Breeding Dubia Question

[MagicalLobster]

Hi all,

Today my Dubia colony is all set up--26 breeders (17 female and 9 male) and 125 nymphs. The breeder bin is above 90 degrees and the nymphs above 80 or so. I'm feeding them oats, granola, and oranges so far. I might put in some nutritional yeast for protein but I'm not sure yet.

My question is, from your personal experience, how many adults did you start with and how long did it take before you started seeing babies appear?

 

[Drache]

My first colony of 20 had babies while in the care of the US postal service, on their way from the seller to me - and they weren't even all adults. I recommend that you cull out males to two per colony, because they tend to fight. Also - I wouldn't bother keeping the "breeders" separate. I believe they feel safer/less stressed when living in relatively dense colonies. In my experience they breed more readily that way. If you want a lot of offspring, you will have to feed them a lot more protein - a lot. Mine just get good quality cat kibble along with their fruits and veggies, and when I feed them they go for the kibble first. Of my four roach colonies, the dubias seem to want the most kibble. Perhaps it's got something to do with their rate of reproduction. They don't seem to care much for grains, although they will eat almost anything. Stay on top of what kind of fruit you give them - any of it can mold fast when left too long.

 

[MagicalLobster]

Funny that you mention it. In between making this topic and now I moved the adults in with the nymphs. I now have one colony and I feel it's better that way. From what I've read it seems like the breeder/feeder colonies are more of an issue when you've got roaches in the 1000's and are trying to sell but I've only got a couple hundred (if that). Thanks for the advice. I've dumped some nutritional yeast (tons of protein and I hear roaches love it) on top of the dry food. So far, even without the yeast, they go for the dry food like it's going out of style.

 

[MWAInverts]

IMO, it's much better to use Cheerios "Protein" than animal proteins, especially cat/dog food, no matter how high quality it is. It's just not really what they should be eating. I grind up the Oats and Honey flavor and mix it into my special blend to keep everything strictly 100% vegetarian. It's pricier but in the long run you'll have healthier colonies and healthier feeders

 

[MagicalLobster]

I have one more question: From where the heat mat is sitting I'm getting readings of 100+ degrees, sometimes 105. (The heat mat, zoomed 30-40 gallon heater is stuck on the underside of the tub and I'm taking the reading from inside the tub). In the middle of the tub I'm getting around 80 degrees. Should this be fine? In other words, the plastic where the heat mat is is getting pretty toasty but it seems cooler directly above it.

 

[Spepper]

IMO, it's much better to use Cheerios "Protein" than animal proteins, especially cat/dog food, no matter how high quality it is. It's just not really what they should be eating. I grind up the Oats and Honey flavor and mix it into my special blend to keep everything strictly 100% vegetarian. It's pricier but in the long run you'll have healthier colonies and healthier feeders

Sorry MagicalLobster, not trying to hijack your thread, but how does Cheerios replace protein? :? I feel like I'm missing something obvious here. It seems to me like the sweetener in the cereal wouldn't be too good or "natural" for the roaches. Just curious how that works.

 

[Drache]

IMO, it's much better to use Cheerios "Protein" than animal proteins, especially cat/dog food, no matter how high quality it is. It's just not really what they should be eating. I grind up the Oats and Honey flavor and mix it into my special blend to keep everything strictly 100% vegetarian. It's pricier but in the long run you'll have healthier colonies and healthier feeders

Cheerios are not protein though - they're mostly sugars and starch. I notice a difference between different kinds of food, in how fast they'll eat it, as well as their reproductive response. No need to take my word for it though - you can just try it for yourself. Roaches are pretty easy to run these kinds of experiments with, since it only takes a few weeks to see a response. Mine get Wellness, which has no GMOs, no meat by-products, no wheat, no corn, no soy, no artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives - no added five kinds of sugar either. I do also feed my roaches other protein from time to time, such as legumes and egg whites.

 

[MWAInverts]

Sorry for the confusion, there's the protein version from Cheerios. It's literally just a sales pitch by the company but at nearly double the amount of vegetable protein than the standard Cheerios, it's fantastic. In addition, the grains and just enough sweets of the cereal keep my roaches coming back for their food. Been using it in my mix for 5 months (went from 1k roaches to nearly 300k, but don't take my words for it, just look at how many roaches I sell weekly!) and the Turks I sell. Population is nice and healthy

Too much protein in any roach diet is actually detrimental to their overall quality. It's been known for quite some time now that roaches don't need a very high protein diet and can actually lead to them converting it to uric acid and storing it.

In the end, I would much rather feed roaches fed with a vegetarian diet than a high protein meat diet. It's not what they eat in nature.

 

[xkris]

i don't know about the vegetarian thing. roaches are like living fossil, millions of years old. im pretty sure they didn't know what a vegetarian is back then or evolved practicing that kind of lifestyle . its more of a modern thing. your very wrong if you think they live in nature eating pretty flowers. they need meaty protein source! dubias are low on cannibalism, but if you dont give them a good protein source they will chew on each others wings and eat discharged egg cases. other roaches are way more cannibalistic and will also happily eat each other.

 

[Drache]

Offering is the word here. I don't actually "make" my roaches eat anything - I offer variety and adjust the feeding according to what they eat. I believe that they are smarter about their nutritional needs than most humans.

---------- Post added 10-11-2014 at 09:12 AM ----------

I have one more question: From where the heat mat is sitting I'm getting readings of 100+ degrees, sometimes 105. (The heat mat, zoomed 30-40 gallon heater is stuck on the underside of the tub and I'm taking the reading from inside the tub). In the middle of the tub I'm getting around 80 degrees. Should this be fine? In other words, the plastic where the heat mat is is getting pretty toasty but it seems cooler directly above it.

