Can Feeding Too Soon After a Molt Cause Harm?

[jgaglio1]

My take is that, with the rare exception like Gary experienced, the only thing that happens from feeding a T before they are fully hardened is you get uneaten prey. It's one of those things, like moulting in the first place, that the owner doesn't actually need to put any thought into, the T will handle things just fine on its own, refusing to eat until after it's ready. I've never once seen an adult take prey until multiple days have passed after its moult; I'd go so far as to say, that although I respect Gary's skills and take on things very much, that he's attributing the broken fangs incorrectly to being fed too soon after a moult and that the fangs failed for an entirely different reason.

Any T too dumb to try and use its fangs before they were hard enough failed the trade off game of life and removed itself from the gene pool.

I have to agree with this. I have never seen a T break a fang due to feeding too soon after a molt. I have had adults that did not eat for a month or more and small s'lings that ate within 24 hours. I think there may be a key to this problem in the last sentence. We work diligently to keep all our Ts alive; bad molts, lost bodyparts, etc. It seems reasonable that in the wild there is a lot more natural selection going on and Ts with genetic defects are soon weeded out.
My own approach is to feed only appropriately sized prey when I think the T is ready to eat again. Before a molt I use the same size rule. My experience is that a T can handle an appropriately sized prey item either by killing and leaving it or closing its burrow.

 

[BugToxin]

Their fangs can probably tolerate the crix no problem but my concern (from experience) would be an overzealous T dive bombing the prey and damaging the fangs on substrate/decorations/rocks etc.. I had that happen to a 5" P. nigricolor. Both fangs were lost after the first post molt feeding. I was able to sustain her for some time but she never did make it to the next molt.

G.

This may sound a bit unlikely, but I'm fairly ceartain that I have had this happen as well. I had a 6" T. blondi that I fed one week after molting. I know that she had fangs before the feed, but the next day one was lost. Now I didn't find the lost fang, and I can't be ceartain that it didn't break for some other reason, but I do remember her smacking into her water dish while trying to get the fuzzy mouse I had given her. Luckily she did still seem to be able to feed, although she didn't eat as much as usual untill after the next molt where she grew both fangs back completely. Now I wait a full three weeks before feeding this one and others her size, and about two weeks for smaller T's. Slings I wait only one week.

I would agree that most T's would not likely eat before they are ready, but from my own personal experience I think that it is best to wait. I only had this happen once, but then again I don't really keep that many T's at any one time (I have 10 right now). I just perfer to play it safe, since I can't possibly see how it could hurt to wait a few weeks.

 

[asher8282]

i asked about the chelicera bc i had a little guy lose one, and im not sure if it was due to something during the molt or if it tried to snatch up this cricket too soon.. see, i put the cricket in after i noticed it had molted, but i wasnt sure how long it had been since it molted bc i hadnt had a chance to check on him in a few days. i didnt notice if the chelicera was already damaged before i threw it in or not, so... could be anything.. personally, i doubt it will be regenerated jus bc there is no part of it left, no stub or anything.. but he is stil capable of eating with the other one, so ill jus have to hope he has no more problems...

 

[Henry Kane]

Code Monkey beat me to it... tarantulas arent stupid... its not like they dont encounter prey in the wild after molting... they will eat if they are ready, otherwise, the cricket will be spared... people overly worry about these petty issues IMO, they arent babies...

I wouldn't call a tarantula stupid either but what do you call them, intelligent? Neither word could really apply to a Tarantula so the point is convolluted.
If intelligence (or stupidity) were a factor, I'd have to guess humans to be a sight more intelligent and then consider the fact that we make mistakes, have accidents, hurt ourselves etc.etc. so in contrast, a T would be just as prone, if not moreso by that logic but that's irrelevant...

Even while figuring that T's act mainly (if not entirely) out of instict, I've still seen plenty that didn't quite seem to have a grasp on things. T's are as likely to succumb to unfortunate circumstances by their own "hand" (tarsi?) as are cats, humans, ant eaters etc etc etc........


G.

 

[bananaman]

I wouldn't call a tarantula stupid either but what do you call them, intelligent? Neither word could really apply to a Tarantula so the point is convolluted.
If intelligence (or stupidity) were a factor, I'd have to guess humans to be a sight more intelligent and then consider the fact that we make mistakes, have accidents, hurt ourselves etc.etc. so in contrast, a T would be just as prone, if not moreso by that logic but that's irrelevant...

Even while figuring that T's act mainly (if not entirely) out of instict, I've still seen plenty that didn't quite seem to have a grasp on things. T's are as likely to succumb to unfortunate circumstances by their own "hand" (tarsi?) as are cats, humans, ant eaters etc etc etc........


G.

I think homo sapiens is pretty stupid... and tarantulas are much less prone to accidents than us humans... tarantulas wont endanger themselves, while us humans do so for cheap thrills, boredom, money, etc...

 

[Henry Kane]

This may sound a bit unlikely, but I'm fairly ceartain that I have had this happen as well. I had a 6" T. blondi that I fed one week after molting. I know that she had fangs before the feed, but the next day one was lost. Now I didn't find the lost fang, and I can't be ceartain that it didn't break for some other reason, but I do remember her smacking into her water dish while trying to get the fuzzy mouse I had given her. Luckily she did still seem to be able to feed, although she didn't eat as much as usual untill after the next molt where she grew both fangs back completely. Now I wait a full three weeks before feeding this one and others her size, and about two weeks for smaller T's. Slings I wait only one week.

