Brachypelma smithi male abdomen too small?

[Keith B]

haha the ways you type your disdain with your Singapore not-so-blue amuses me every time >.< And that's a good argument as well. It seems generally accepted that males are adults when they reach a size similar to a full size female, which works in the case of B. smithi, but some of the fast-growing arboreals will likely not see that size without hooking out. It would make sense to me to make sub-adult anything before maturity with males and females. So your statement could fly cause you're only talking about males in it. The catch is the male has to be fairly large to match the female in DLS, and the female will most definitely be mature before you start to see a difference in abdomen size. So congratulations, you've managed to make a vague statement that has flustered us all into banter and word-intensive explanations.Darn you Viper..darn you to..may all your tarantulas be replaced with geckos while you sleep, and may they all look the same. >.<

(for anyone else, Viper and I talk a lot, so I'm totally busting his b**ls right now. All in good fun )

 

[viper69]

haha the ways you type your disdain with your Singapore not-so-blue amuses me every time >.< And that's a good argument as well. It seems generally accepted that males are adults when they reach a size similar to a full size female, which works in the case of B. smithi, but some of the fast-growing arboreals will likely not see that size without hooking out. It would make sense to me to make sub-adult anything before maturity with males and females. So your statement could fly cause you're only talking about males in it. The catch is the male has to be fairly large to match the female in DLS, and the female will most definitely be mature before you start to see a difference in abdomen size. So congratulations, you've managed to make a vague statement that has flustered us all into banter and word-intensive explanations.Darn you Viper..darn you to..may all your tarantulas be replaced with geckos while you sleep, and may they all look the same. >.<

(for anyone else, Viper and I talk a lot, so I'm totally busting his b**ls right now. All in good fun )

Keith likes to throw me under the bus all the time so he can look better My suffering is his joy and fulfillment in life, what a great friend

Man, this is my 2nd SBlue in a row, that is male. It's very interesting to watch burrow, esp for such a long legged T. It's larger than my male rufilata now, and it's younger too. Next time I go with this species, I'm either buying a female outright, or buying a bunch at once. I usually only buy one species at a time when I'm unfamiliar with owning it. So the SBlue the first time, was my first nimble OW T I've owned. But it is ugly, no doubt, cool spikey setae, but ugly. At least it's an amazing eater. From what Poec told me, it should be ready for another size gain at some point. This last molt was it's first one into the adult colors. SO if I remember correctly what he said, the males jump from 4" to 6" in one molt. That may be only 1 or 2 molts away, still ugly!

Language is everything my man, but to quote a famous person of mine "music is the soul of language"

 

[Keith B]

Keith likes to throw me under the bus all the time so he can look better My suffering is his joy and fulfillment in life, what a great friend

Language is everything my man, but to quote a famous person of mine "music is the soul of language"

hahahahahaha. I'm sure there's others enjoying your suffering as well I happen to be a FABULOUS friend. Just not always the kindest at a bus stop lol. I'm looking forward to getting a L. violaceopes one of these days. There was an adult female at an expo I was at a few months back..MY GOODNESS she was beautiful!

umm. not to bus you again, but wasn't it "music is the language of the soul"?

 

[MarkmD]

humm. not to bus you again, but wasn't it "music is the language of the soul"?

Yip thats the saying ive heard of

---------- Post added 02-15-2014 at 04:08 AM ----------

Instead of taking points back and fourth between you, why don't both of you Keith B and Viper69 explain you're differences between M Females and M Males should be? cause its got ridiculous in explanations over a few posts, Trust me i'll agree with the right person.

Edit, obviously you DONT need to, but would like to hear both of your views if you will do that??.

 

[viper69]

Yip thats the saying ive herd of

---------- Post added 02-15-2014 at 04:08 AM ----------

Instead of taking points back and fourth between you, why don't both of you Keith B and Viper69 explain you're differences between M Females and M Males should be? cause its got ridiculous in explanations over a few posts, Trust me i'll agree with the right person.

Edit, obviously you DONT need to, but would like to hear both of your views if you will do that??.

Hey Mark---

It's not a question of what it should be in my mind (because we can all be wrong on something at times). It's a question of what the differences are between sub-adult and adult, how are they defined ya know?

However, when I hear/read sub-adult, I just assumed the animal wasn't sexually mature. I don't where or how I arrived at that conclusion mind you. Maybe someone told me at some point, or maybe I just made some assumptions, which is totally possible I might add.

It would help me to know what science or the hobby considers to be sub-adult and adult in the world of Ts because at some point I'd like to breed a species or two. Previously I've only kept them as pets, but now I think I'm going to try breeding just a couple, not today mind you haha.

I'm not sure if that was helpful to you? I'm sorry if it wasn't.

---------- Post added 02-14-2014 at 08:34 PM ----------

hahahahahaha. I'm sure there's others enjoying your suffering as well I happen to be a FABULOUS friend. Just not always the kindest at a bus stop lol. I'm looking forward to getting a L. violaceopes one of these days. There was an adult female at an expo I was at a few months back..MY GOODNESS she was beautiful!

umm. not to bus you again, but wasn't it "music is the language of the soul"?

