Can you Bark?

[MBArachnids]

Hi all,

So I recently started using bark chips to spice things up in my enclosures, it has been going no different for the past 6 months aside from being visually pleasing.(The bark chips are currently in with my Chilobrachys sp Vietnam Blue,P. Sazimai and N. Chromatus) Like I stated above there have been no changes(behavior, mold etc) aside from the visual change.

This morning however I got the idea of building structures from the bark chips. You get different sizes and shapes and with a bit of creativity and some aquarium silicone I would imagine you could build some really nice hides and structures.

My idea would be to take the bark chips and make cylindrical hides or half round hides since cork bark is not readily available here and when it is we pay an exorbitant amount of money for it. I would also use silicone at the base of the hide to prevent it from potentially drawing up moisture from the substrate.

So I would like to hear from everyone, maybe someone has already done it.

I noticed it slow releases tannin when fresh and these are not fresh in my opinion but I am no bark expert. (Also if anyone has bad experiences with this please let me know)

The picture attached is low quality because I didn't want to move the bag and wake the lady, that would be very detrimental to my health.

 

[wesker12]

What wood does that bark come from? Some types of wood make quite effective pesticides (good for reptiles, not so good for Ts)

 

[MBArachnids]

What wood does that bark come from? Some types of wood make quite effective pesticides (good for reptiles, not so good for Ts)

To be honest I have no clue, our local T breeder uses it in all his enclosures and assured me that he has gotten in contact with the manufacturer to ensure it's safe. I am inclined to trust him since he has been using the exact brand for little over 5 years.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Hi all,

So I recently started using bark chips to spice things up in my enclosures, it has been going no different for the past 6 months aside from being visually pleasing.(The bark chips are currently in with my Chilobrachys sp Vietnam Blue,P. Sazimai and N. Chromatus) Like I stated above there have been no changes(behavior, mold etc) aside from the visual change.

This morning however I got the idea of building structures from the bark chips. You get different sizes and shapes and with a bit of creativity and some aquarium silicone I would imagine you could build some really nice hides and structures.

My idea would be to take the bark chips and make cylindrical hides or half round hides since cork bark is not readily available here and when it is we pay an exorbitant amount of money for it. I would also use silicone at the base of the hide to prevent it from potentially drawing up moisture from the substrate.

So I would like to hear from everyone, maybe someone has already done it.

I noticed it slow releases tannin when fresh and these are not fresh in my opinion but I am no bark expert. (Also if anyone has bad experiences with this please let me know)

The picture attached is low quality because I didn't want to move the bag and wake the lady, that would be very detrimental to my health.

Personally, never did it, just because I'm lazy. Lol. However, know some keepers that built hides either to terrestrial or arboreal species and never had a problem. Ts can adapt very well. I think you should try it.

 

[MBArachnids]

What wood does that bark come from? Some types of wood make quite effective pesticides (good for reptiles, not so good for Ts)

Do you have a few examples of wood that they use in the trade that would be considered toxic to spiders in general? Obviously I am new to bark so any additional info is welcome...

Also I have only added it to 3 enclosures for 6 months and I am still paranoid I am just reluctant to change if nothing is wrong, but they do add some very nice landscaping options.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

I think this thread can become one of those "bark is toxin" issues so, I'll drop this link here.

Pine bark

I recently came back into the hobby and need to rehouse some of my females. I gathered some cool pine bark which I've heard is toxic, but I'm not sure if this one still has its toxic traits, considering the tree it was on had long been dead, and if so, would it be maybe possible to boil the...

arachnoboards.com

 

[MBArachnids]

Personally, never did it, just because I'm lazy. Lol. However, know some keepers that built hides either to terrestrial or arboreal species and never had a problem. Ts can adapt very well. I think you should try it.

Awesome, I can understand the lazy part as well...Gluing 100+ pieces together is something I will take on over a few days since I will probably get frustrated

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Do you have a few examples of wood that they use in the trade that would be considered toxic to spiders in general? Obviously I am new to bark so any additional info is welcome...

Cedar and Pine are known for their toxicity and some keepers believe they can harm spiders, that's why I dropped the link above.

 

[MBArachnids]

I think this thread can become one of those "bark is toxin" issues so, I'll drop this link here.

Pine bark

I recently came back into the hobby and need to rehouse some of my females. I gathered some cool pine bark which I've heard is toxic, but I'm not sure if this one still has its toxic traits, considering the tree it was on had long been dead, and if so, would it be maybe possible to boil the...

arachnoboards.com

Thank you, will be sure to have a look.

