can a mexican redknee tarantula's Venom kill a chihuahua dog?

Toirtis

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I read that tarantula venom is more potent for dogs and cats than it is for people.
1. That is a very broad statement, considering the hundreds of species covered by 'tarantula'. A B. smithi is very much different from a P. regalis. Surprisingly little study has been done in this area, so anecdotal evidence is quite important here.

2. Some extensive research shows no recorded case of any species or breed of Canid dying from any Brachypelma sp. bite...ever.
 

Venom

Arachnoprince
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Try it and find out. Report back with the results. :D;P
 

Venom

Arachnoprince
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Ooh, come on you guys.....I was obviously kidding.



Not that it wouldn't be an informative experiment, though.
 

Hanes

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I've heard reports of a selenocosmia sp killing a small dog but a selenocosmia's venom and a brachypelma's are world's away
 

Venom

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I've heard reports of a selenocosmia sp killing a small dog but a selenocosmia's venom and a brachypelma's are world's away
Yes, exactly. But it's the animal's small weight that is throwing me-- I can envision a B. smithi eating small mammals, rodentia for instance, but where is the cutoff for size as to what it would be able to kill? And...is T-venom as potent in canids generally as it is in rodents? I really don't know. Most of the tarantula-dog encounters I am aware of have been with, ahem, "real" -sized dogs-- retrievers and shepherds etc. What would happen to a Chihuahua is actually very interesting and unknown to me.
 

Musicwolf

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I'm curious as well - - I have 3 scent hounds - - a beagle (30 lbs.) and 2 basset hounds (45 and 60 lbs.). I shudder to think what "could" happen if one of them found one of my pokies out and about - - all three would immediately stick their big 'ole soft noses right down on top of it.
 

Hanes

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Well tarantula's would have evolved so that they're venom is most effective against they're natural prey and predators and I'm pretty sure brachypelma's aren't on a small dog's menu so you expect the venom to not be especially potent. However if you were to take humans for an example, just because a human hasn't offically been recorded to have died from a tarantula bite doesn't mean it hasn't or won't happen
 

T-Harry

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There is a scientific publication about the consequences of a T bite for humans and dogs:
Isbister, G.K., Seymore, J.E., Gray, M.R., Raven, R.J. (2003): Bites by spiders of the family Theraphosidae in humans and canines, Toxicon 41: 519-524
It states that T bites that caused only local pain and swelling in humans are highly toxic in dogs. All researched cases about dogs bitten by T's ended fatal.

Also it is not possible to say that a T species that seems to be less toxic for humans is also less toxic for other lifeforms:
Escubas P., Rash, L. (2004): Tarantulas: eight-legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists, Toxicon 43:555-574
They did tests with T venom and mice. The venom of various T's was injected in the mouses' brain and then the time until death was meassured. Among the T's that killed fastest were not only some OWT's but also Grammostola rosea, Grammostola actaeon, Avicularia urticans and Theraphosa blondi.
 
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Venom

Arachnoprince
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There is a scientific publication about the consequences of a T bite for humans and dogs:
Isbister, G.K., Seymore, J.E., Gray, M.R., Raven, R.J. (2003): Bites by spiders of the family Theraphosidae in humans and canines, Toxicon 41: 519-524
It states that T bites that caused only local pain and swelling in humans are highly toxic in dogs. All researched cases about dogs bitten by T's ended fatal.

Also it is not possible to say that a T species that seems to be less toxic for humans is also less toxic for other lifeforms:
Escubas P., Rash, L. (2004): Tarantulas: eight-legged pharmacists and combinatorial chemists, Toxicon 43:555-574
They did tests with T venom and mice. The venom of various T's was injected in the mouses' brain and then the time until death was meassured. Among the T's that killed fastest were not only some OWT's but also Grammostola rosea, Grammostola actaeon, Avicularia urticans and Theraphosa blondi.
Thank you T Harry, that was very informative! :clap:
 

Musicwolf

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:eek: I will be exceptionally careful to keep my hounds out of the T room then.

and yes, thanks for the info. T-Harry - it's very helpful.
 

Toirtis

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Isbister, G.K., Seymore, J.E., Gray, M.R., Raven, R.J. (2003): Bites by spiders of the family Theraphosidae in humans and canines, Toxicon 41: 519-524
It states that T bites that caused only local pain and swelling in humans are highly toxic in dogs. All researched cases about dogs bitten by T's ended fatal.

I should like to see that data...have you the paper, or a link to it?
 

T-Harry

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I should like to see that data...have you the paper, or a link to it?
I have a copy of ARACHNE, the German arachnid keeper society's bi-monthly magacine where this paper was quoted in an article about the poisons of birdspiders (Dörr, T. (2005): Die Gifte der Vogelspinnen (Theraphosidae), Arachne 10 (4), 10-24).

If you're interested in reading the whole article in Englsh you can try to get your hands on Toxicon, volume 41, in any scientific library or you can purchase the article in pdf-format here: sciencedirect.com
 

Zoltan

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Ahem... I'll gladly send it to anyone, but you guys will need to give me your e-mail address. I can't send it via PM and I can only send text via the board's e-mail function. ;)
 
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