C. Lividus as first OW and fossorial

[Xenocide]

I’ve done the thread search, it’s a resounding no. From what I can tell, outside of it being a pet hole with explosive speed potential which can be limited given the right substrate depths and proper respect, outside of rehousing, I can’t seem to grasp what makes this particular T such a horrendous first OW and fossorial T. I get the potential quickness of the species as well, this comes back down to respect. I would go into such a scenario not afraid but cautious. Even as a sling, I would place it’s enclosure into the bathtub plugged within a large plastic tub surrounding the sling enclosure to mitigate escape, with catch cup at hand, during both maintenance and obviously the eventual rehousing. I own 8 terrestrial slings and have only raised one G. Rosea to maturity without issues thus far. I never handle and don’t believe in it. Based off of this mindset, what should deter me? The species strikes a chord and interests me and no, it’s not just the blue, I already care for a GBB sling/juice so it’s not a coloration fixation. Thanks in advance for responses.

 

[Poonjab]

Just set it up properly and you shouldn’t have any issues. Don’t do dumb things and you’ll be fine.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Only you know what you're truly ready for. I think that if you've done adequate research and watched some reputable YouTube videos, you'll probably be fine. In my opinion the thing that gives people the most trouble with these Asian fossorial species is actually the care requirements. Specifically, keeping a moisture dependent tarantula. Do your research, and if it's something you truly want and feel ready for, then I say go for it. My first OW tarantula was a P. murinus and he was a great choice for me.

 

[Xenocide]

Only you know what you're truly ready for. I think that if you've done adequate research and watched some reputable YouTube videos, you'll probably be fine. In my opinion the thing that gives people the most trouble with these Asian fossorial species is actually the care requirements. Specifically, keeping a moisture dependent tarantula. Do your research, and if it's something you truly want and feel ready for, then I say go for it. My first OW tarantula was a P. murinus and he was a great choice for me.

P. Murinus would be my second choice but I’ve already placed the order <edit> and he doesn’t have any available. The C. Lividus is his only OW that speaks to me which I’ve requested to add on second thought, if that’s even an option,l. I haven’t heard back yet but I get that it’s a Saturday so I’ll be patient, I asked the guy a load of questions going back and forth in my own mind but finally decided I am ready to face the music.. or lack there of for the most part with this species overall with the pet hole thing, I’m fine with that. My biggest concern is the moisture dependencies, I have a game plan I just wanna make sure that it is comfortable. I keep all my slings moist to the best of my ability from what I understand but I’m humble enough to admit that yes, I’m a noob. I ordered a P. Auratus which will be moisture dependent until adulthood as well. How moist are we talking for C. Lividus? Is it dire if anything is slightly dry?

 

[RyTheTGuy]

If you have done the research and feel comfortable taking on the challenge, I say go for it. Only you know when you're ready and no one can tell you not to because they don't think you're ready. Also there is nothing wrong with wanting a T because it is blue. Lets be honest the blues ones are some of the best out there.

 

[DomGom TheFather]

It sounds like you've already made your mind up.
You baught the ticket. Enjoy the ride.
Use your noodle and you'll be fine.

 

[YungRasputin]

not to reiterate what others have already said so i would say - you’ll be receiving this specimen as a sling, the T will grow with you - with enough dedication and care you can do it

 

[Xenocide]

If you have done the research and feel comfortable taking on the challenge, I say go for it. Only you know when you're ready and no one can tell you not to because they don't think you're ready. Also there is nothing wrong with wanting a T because it is blue. Lets be honest the blues ones are some of the best out there.

I like some of the colors, C. versicolor and GBB was a must just as much as another G. Poteri and LP were for me, it just depends on the T. A Perinopelma sazimai is available on his site but my gut tells me to take on the C. Lividus as my first OW AND Fossorial and while that may not sound logical, I will approach it like it’s a stick of dynamite in an invigorating and cautious manner. Not cocky. I get what it is but every thread on here I can find lists it as a top 10 worst OW T, often landing the #1 spot. I feel like I’m missing something with it typically not being out and about. I feel like any Pokie would be a worst first choice even though they are my favorite looker, just because I don’t have much aboreal experience, regardless of them being less defensive, I feel like it being right at the top of your enclosure opening and bolting sounds worse.

 

[YungRasputin]

I like some of the colors, C. versicolor and GBB was a must just as much as another G. Poteri and LP were for me, it just depends on the T. A Perinopelma sazimai is available on his site but my gut tells me to take on the C. Lividus as my first OW AND Fossorial and while that may not sound logical, I will approach it like it’s a stick of dynamite in an invigorating and cautious manner. Not cocky. I get what it is but every thread on here I can find lists it as a top 10 worst OW T, often landing the #1 spot. I feel like I’m missing something with it typically not being out and about. I feel like any Pokie would be a worst first choice even though they are my favorite looker, just because I don’t have much aboreal experience, regardless of them being less defensive, I feel like it being right at the top of your enclosure opening and bolting sounds worse.

I can think of all sorts of OW species which would be way more challenging that C. Lividus (eg: African arboreals) so I’m skeptical as listing C. Lividus as the most challenging OW species - fossorials are more liable to bolt to their hole then shoot up the tongs and bite you like an H. Mac (absolutely love the species but still)

 

[spideyspinneret78]

I can think of all sorts of OW species which would be way more challenging that C. Lividus (eg: African arboreals) so I’m skeptical as listing C. Lividus as the most challenging OW species - fossorials are more liable to bolt to their hole then shoot up the tongs and bite you like an H. Mac (absolutely love the species but still)

The only time you'll probably have any real trouble is during rehousings, but if you watch some instructional videos and use common sense it shouldn't be an issue. With a moisture dependent species, make sure you have plenty of ventilation, both on the top and the sides of the enclosure otherwise you'll get mold and stagnant air. There are a few good videos and threads on it.