I will still wait a bit to see if anyone has some 1st hand experience that can share some ideas or tips.

Just out of curiosity the keepers you know, did they mention anything about moisture retention due to the bark chips? I am only asking since I have found a very slight increase in moisture retention since I added the chips. (In my mind at least, I could very well be imagining it)

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Awesome, I can understand the lazy part as well...Gluing 100+ pieces together is something I will take on over a few days since I will probably get frustrated

I use separate pieces for slings, juvies and dwarves, though. Never have a problem with them. Use for scorpions too. Also, I've been using pine barks for decades, the ones some say is toxic, lol.

Thank you, will be sure to have a look.

I will still wait a bit to see if anyone has some 1st hand experience that can share some ideas or tips.

Just out of curiosity the keepers you know, did they mention anything about moisture retention due to the bark chips? I am only asking since I have found a very slight increase in moisture retention since I added the chips. (In my mind at least, I could very well be imagining it)

No, they never mentioned anything about moisture. But makes sense to me too.

 

[MBArachnids]

I use separate pieces for slings, juvies and dwarves, though. Never have a problem with them. Use for scorpions too. Also, I've been using pine barks for decades, the ones some say is toxic, lol.

I think there is a lot of false information out there. I believe in 1st hand experience from other keepers and my own experiences. Too many people come on here and post things they found directly from a google search with no experience to back it up. (Just my opinion)

Do you think the rule of humans apply to T's as well. Where if something is toxic you will need a bigger dose to kill a adult than you would need to kill a child. (This got real dark, real fast) Please don't go experiment by killing 2 humans and seeing if the same applies to slings and mature T's

 

[wesker12]

Toxin lethality is generally determined by an LD 50 test, the minimum amount of toxin to cause 50% mortality in target population then standardized for amount of toxin/kg of host. So yes size difference is important especially considering a sling can be 50x less mass than an adult or more.


For toxic woods, it's a well known fact that certain woods contain pesticides, particularly insecticides which may or may not affect arachnids. Certain things like citrus wood, potentially cedar are definitely a spider repellant at least.

Your right though that most of the plant produced pesticides generally target insects attempting to predate on them and may not have as big (or any) effect on arachnids. Plant compounds that target mites would probably have a negative effect on spiders. I have enough $ invested in hobby that I stay more risk averse than usual. I'll search up some source materials for arachnid specific pesticides and see if I can scrounge anything up.

Edit: Plant based pesticide source for killing arachnids are generally pyrtheroids, produced by chrysanthemum family, just Google wood and pyrtheroids maybe too see if anything comes up. Probably a long shot but I've had a handful of slings die of toxin exposure and it's a pretty shit experience so I'm definitely erring on side of caution.

 

[MBArachnids]

Toxin lethality is generally determined by an LD 50 test, the minimum amount of toxin to cause 50% mortality in target population then standardized for amount of toxin/kg of host. So yes size difference is important especially considering a sling can be 50x less mass than an adult or more.


For toxic woods, it's a well known fact that certain woods contain pesticides, particularly insecticides which may or may not affect arachnids. Certain things like citrus wood, potentially cedar are definitely a spider repellant at least.

Your right though that most of the plant produced pesticides generally target insects attempting to predate on them and may not have as big (or any) effect on arachnids. Plant compounds that target mites would probably have a negative effect on spiders. I have enough $ invested in hobby that I stay more risk averse than usual. I'll search up some source materials for arachnid specific pesticides and see if I can scrounge anything up.

Very interesting read thank you. I had assumed that body mass is important, I was more unsure if a T of any size is exposed to this toxin if it would recover the same. For instance if certain animals are exposed to something no matter the dose the animal will still die, the only difference would be speed of death vs amount ingested / exposed to.

If you have the time or expertise to do that I would really be interested in your findings as would a lot of users on here, maybe a good thread to start?

 

[Dorifto]

The tannin present on those bark is a natural pesticide, so I wouldn't use those barks. The main reason because they hare harmfull for your T, and because they can hurt your T if your T falls into the barks.

 

[MBArachnids]

The tannin present on those bark is a natural pesticide, so I wouldn't use those barks. The main reason because they hare harmfull for your T, and because they can hurt your T if your T falls into the barks.

View attachment 355389

Now I am very hesitant again. My 3 T's have been on sub mixed with this for 6 months with no issues. That could be luck...I hate doing anything without a 100% answer so I will probably leave it for now as my pokies mean more than a experiment. I would maybe consider using a sling from a recent breeding to test...I am just so tired of cork bark being so expensive here and us having to look for alternatives the whole time.

