C. Lividus as first OW and fossorial

[viper69]

Agreed. Pretty mild mannered in comparison and no where near as sensitive in regards to soil moisture levels.

all true!

I’ve seen you on this site while I’ve lurked. I will 100% look into them and respect your thoughts. I still am curious as to specifics as what should deter me from C. Lividus. This is not a challenge so much as a genuine inquisitive question, I want details on your insight.

edit: the darlings?

My thoughts are based on: my own experience, readings here, and the insight of of true OW breeders and OW keepers with far more experience than me- members no longer here. Masters of OWs!

can’t say what you will succeed or fail with - don’t know you.

I provide advice for the general population at large.

Ceratogyrus have always been the starter OW genus since before I was involved in OWs

They are simply more calm, not nearly as fast or unpredictable IME relative to the species you ask about.
Their husbandry is less complex generally than those blue devils

As you move further East from the NW generally the species are faster and less predictable.

A general analogy is a Rose Hair vs an Ephebopus.

Both are manageable, but one is far easier to maintain both from husbandry and disposition.

while both NWs they are “worlds apart”

There are worse species to start OW with than my favorite blue hell spawns.

There are MOST definitely better OW species to start with

 

[Xenocide]

So, I'm not saying don't do it (I'd be a hypocrite if I did, I started with OW's), but the problem with C. lividus as a first is you're taking on two challenges, each with high learning curves, at once, that being an OW and a moisture dependent species. Better to isolate those two challenges (for example, start with an Ephebopus sp and then get into OW's or start with a Ceratogyrus sp and then get into moisture dependent species) instead of taking them both on at the same time. If you still want to go for it, then research, research, and more research.

I’m definitely research dependent, (maybe obsessively) but I will not know until I practice in real time. I believe I can do this but I will be more “nervous” than with my NW, which will make me in turn have to make me step up again to them to make sure I’m not lazy to them in comparison, I’ll still treat them like OW to an extent, probably only gonna use the bathroom tub and large tub surrounding the enclosure for the LV with a catch cup. NW get a surrounding catch cup and tub. It’s all adjustment I’m ready for.

all true!



My thoughts are based on: my own experience, readings here, and the insight of of true OW breeders and OW keepers with far more experience than me- members no longer here. Masters of OWs!

can’t say what you will succeed or fail with - don’t know you.

I provide advice for the general population at large.

Ceratogyrus have always been the starter OW genus since before I was involved in OWs

They are simply more calm, not nearly as fast or unpredictable IME relative to the species you ask about.
Their husbandry is less complex generally than those blue devils

As you move further East from the NW generally the species are faster and less predictable.

A general analogy is a Rose Hair vs an Ephebopus.

Both are manageable, but one is far easier to maintain both from husbandry and disposition.

while both NWs they are “worlds apart”

There are worse species to start OW with than my favorite blue hell spawns.

What in particular has led you to warrant them in your experience as the blue devils you refer to them as? Rehousing? General maintenance?

 

[viper69]

I’m definitely research dependent, (maybe obsessively) but I will not know until I practice in real time. I believe I can do this but I will be more “nervous” than with my NW, which will make me in turn have to make me step up again to them to make sure I’m not lazy to them in comparison, I’ll still treat them like OW to an extent, probably only gonna use the bathroom tub and large tub surrounding the enclosure for the LV with a catch cup. NW get a surrounding catch cup and tub. It’s all adjustment I’m ready for.



What in particular has led you to warrant them in your experience as the blue devils you refer to them as? Rehousing? General maintenance?

I call them that for fun, they most definitely are not like most NW and some OWs hah

FYI they can be a very cranky species to rehouse.

 

[Xenocide]

I call them that for fun, they most definitely are not like most NW and some OWs hah

FYI they can be a very cranky species to rehouse.

Definitely going to be quite careful during the rehousings.

Thanks for everyone’s responses.