 

[Xenocide]

I can think of all sorts of OW species which would be way more challenging that C. Lividus (eg: African arboreals) so I’m skeptical as listing C. Lividus as the most challenging OW species - fossorials are more liable to bolt to their hole then shoot up the tongs and bite you like an H. Mac (absolutely love the species but still)

Good god I love the look of H. Mac. Don’t plant those seeds in my head, I only have so much self space for now!

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Good god I love the look of H. Mac. Don’t plant those seeds in my head, I only have so much self space for now!

They're great spiders. My subadult female is surprisingly calm for her species. I think it would really take a lot of harassment to get her to bite. Just like all tarantulas, she just wants to be left alone and would much rather run away. That's just my experience....I do know some people that have much more defensive specimens. A lot of it comes down to the individual animal. But I will say that it's NOT a species you'd want to get bitten by, or to have escape!

 

[l4nsky]

How moist are we talking for C. Lividus? Is it dire if anything is slightly dry?

The smaller they are, the more sensitive they are to dry conditions. I keep a lot of moisture dependent species. Here's how I set mine up (granted I keep arboreals primarily):

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/l4nskys-methodology.343787/post-3161927

Here are some tips for dealing with moisture sensitive species:

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/the-paradoxical-importance-of-humidity.346451/post-3190549

I get what it is but every thread on here I can find lists it as a top 10 worst OW T, often landing the #1 spot. I feel like I’m missing something with it typically not being out and about. I feel like any Pokie would be a worst first choice even though they are my favorite looker, just because I don’t have much aboreal experience, regardless of them being less defensive, I feel like it being right at the top of your enclosure opening and bolting sounds worse.

IMO, species' reputations are usually based on how they react to rehousing. If the tarantulas enclosure is setup with a proper hide for the species, then 95% of the time they retreat. The other 5% is split between staying stock still relying on their camouflage, or bolting. When you rehouse fossorial species, the act of digging them up really switches them over to a defensive mode. IME, whereas a lot of arboreals will tend towards flight over fight, fossorials tend more towards fight over flight and since they're already riled up from being dug up, they're more likely to use their venom in defense. C. lividus is a good example of this. Combined with their speed and venom potency, it's not something to take lightly.

 

[Xenocide]

The only time you'll probably have any real trouble is during rehousings, but if you watch some instructional videos and use common sense it shouldn't be an issue. With a moisture dependent species, make sure you have plenty of ventilation, both on the top and the sides of the enclosure otherwise you'll get mold and stagnant air. There are a few good videos and threads on it.

I sometimes see people putting holes into the substrate levels, am I mistaken? How does it not leak? I have a proper plan as listed in my first post for rehousing but based on Tom Moran vids, I’d like to shy away from flooding, although I understand he mentions some swear by it. The only other option I’ve found is the spoon and scoop method. Both look like the worst part of fossorial’s, the rehousing.

The smaller they are, the more sensitive they are to dry conditions. I keep a lot of moisture dependent species. Here's how I set mine up (granted I keep arboreals primarily):

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/l4nskys-methodology.343787/post-3161927

Here are some tips for dealing with moisture sensitive species:

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/the-paradoxical-importance-of-humidity.346451/post-3190549


IMO, species' reputations are usually based on how they react to rehousing. If the tarantulas enclosure is setup with a proper hide for the species, then 95% of the time they retreat. The other 5% is split between staying stock still relying on their camouflage, or bolting. When you rehouse fossorial species, the act of digging them up really switches them over to a defensive mode. IME, whereas a lot of arboreals will tend towards flight over fight, fossorials tend more towards fight over flight and since they're already riled up from being dug up, they're more likely to use their venom in defense. C. lividus is a good example of this. Combined with their speed and venom potency, it's not something to take lightly.

While every single reply so far has been much needed, I really appreciate this one. That’s a good breakdown on WHY they get so defensive when dug up. Makes sense but you put it into words. Thank you. I definitely wouldn’t ever go for the Exotics Lair, 1” substrate approach with this species. I want them to be comfortable, not to hate me and their environment.

 

[viper69]

There are better OW species because they do not exhibit the traits that these beautiful blue demons have.

 

[Xenocide]

There are better OW species because they do not exhibit the traits that these beautiful blue demons have.

What in particular would you recommend? What have you experienced that warrants the demonized level?

 

[viper69]

What in particular would you recommend?

any Ceratogyrus would be better.

 

[l4nsky]

any Ceratogyrus would be better.

Agreed. Pretty mild mannered in comparison and no where near as sensitive in regards to soil moisture levels.

 

[Xenocide]

any Ceratogyrus would be better.

I’ve seen you on this site while I’ve lurked. I will 100% look into them and respect your thoughts. I still am curious as to specifics as what should deter me from C. Lividus. This is not a challenge so much as a genuine inquisitive question, I want details on your insight.

edit: the darlings?

 

[l4nsky]

So, I'm not saying don't do it (I'd be a hypocrite if I did, I started with OW's), but the problem with C. lividus as a first is you're taking on two challenges, each with high learning curves, at once, that being an OW and a moisture dependent species. Better to isolate those two challenges (for example, start with an Ephebopus sp and then get into OW's or start with a Ceratogyrus sp and then get into moisture dependent species) instead of taking them both on at the same time. If you still want to go for it, then research, research, and more research.