I can't see the pics in the thread anymore. Luckily, time will tell to what genus they belong :) I do know that both P.imperator and a couple of Heterometrus sp. are available in the Philippino hobby circuit...so their are multiple options.
 
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Chrome69

Arachnoknight
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If it is an emp it's a really odd one since your pictures show the chelae have little granulation, here's a pic I just took of my 4i emp, same instar as yours, see if you can tell the difference I see in my scorps chelae granulation and yours then decide if it's a lil closer to a het or an emp.


Notice the heavy granulation on the chelae? Now look at your first pic in the second post of pictures. In my opinion at this instar it looks like a het, next molt will know for sure.
 

dairy

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I know it's academic until it molts again (or even a couple of times) but I'm adding +1 to the Het. species.

Compared to the pic posted by Chrome and the pics I've taken of 4i emps the chela just doesn't look right.
 

Galapoheros

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Granulation on emps can vary at same instars, even in the same brood. Here are some pics of a couple of young instar heteros I have, compare to the emp. It doesn't prove anything but might be interesting to some and to the op. I think one brood I have is 3rd instar and H. petersii. I think the other might me longimanus and I think those are @ 5th instar. I can tell between emps and heteros by defensive behavior alone lol. One sps group, the petersii(?) all have dark telsons at young instars in this brood, don't know if it's typical of the species but my guess would be that it's probably a general trait for the sps, ...of course, I don't know. As I said, I just don't think it's been studied much. I think one reason is that getting scorplings from IDd adults might take a year or more and the priority has been to simply ID all the species and get that straight first.

4th instar emp


5th(?) instar hetero, poss longimanus





another heter sps, 3rd(?) instar, poss petersii(I really need to get the book Michiel has mentioned), they all have the dark telson.


 

Michiel

Arachnoking
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Try not to put too much weight in telson coloration, because this to be regarded as indicator, because of the variations. Rather focus on the shape of the chela, as these shapes are less variable.
 

leiurus02

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Mar 9, 2011
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pif....

it is obviously an pandinus imperator in just one glimps, no worries my friend... to those guys who said it is heterometrous sp. better research more... fyi it is easy to differentiate het sp to pandinus sp. especially when thier already 3i... i have emps and hets in the past years.. so dont worry it is 100% p.emp ^_^
 

Michiel

Arachnoking
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it is obviously an pandinus imperator in just one glimps, no worries my friend... to those guys who said it is heterometrous sp. better research more... fyi it is easy to differentiate het sp to pandinus sp. especially when thier already 3i... i have emps and hets in the past years.. so dont worry it is 100% p.emp ^_^

Where were you all these years man! I needed a good laugh!!{D:D:D:D:D:clap::clap::rolleyes: What a joke:rolleyes:
 

Chrome69

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it is obviously an pandinus imperator in just one glimps, no worries my friend... to those guys who said it is heterometrous sp. better research more... fyi it is easy to differentiate het sp to pandinus sp. especially when thier already 3i... i have emps and hets in the past years.. so dont worry it is 100% p.emp ^_^
lol {D notice he doesn't cite anything in particular as to why he thinks it's an emp. It's as if he thinks that no one else has had both too, I'm not ruling out an emp but like I said at this point it's got more of a lean to a het claw and granulation wise. Next molt will definitely tell.
 
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