I am considering using driftwood in place of the bark chips then. (Not cleaned with bleach)

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

]

Now I am very hesitant again. My 3 T's have been on sub mixed with this for 6 months with no issues. That could be luck...I hate doing anything without a 100% answer so I will probably leave it for now as my pokies mean more than a experiment. I would maybe consider using a sling from a recent breeding to test...I am just so tired of cork bark being so expensive here and us having to look for alternatives the whole time.

I am considering using driftwood in place of the bark chips then. (Not cleaned with bleach)

Send a message to @boina
She knows her stuff and can provide more evidence based on science about these barks being harmless to tarantulas.

If you search for bark, pine bark, bark toxic or related terms in the forum, you'll find a lot of threads about it too.

I can understand how keepers can be skeptical and cautious towards this issue, though.

Like I said, I've being using pine barks (and plenty other barks too) for decades, even before this whole "toxic barks" myth had spread out in pet trade, none of my ts had any problem with that.

Imo, this is kinda like drowning, you find your tarantula dead in the water dish and thinks "ok, it drowned", when in fact, it was another cause. I don't believe there is any scientifical proof of any bark substance killing tarantulas, but who knows.

 

[MBArachnids]

]


Send a message to @boina
She knows her stuff and can provide more evidence based on science about these barks being harmless to tarantulas.

If you search for bark, pine bark, bark toxic or related terms in the forum, you'll find a lot of threads about it too.

I can understand how keepers can be skeptical and cautious towards this issue, though.

Like I said, I've being using pine barks (and plenty other barks too) for decades, even before this whole "toxic barks" myth had spread out in pet trade, none of my ts had any problem with that.

Imo, this is kinda like drowning, you find your tarantula dead in the water dish and thinks "ok, it drowned", when in fact, it was another cause. I don't believe there is any scientifical proof of any bark substance killing tarantulas, but who knows.

I fully agree, and thank you I will message her tomorrow.

I also understand, I was also surprised that people said the bark was toxic because I couldn't figure out how the T would ingest the tannin..It's highly unlikely the T is going to start chewing on the bark since that's what repels insects, not any smell or fumes as far as I can tell.

But let me message her and I will update everyone here.

 

[Chebe6886]

I wouldn’t use bark chips bc some wood oils have potentially harmful propers and I’d think some spiders wouldn’t enjoy the feel of them
—— Just a little FYI you can order bulk lots of cork bark from Many Taxidermy supply companies. They use them to make realistic mounts. I got 5 pounds for 25$ which is a LOT of cork bark.
2 things to note.
1)Tell them what you need em for bc they can usually send one enormous piece or a lot of smaller pieces .
2) make sure to work with them on shipping options. Get them to pack fairly small and use a slower shipping option. Bc shipping can be expensive.
My first order was one huge piece (I didn’t know better) and shipping was like 40 bucks and they quoted me 15. They refunded me the difference bc I clearly told them to check with me before shipping but was a good lesson to learn
Second order I got a lot of rounds/half rounds/planks and shipping was only 15. 40 bucks for 5-6 pounds of cork bark is crazy cheap retail would have been 200$ or more. Ive even sold some and got a lot of my money back.
So yeh that’s a lot of words but check with taxidermy companies.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

I fully agree, and thank you I will message her tomorrow.

I also understand, I was also surprised that people said the bark was toxic because I couldn't figure out how the T would ingest the tannin..It's highly unlikely the T is going to start chewing on the bark since that's what repels insects, not any smell or fumes as far as I can tell.

But let me message her and I will update everyone here.

Some myths are passed are universal truths sometimes, and people ended not reading or searching properly about some issues in pet trade, unfortunately. That's one of the reasons why I recommend you to talk with Boina.

 

[Dorifto]

I fully agree, and thank you I will message her tomorrow.

I also understand, I was also surprised that people said the bark was toxic because I couldn't figure out how the T would ingest the tannin..It's highly unlikely the T is going to start chewing on the bark since that's what repels insects, not any smell or fumes as far as I can tell.

But let me message her and I will update everyone here.

One drop in the bark could be enough to disolve the tannins. The the could drink that drop of water, and over time get intoxicated. Cedar for example has phenols and some accids that act like natural insecticices, I only mentioned tannins because they were advertised in the same bag of barks.

If you want to use the barks looks perfect to me... but please if something wrong happens don't start a thread like my T had DKS... etc.