 

[l4nsky]

I definitely wouldn’t ever go for the Exotics Lair, 1” substrate approach with this species. I want them to be comfortable, not to hate me and their environment.

They don't hate you or their environment. When they're kept on shallow substrate, they start to view the whole enclosure as their burrow, so to them the mere act of opening their enclosure is akin to digging them up for a rehouse and they'll react accordingly.

 

[Xenocide]

They don't hate you or their environment. When they're kept on shallow substrate, they start to view the whole enclosure as their burrow, so to them the mere act of opening their enclosure is akin to digging them up for a rehouse and they'll react accordingly.

That was more of a joke/jab, not particularly a tasteful one on my end. I understood the enclosure becoming their perceived burrow when not given adequate sub but I did wonder if it made them uncomfortable, stressed or unhappy as their internal instinct to dig is essentially artificially limited. They adapt I suppose. Won’t be the route I’m going, they will have plenty of sub. Any insight on how straight cocofiber does for a moist fossorial? That’s currently what I’m using, the eco earth stuff.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I can’t seem to grasp what makes this particular T such a horrendous first OW and fossorial T.

The potent venom combined with the fact that, within few seconds, the spider is able to deliver multiple bites. Aside for this little detail, nothing else

Didn't read the whole thread so here my advice... Go straight for a 0.1*, lots of (moist) substrate inches, the good ventilation and wait for the night.

*Don't buy a sling, 1.0 specimens quite frankly sucks. Good for breeding only.

 

[l4nsky]

Any insight on how straight cocofiber does for a moist fossorial? That’s currently what I’m using, the eco earth stuff.

It's not the best as it doesn't compact well to support burrowing and loose substrate will lose it's moisture faster as there is a greater surface area for evaporation. I use a mixture that includes a healthy amount of Reptisoil for greater compaction and vermiculite/sphagnum moss for moisture retention. I have my recipe in the first thread I linked.

 

[Xenocide]

It's not the best as it doesn't compact well to support burrowing and loose substrate will lose it's moisture faster as there is a greater surface area for evaporation. I use a mixture that includes a healthy amount of Reptisoil for greater compaction and vermiculite/sphagnum moss for moisture retention. I have my recipe in the first thread I linked.

These are some insanely detailed threads you wrote up. You should be proud. Helps a guy like me out a lot.

 

[l4nsky]

These are some insanely detailed threads you wrote up. You should be proud. Helps a guy like me out a lot.

Lol that's kind of the point, plus it saves me from having to repeat myself with detailed answers ad nauseum.

 

[VaporRyder]

I like to get slings and grow with them. Here’s mine in the ‘nursery’ (front) with the C.huahini and the C. sp ‘Kaeng Krachan’.

I would go for it - but I’m not particularly ‘risk averse’!

It’s quick and twitchy, I do see it a fair bit. Perhaps it needs a rehouse as it’s building extensions to its hide - substrate too shallow perhaps. It’s growing really fast - was miniscule when I got it a couple of months ago, and the dimensions were massive overkill at the time lol.

 

[Ceymann]

I agree with @viper69 on most points above, also unlike other baboons like p. murinus and ceratogyrus, that are fine with limited moisture C lividus requires attention to this parameter.

On regards to rehousing though, I think C. lividus can actually be easier to deal with than ceratogyrus and some of the other baboons, as in my experience, C. lividus will stand their ground in one place and threat posture and slap the ground, making them easier to cup, where as the "beginner" OWs like ceratogyrus sp and H. pulchipes are way more inclined to run/ bolt around when trying to cup.
Thats my mileage at least.

Sounds like you already made up your mind- research and best of luck!

 

[Xenocide]

Lol that's kind of the point, plus it saves me from having to repeat myself with detailed answers ad nauseum.

I get that. It’s added to my bookmarks now.

I like to get slings and grow with them. Here’s mine in the ‘nursery’ (front) with the C.huahini and the C. sp ‘Kaeng Krachan’.

