Can someome identify?

Kugellager

ArachnoJester
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
2,354
Like I stated earlier its is not of the Centruroides genus nor is it a buthid. The keel patterns you speak of are present on several of the Vaejovid genera. The shape and size of the telson varies greatly in the vaejovid family from long and thin to thick and short. The length and length-ratios of the metasomal segments in this as yet unidentified scorpion are much too short for it to be of the Centruroides genus.

Note the keels on these Vaejovids:

http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/vaejovisRW.jpg

http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/v_spinigerus2.jpg

http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/p_utahensis.jpg

The only Centruroides species present in Texas are C.vittatus and possibly C.exilicauda...This scorpion is neither of these...When Rolando and Chad get back to me we will have a much better idea of it's identification.

John
];')
 

Stormcrow

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Messages
297
Dave, the last note was concerning the fact female Centruroides does not have the elongated metasoma like the males.
 

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
I paid a visit to the pet shop where the scorps were aquired and even more so than I had previously proposed, they're absolute morons. The guy who runs the place didn't know a thing about them and the guy who sold them to me doesn not return to work until Fri. I asked about the dealer and he would neither tell me whom we aquired them from nor give me any type of concern about my concern of the species. He revealed to me, however, that they do not even communicate with the dealer; they simply trade the required information over fax and swap transactions. I told him this was the most irresponsible crap I've ever heard. Not to mention they were selling a Mexican Red Knee for 100 bucks...not that it has anything to do with the subject...lol. I'll more than likley either compose a light setup or have to take the scorpions to my mothers house to photograph because I have tried various shots in my apt. and cannot get the required detail. The light is just too bad for good macro shots. I will have the neccessary provided for you by Fri. at best as possible. Thanks again.

Marcus
 

Kugellager

ArachnoJester
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
2,354
Well, here is Chad's take on the identification of your Scorp Marcus. Looks like there still may be a slight chance of it being of the Centruroides genus. Better pics are needed to whittle the possibilities down. :?

John

Quoted from an e-mail sent to me from Chad Lee:

"My first impression of the pic was that something doesn't seem right ! The chela fingers are long and the carapace seems to match a Centruroides but the metasoma keels/pigment nor the the width don't. However, a cross section pic of the telson to see the subaculear turbercle is what needed to determine a buthid in the western hemisphere respectively. C. vittatus has a few color morph 'populations' in extreme west Texas as does C. exilicauda in its respective range. No reports of C. exilicauda has been confirmed in Texas nor V. spinigerus

Second, Serradigitus could be a possibility based on the chela fingers but a closer shot would be needed to examine the finger dentition. Also, in my original post I asked about behaviors. Serradigitus are rock/crevice dwelling and don't burrow. If this scorpion in the pic is a Serradigitus and is collected from Texas then it was collected in the National Park in Big Bend and is illegal !

Third, Vaejovis by looking at the metasoma segments and keels/pigment I would say V. coahuilae as they are very common. I often call 'em a smaller version of V. spinigerus and both are in the eusthenura group but again, the chela fingers in coahuilae are shorter. V. crassimanus and V. russelli, in another group, have longer fingers than the coahuilae but the width of is greater. Vaejoivis intermedius in the nitidulus group--crevice dwellers--could be a possibility as it is the only one in Texas (nitidulus). Within the groups of vaejovis, trichobothria placement has to be determined by use of a scope as of importance then other characters."
 
Last edited:

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
Well, the guy at the Pet Shop was as helpless as the owner. I was very dissappointed in this. So I have no knew information of that sort. :( I will leave the pictures I took as they are, so you may be able to zoom in with a lot of detail left. These are small scorptions so it is hard to get close and I'm still adjusting to my camera. I'll e-mail you the pics. Again, thanks.

Marcus
 

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
If you like, you can pm me with your e-mail address or I can go ahead and do the best I can at reducing them enough to put on the board with some detail still left.
 

Dr_Strange

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
12
Originally posted by Ephesians
Also...is this emperor gravid? Shes gotten REALLY fat in the past month...
I don't know alot about emperor scorpions, but they do grow to be 4-8 inches, and she being 3in would'nt that make her a pre-adult? Also when do they become sexually mature?
 

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
That's what I was wanering. She doesn't seem the right size to be mature, but I have never owned a scorp of any sort until her. But I mean she is...FAT...not like, growing larger...FAT. Her scales, top and bottom are so far apart it looks like a fat lady in a two piece.
 