I'm definitely not suffering. Regarding the Hendrix quote, I've only seen it attributed to him based on the way I pounded it out the keys on the keyboard. SO perhaps the many sources I read are wrong. It's completely possible. I have never seen it the way you have written it however. I haven't seen it written that way and attributed to Hendrix, but hey I could be wrong. If I am..let me know and send me the link to the source! I HATE misquoting people.

The way I have written it actually has another meaning related to human culture and neuroscience. It's believed by many leading neuroscientists that music came first before the spoken world. I spoke to a leading neuroscientist about this and what he said made a lot of sense.

And if all my Ts turned into Uroplatus geckos, esp U. sikorae sikorae, like I used to own, I'd be OK w/that any day.

 

[Hobo]

I've always used the term "adult" to mean something that can reproduce as well (sexually mature), so a sub adult male means a male that has yet to undergo his maturing molt.
An adult male will always be a mature one.
I don't think anyone should be using these terms differently, as that simply wouldn't make any sense, by definition of the word "adult".

What people here are disagreeing about is that males (not mature) will appear slender and thinner than females, especially the abdomen.
In my experience (and evidentially the majority of keepers) a male looks nearly identical to a female of comparable size right up until his maturing molt. I've owned my fair share of males from slings, to adults of different species, and I've never found them to differ significantly in abdomen or leg size from females until after their maturing molt, and certainly not to a point that you can base any kind of guess at gender one way or another.
Female slings/juveniles/sub adults/adults can appear to be thin and have long legs just as male slings/juveniles/sub adults can appear fat and stocky.
I currently have a male and female pair of B. smithi as well, and aside from the male's abdomen being a bit smaller at the moment (largely due to the fact I'm feeding him significantly less than the female; he has fattened up nicely in the past) they look nearly identical.

 

[Keith B]

Well now we'd be explaining the obvious if we're talking comparing mature males and mature females. The females are weightier in mass (bigger-bodied) with shorter legs. MMs do, in fact, get longer-legged than females cause they often have a similar DLS even though the male is noticeably smaller in body. It is uncommon, unlikely, and at least unheard of/unproven to me that the mature male will get as fat as the mature female, because they usually display a lesser interest in food and moreso in nomadic mating practices, and they're also smaller bodied at that point. The mature male will also have noticeably skinny chelicera when compared to the mature female. And this is skipping over the major telltale obviously, of the presence of tibial spurs, which occurs on most males, and if we're talking specifically about B. smithi. Since this is a thread about B. smithi, I've tried to keep my points related to B. smithi for the most part.

 

[Hobo]

I don't think anyone in this thread is uncertain about whether or not mature males will appear leggier and thinner than females/immature males.

 

[MarkmD]

Had a whole big post to define between slings to juvies/large juvies (sub-adults) and adults, took nearly 35 mins to write (it DIDN'T post twice), in the end made the distinction between M Males and M Females, wonder if this one will post????.

Edit it did post, why doesn't all my posts "post"? cause I take ages to wright them and nothing, then try doing it again then nothing, then i forget most of the other two then a smaller one gets through??. Sorry being off topic but does happen often.

 

[viper69]

Had a whole big post to define between slings to juvies/large juvies (sub-adults) and adults, took nearly 35 mins to write (it DIDN'T post twice), in the end made the distinction between M Males and M Females, wonder if this one will post????.

Edit it did post, why doesn't all my posts "post"? cause I take ages to wright them and nothing, then try doing it again then nothing, then i forget most of the other two then a smaller one gets through??. Sorry being off topic but does happen often.

Mark, is it posted here? I'd love to read it.

 

[cold blood]

Had a whole big post to define between slings to juvies/large juvies (sub-adults) and adults, took nearly 35 mins to write (it DIDN'T post twice), in the end made the distinction between M Males and M Females, wonder if this one will post????.

Edit it did post, why doesn't all my posts "post"? cause I take ages to wright them and nothing, then try doing it again then nothing, then i forget most of the other two then a smaller one gets through??. Sorry being off topic but does happen often.

I've nearly chucked my computer out the window on several occasions after that kind of thing. Glad to know I am not alone in my frustrations

 

[MarkmD]

Mark, is it posted here? I'd love to read it.

No sorry, as i was saying i tried to post it twice and took over 30 mins to wright and it didn't post, that's when i done that silly one above highlighting that it didn't post, but when i have the time i'll try writing/posting it again cause it was good.

---------- Post added 02-15-2014 at 05:30 AM ----------

I've nearly chucked my computer out the window on several occasions after that kind of thing. Glad to know I am not alone in my frustrations

Lol it's freaking annoying

 

[viper69]

No sorry, as i was saying i tried to post it twice and took over 30 mins to wright and it didn't post, that's when i done that silly one above highlighting that it didn't post, but when i have the time i'll try writing/posting it again cause it was good.

---------- Post added 02-15-2014 at 05:30 AM ----------



Lol it's freaking annoying

That happened to me on a forum. When I'm at my computer, I just copy everything into memory, so if the page crashes or doesn't post and I can just paste it into a new post.


I will definitely look forward to reading it Mark!