I would go for it - but I’m not particularly ‘risk averse’!

It’s quick and twitchy, I do see it a fair bit. Perhaps it needs a rehouse as it’s building extensions to its hide - substrate too shallow perhaps. It’s growing really fast - was miniscule when I got it a couple of months ago, and the dimensions were massive overkill at the time lol.

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That’s a beautiful nursery set up you have there. I like the slings too, mine is listed as 3/4” on Swift’s site. Very cool experience with him so far. I tried to figure out how to add a C. Lividus sling to my order and he emailed me back saying he’d send one on the house. I hadn’t even hit the amount required to receive it as a freebie so I thought that was insanely cool of him. Here’s my current nursery which will have a couple C. versicolors and a P. Auratus sling accompanying the C. Lividus slings once that shipment comes in.

I agree with @viper69 on most points above, also unlike other baboons like p. murinus and ceratogyrus, that are fine with limited moisture C lividus requires attention to this parameter.

On regards to rehousing though, I think C. lividus can actually be easier to deal with than ceratogyrus and some of the other baboons, as in my experience, C. lividus will stand their ground in one place and threat posture and slap the ground, making them easier to cup, where as the "beginner" OWs like ceratogyrus sp and H. pulchipes are way more inclined to run/ bolt around when trying to cup.
Thats my mileage at least.

Sounds like you already made up your mind- research and best of luck!

Them standing their ground sounds like it’ll potentially benefit rehousings then as they are quite quick if they were to bolt from what I’ve read. Definitely will be researching much more still, I enjoy it. Thanks! I’m confident, although not cocky, that I will do fine. It should be a good learning experience.

 

[VaporRyder]

Yeah, I have 5 arboreal / fossorboreal slings in there too - with differnt set ups of course - and T.albo and P.sazmai slings that are still in the vials that they came in, with substrate of course, as they are still too tiny to house!

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I’ve done the thread search, it’s a resounding no. From what I can tell, outside of it being a pet hole with explosive speed potential which can be limited given the right substrate depths and proper respect, outside of rehousing, I can’t seem to grasp what makes this particular T such a horrendous first OW and fossorial T. I get the potential quickness of the species as well, this comes back down to respect. I would go into such a scenario not afraid but cautious. Even as a sling, I would place it’s enclosure into the bathtub plugged within a large plastic tub surrounding the sling enclosure to mitigate escape, with catch cup at hand, during both maintenance and obviously the eventual rehousing. I own 8 terrestrial slings and have only raised one G. Rosea to maturity without issues thus far. I never handle and don’t believe in it. Based off of this mindset, what should deter me? The species strikes a chord and interests me and no, it’s not just the blue, I already care for a GBB sling/juice so it’s not a coloration fixation. Thanks in advance for responses.

There are some legit reasons on this.

First though do you have previous experience with fast moving invertebrates, like giant centipedes for example?

It is true they are fast, they are also an OW with medically significant venom. Also due to their speed they can bite you two times in one lunge, it's no joke.

I personally read post from new owners on AB in the past that bought a C. lividus and couldn't deal with it anymore. They came out here looking for someone to take it off their hands.

If you are comfortable though and have solid solutions for rehouses then go for it.

The most important thing for any keeper to do is be honest with themselves. The worse thing to do is buy an OW or any T that has higher requirements in skill level just to say you have one or showing off. Your safety, anyone living with you and their safety and most importantly the tarantula's well being are at stake here.

Other than that best wishes in whatever you choose.

 

[l4nsky]

Them standing their ground sounds like it’ll potentially benefit rehousings then as they are quite quick if they were to bolt from what I’ve read. Definitely will be researching much more still, I enjoy it. Thanks! I’m confident, although not cocky, that I will do fine. It should be a good learning experience.