Unless your house is really cold, don't bother adding heat - I never have. Mine are simply on the top shelf - warmest place in the room, but no extra heat. So unless you're keeping them in the garage over winter you should be fine.
I am assuming you are providing them with egg crates or egg boxes (best way to keep them imo). In that case you don't have to worry too much about warm and cool spots.
I'm having a secret bet with myself as to how soon you'll see babies, so please let me know.

 

[MagicalLobster]

The room I can keep them in is pretty cold and its maximum temperature is probably right around 70 or 72 on a good day. I'm getting the bin substantially higher (about 80 or more) so I think I'll leave it on.

 

[MWAInverts]

i don't know about the vegetarian thing. roaches are like living fossil, millions of years old. im pretty sure they didn't know what a vegetarian is back then or evolved practicing that kind of lifestyle . its more of a modern thing. your very wrong if you think they live in nature eating pretty flowers. they need meaty protein source! dubias are low on cannibalism, but if you dont give them a good protein source they will chew on each others wings and eat discharged egg cases. other roaches are way more cannibalistic and will also happily eat each other.

Hmm, I guess we're getting a bit off topic here lol so I apologize. But! You are very wrong to say I think roaches eat pretty flowers lol. I hardly call grain cereals pretty flowers, definitely a big difference. Roaches are opportunistic feeders of everything, but that doesn't mean they should be given huge amounts of protein (40g+ per serving of cat food) that's insane. They don't need that much lol. If you're having nibbling problems I can assure you you're either

1. Not feeding enough
2. Not giving enough moisture
3. Overcrowding
4. They can feel they're not getting enough of specific nutrients (which cat food fixes, though not necessarily in the protein dept)

It's so like humans to cater to yields over quality of life. For example, cows eat grass exclusively but they also gain specific nutrients from accidentally eating insects while grazing. I would hardly call that "they need meaty protein source!" We turn that into "oh! Let's feed them animal protein in captivity and make them very big, very fast, and make lots of meaty babies". Hmm then maybe that's why in our country we have the highest consumption of cattle yet also the highest rate of heart disease, cancers, and other ailments.

I'm not a vegetarian here, I love me some med rare steak, but I wouldn't go eating it everyday for every meal. I think as a responsible feeder breeder I should care about their quality of life so that I can pass it down to my customer's animals. It's the responsible thing to do.

And if you think I'm kidding, just check out my Turks breeding tanks, 6x 10 gallons that get monthly cleanings, the freshest air possible and each house several hundred thousand. Cleanest Turks you'll ever see!

 

[MagicalLobster]

This is getting annoyingly off topic. I'm just wondering, in personal experience, how long it took you to start seeing new babies in your roach colony. Start a new topic on roach vegetarians vs. roach omnivores if you like. I'll be happy to come over and share that I'll be feeding them oatmeal and fruit y'all can debate the implications as much as you like.

 

[MWAInverts]

Again, I do apologize for steering this off topic. There's just so much misinformation about roach breeding lol.

To answer your question, I generally start seeing first hatchlings after 1.5 months from adults. My room is kept 80F constant and humidity comes mainly from their veggies and water gel. This was about in line with my prior experience with Dubia roaches as well before I dropped them for Turks.

 

[MagicalLobster]

Again, I do apologize for steering this off topic. There's just so much misinformation about roach breeding lol.

To answer your question, I generally start seeing first hatchlings after 1.5 months from adults. My room is kept 80F constant and humidity comes mainly from their veggies and water gel. This was about in line with my prior experience with Dubia roaches as well before I dropped them for Turks.

No worries. How many adults did you start with?

 

[MWAInverts]

I started with approximately 1k Turk adults in May and they just kinda exploded

For Dubias they tend to start a little slower for me but once the colony gets going and they get comfortable, they should take off just as well.

 

[xkris]

@ MWAInverts

some very good points you got there. i do agree they are opportunistic more than anything else.
im going to start experiment with some of these grain cereals to see how it works for me.

by the way, your turks look amazing.

 

[Akai]

Turks breed insanely fast. I might need to buy a Pacman frog to purge the access. lol As far as dubia I've found that they do breed faster at warmer temps. I used an old seed starter heat mat under a large colony bin last winter because I noticed this colony was acting sluggish and were really taking their time eating food but when temps climbed into the 90's, food consumption would go into overload which led to population explosions. That colony was in the 500+ range in an 18 gallon tote and in the spring after moving this colony into 30 gallons...maybe 2,000+ range. That's a lowball estimate. I can tell you that whole cantalopes cut in half were consumed in 30 minutes or less at higher temps. Nothing like gourging yourself then go making babies in the roach world I guess. lol

 

[MagicalLobster]

Turks breed insanely fast. I might need to buy a Pacman frog to purge the access. lol As far as dubia I've found that they do breed faster at warmer temps. I used an old seed starter heat mat under a large colony bin last winter because I noticed this colony was acting sluggish and were really taking their time eating food but when temps climbed into the 90's, food consumption would go into overload which led to population explosions. That colony was in the 500+ range in an 18 gallon tote and in the spring after moving this colony into 30 gallons...maybe 2,000+ range. That's a lowball estimate. I can tell you that whole cantalopes cut in half were consumed in 30 minutes or less at higher temps. Nothing like gourging yourself then go making babies in the roach world I guess. lol

Thanks. That's truly quite an amazing explosion. The middle of my tub is around 80 degrees but toward the bottom gets closer to 100+. I'm sure I'll see babies shortly if what you say is true. Haha. I will admit, though, that they haven't been the best eaters yet.