Kugellager

ArachnoJester
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
2,354
Well Stormcrow...I must now eat crow pie.

I must remember never to assume what is told to someone by a store clerk is not necessarily correct.

Marcus, that last pic you sent me(a blow-up of the one w the quarter) was excellent in determining that your scorp is an old world buthid and NOT from Texas....as to which buthid...it is not known. Here is a quote from my most recent correspondance with Chad.

Quote:"This picture provides detail unlike the others. It is a wonder how one pic can portray some many images but this one clearly defines itself as an old world buthid. The ridges below the median eyes is one character and the telson as another."

John
];')
 

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
That's awesome. Now I just need to find some care info which shouldn't be too difficult. They've been doing really well how they are so I'm sure much won't change, but it would be nice to know if their are any sting reports and such. I have handled them a few times and they seem fine being picked up by the telison. I was hesitant at first but after about a month of observation I determined that they are extremely docile in nature. The small pinchers kind of set off a few harzard signals...but I know that doesnt' necessarily mean everything.

Marcus
 

Kugellager

ArachnoJester
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
2,354
I'd really wait till I had a better ID on the scorp before I handled them. There are a few old world buthids available in the pet trade that are particularly hot.

As to keeping comditions...most are on the drier side as far as humidity goes and are not obligate burrowers.

John
];')
 

skinheaddave

SkorpionSkin
Arachnosupporter +
Joined
Aug 15, 2002
Messages
4,342
Dag nab it! Through this whole thing I've been suppressing that "looks like a Hottentotta to me" voice inside my head. It looks like a Hottentotta -- a lot like a Hottentotta. Makes sense, too, since the market seems to have been flooded with them recently. Right now I'm really distracted with the monitor lizard thing, so I'm not even going to touch it beyond that, though.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
lol, Dave.



John,

Hmm...so cut the handling, eh? Sounds like a plan. Do you need any more pics? Of the bottom or anything else? I'll tell you what, I definately owe you a huge favor after all the trouble you are going through.

Marcus
 

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
Hm...after examining the picture provided in the Scorpion Files Gallery of a Hottentotta sp.(H. emini or H. polystictus), it appears to be pretty much on the dot, though I don't know key detailed things to look for except for the designings and markings on the tail and telson, the back, and the head area. I wish I could find some more pictures. The color is right on cue, (though you can't tell as much with the pictures I have provided), but still as I am by no means an authority to determine the correct identification of this species.

Marcus
 

skinheaddave

SkorpionSkin
Arachnosupporter +
Joined
Aug 15, 2002
Messages
4,342
Marcus,

Assuming it is actualy Hottentotta, that is about as far as you can reliably go. This genus is one of the few to send the real experts around in circles. In fact, the entire genus is currently under revision, with everyone sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for the results. Myself included, as I have 7 individuals.

If it is Hottentotta sp., then you don't want to handle. They pack quite a punch considering their small size.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Kugellager

ArachnoJester
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
2,354
QUICK update...no time at the moment.

Rolando thinks it may be H.hottentotta.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scorpionfans/message/2990

Better not handle it for now.

John
];')

Edit: I was on my way out of work when Rolando's take on your scorpion popped up on my screen so I thought that it would be wise to post the above ASAP since I know you had handled them.

Anyhow, the link above is a good group to join with many of the top experts in the scorpion/arachnid field if you already are not a member. I'm not an expert either...just an advanced(I suppose) hobbiest trying to learn as much as possible.

John again....
];'o
 
Last edited:

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
Right-O...I'll keep our relationship scrictly plastic bound, hehe. I'm attempting to join the forum right now, but I may wait until the morning because I'm on dial up right now and its less than 24 bits a second...this is pissing me off. It's taking like three days just to view these posts.

Marcus

Edit: 24.4kbs, whatever, it's late and i'm tired :cool:
 
Last edited:

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
Hey, just a quick question about the yahoo groups. Does every post come straight into my e-mail, or just posts directed towards me? I've never used a yahoo group before. :confused:

In appreciation,
Marcus
 

MrDeranged

He Who Rules
Staff member
Joined
Jul 16, 2002
Messages
1,982
Every post if that's how you set up your account. You can also set it to no mail, in which case you have to go to the site to read posts, or set it to digest which gets you one email a day with all posts made that day in it.

Scott
 
Top