It's a double edged sword really. While defensive species can be easier to cup in a threat posture, they're more apt to bite if you mess up when trying to cup them. That first thread also has a link to a catchcup design I use to keep my fingers farther away.

 

[Ceymann]

It's a double edged sword really. While defensive species can be easier to cup in a threat posture, they're more apt to bite if you mess up when trying to cup them. That first thread also has a link to a catchcup design I use to keep my fingers farther away.

This is quite true, forgot to mention that edge of the "sword" so to speak, its going to be much more inclined to bite than a C. darlingi or H. pulchipes.
With me at least, cupping is one of the most difficult parts of rehousing as Im terrified of crushing/ injuring it with the edge of the cup if it starts bolting before the cup is all the way down.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

It's a double edged sword really. While defensive species can be easier to cup in a threat posture, they're more apt to bite if you mess up when trying to cup them. That first thread also has a link to a catchcup design I use to keep my fingers farther away.

I like that post you gave a link to. I have always used deep substrate. Thanks for that very helpful.

I don't know, call me crazy but I picture you as having a job working in a secret lab for a secretive branch of the government. I picture you have a professional lab setup at home for your T room, haha.

Just joking of course. I paid attention to the level of scientific professionalism you use.

 

[Xenocide]

There are some legit reasons on this.

First though do you have previous experience with fast moving invertebrates, like giant centipedes for example?

It is true they are fast, they are also an OW with medically significant venom. Also due to their speed they can bite you two times in one lunge, it's no joke.

I personally read post from new owners on AB in the past that bought a C. lividus and couldn't deal with it anymore. They came out here looking for someone to take it off their hands.

If you are comfortable though and have solid solutions for rehouses then go for it.

The most important thing for any keeper to do is be honest with themselves. The worse thing to do is buy an OW or any T that has higher requirements in skill level just to say you have one or showing off. Your safety, anyone living with you and their safety and most importantly the tarantula's well being are at stake here.

Other than that best wishes in whatever you choose.

It’s definitely going to be an endeavor and I’d be lying if I said I was experienced enough to keep one although I do my research and everything cautiously. I won’t take this lightly and will gain the experience with this as my first OW. It may not be the best choice, I understand that but I’m prepared for the potential repercussions which in my mind, I have to go into it saying to myself I won’t let that happen. Is this the best idea I’ve ever had? No. Am I willing to step up to the plate though? Absolutely, I’ve made that decision. I didn’t get it to show it off, I mean, I’m fine with it being a pet hole. I have had a recent interest in not only obtaining one OW to start and focus on and I wanted to have one of each branch within terrestrial, arboreal and fossorial so it kills two birds with one stone. My rehousing and maintenance will consist of the enclosure within another large tote inside the bathroom tub, vents and door sealed with a towel and tub plugged with the tub watered down first. I have cats, my wife and three kids so it’s gonna be a big deal for me if we’re being honest. I feel a mixture of excitement and foolishness but nothing like anxiety or fear as I respect the concept of the OW T. I believe this is perfectly doable if treated as such.

It's a double edged sword really. While defensive species can be easier to cup in a threat posture, they're more apt to bite if you mess up when trying to cup them. That first thread also has a link to a catchcup design I use to keep my fingers farther away.

100% will be making that catch cup. So simple yet so smart. You should patent one and make a killing of it lol.

 

[VaporRyder]

Honestly, you seem like a responsible guy who’s thought it through and is prepared to ‘learn on the job’. You’ve got the knowledge of the Arachnoboards big dogs at your disposal too. I’m behind you. What I would say is plan ahead for all eventualities and check and double check if you’re not sure about anything. In my experience, a person with a thoughtful approach and a cool head will succeed! As @AphonopelmaTX said, there’s this catch 22 where if people aren’t allowed (or are discouraged from) getting something, they can never gain the hands on experience. Now, if you were some total noob saying “I’m getting a lividum” with zero tarantula experience, that might be a step too far - but you’re not!