I would agree that most T's would not likely eat before they are ready, but from my own personal experience I think that it is best to wait. I only had this happen once, but then again I don't really keep that many T's at any one time (I have 10 right now). I just perfer to play it safe, since I can't possibly see how it could hurt to wait a few weeks.

I still don't believe it's unlikely. Couple details I should have mentioned originally, There was a ceramic "cave' hide in teh enclosure and this P. nigricolor had a very bad habit of over-zealously dive bombing it's prey and of the hundreds of spiders I've had, I know the difference between a voracious eater and an over-zealous one. (We're always talking about exception to this and that rule and individual T attitudes here anyways, right?)

Same as you, I cannot be 100% certain as I did not witness the loss of the fangs but all factors, the very recent molt, not yet fully hardened fangs, extremely hyper eater, ceramic cave and so on certainly bring it into a higher likelyhood by my assessment of things.
On top of all that, while some may consider it over-worrying, i see it as "Doesn't hurt to be a little more careful". The T is not going to starve by waiting for the fangs to harden.

G

 

[Henry Kane]

My take is that, with the rare exception like Gary experienced, the only thing that happens from feeding a T before they are fully hardened is you get uneaten prey. It's one of those things, like moulting in the first place, that the owner doesn't actually need to put any thought into, the T will handle things just fine on its own, refusing to eat until after it's ready. I've never once seen an adult take prey until multiple days have passed after its moult; and since I'm also the guy who never removes the cockroaches when a T moults, it's not uncommon for them to have a fresh meal waiting on them 5 minutes after they get back on their feet after a moult. Had they been possessed by some self-destructive instinct, they would have fed much sooner than they did. I'd go so far as to say, that although I respect Gary's skills and take on things very much, that he's attributing the broken fangs incorrectly to being fed too soon after a moult and that the fangs failed for an entirely different reason.

Personally, I don't put much thought into it. I generally don't feed until the week following a moult, but that's just because the Ts aren't going to eat, not because I'm concerned about them breaking fangs. This is a case where you've got to ask yourself where in the hundreds of millions of years that Ts and their ancestors were moulting and grabbing prey was there somebody artificially keeping any wandering insects or small mammals away from them? Any T too dumb to try and use its fangs before they were hard enough failed the trade off game of life and removed itself from the gene pool.

I agree! It's definitely a rare exception and not reason for alarm or anything. I should have listed the much more common reasons like wasted prey, a T's vulnerability to crickets before the exo is hardened, etc.. In either case, I still see the possibility as a considerable factor. (see my post just prior to this one for clearer details) What choice would I have?
*sidenote* it's not like it's some stressful, manic inconvenience to wait to feed the T's anyhow, lol.

I still do not consider my assumption as incorrect. I couldn't sell it as fact, not having witnessed the exact moment but again, a definite possibility in this case. Besides, the T did lose the fangs somehow and given the circumstances, I'd like to hear a better theory.
I also strongly agree with your last remark:

Any T too dumb to try and use its fangs before they were hard enough failed the trade off game of life and removed itself from the gene pool.

If I'm correct in my theory of how the fangs were lost, this could not sum it up any better. Like I said, the T never lived through the instar.

G

 

[Henry Kane]

I think homo sapiens is pretty stupid... and tarantulas are much less prone to accidents than us humans... tarantulas wont endanger themselves, while us humans do so for cheap thrills, boredom, money, etc...

"You think" are the key words here as neither of us know for sure one way or the other. Although what I say is a theory as well, I have as much to back up my assumption as you do to back up your assumptions of humans.
Tarantulas won't endanger themselves? Then why are they preyed upon by their predators? Why are they used as incubation vessels by Pepsis wasps? Why do males get eaten? Why did the tarantula cross the road? ;P

They may not always get picked off for the same reasons we do but that does not mean they never walk blindly through death's door either.

Humans die for a million more reasons than cheap thrills, boredom and money. I hope you're not saying this is all that divides human mortality and Tarantula mortality.
I also hope you're not honestly attempting to compare human intelligence with a T's neural system. As I said, the terms "intelligent" or "stupid' cannot scientifically apply to a Tarantula.



G.

 

[bananaman]

Umm... yes

 

[bananaman]

Us humans have overpopulated the planet, destroyed its resources, killed other species and created unnecessary violence over power and possession. I would say thats pretty freakin' stupid... Tarantulas have lived here for millions of years, yet they havent endangered others nor themselves... Id say they've got a pretty good grip on things...

 

[Henry Kane]

Us humans have overpopulated the planet, destroyed its resources, killed other species and created unnecessary violence over power and possession. I would say thats pretty freakin' stupid... Tarantulas have lived here for millions of years, yet they havent endangered others nor themselves... Id say they've got a pretty good grip on things...

Well, consider this...regardless of how the T lost it's fangs, the fact remains that it did lose them and die as a result. I certainly didn't reach in there and snap them off with my bare hands. That proves that a tarantula can just as easily endanger itself as any other species on this planet.

G.

 

[asher8282]

re

well, my little b. sab molted last night. the way that its built its burrow, i can kinda see in but not super well.. anyhow, this t is the one i mentioned had lost a chelicera. i didnt think it would regernerate at all, but it seems to have regenerated partially.. hes got a bit of a stub now, but it looks kinda rawish.. itll prolly harden up with the rest of the exo, but im worried that it might develope some sort of bacterial infection or attract mites into him or something.. any suggestions or personal accounts would be helpful and appreciated. thanks.