Blunted Fangs - Can I feed Raw Egg?

[comradewho]

Hi all,

I recently acquired a 2.5 inch A. geniculata.

What I didn't realize is that the fangs must have been damaged during molt. When trying to feed (it has the typical great feeding response) it couldn't kill the prey and became disinterested. Upon inspection, BOTH of the fangs were blunted knobs incapable of piercing prey.

I've tried providing an insect gut soup, I've tried putting that soup in a sponge and in a dish. The tarantula is not interested.

I've tried pre-killing crickets, waxworms, dubias, and supers - both by cutting large slits in them with an exacto-knife and also just by mashing them. They've also been offered this way while still barely alive and moving. The tarantula grabs them but eventually puts them down without eating them.

At this point I'm just attempting to try anything I can. I was hoping to make another soup, this time in a blender with insects, bound together with raw egg. Aside from the fact that it's unlikely the tarantula will like eggs, my question is:

Is raw egg harmful to a tarantula should it ingest it?

 

[awiec]

Why a sponge? All that does is absorb the bug juice and becomes a haven for bacteria. I wouldn't give it an egg as it will be A)Smelly and B) will become bacteria ridden and can become dangerous to you (via salmonella) or your spider if it attract flies. I would just do a soup in a small bottle cap or continue with super worm guts. It's also very possible that you're intimidating it by shoving food in its face right away, give it a week to adjust and that should perk up its hunger.

 

[comradewho]

AWIEC,

I appreciate the fact that you responded but:

1. Why are you assuming I didn't already wait before trying to feed it? Just because I didn't put a disclaimer on there that I waited doesn't mean you should assume poor husbandry.

A) I waited more than a week.

B) The tarantula, as stated above, is displaying a great feeding response. It is not intimidated by prey, but once it has the prey in its mouth and can't pierce/hold it with fangs, it walks around a bit and after five minutes or so drops the prey uneaten. This occurs with the prey in any state, from mashed, to cut, to alive, to barely alive, to prey-killed.

2. I appreciate your concern for bacteria and flies, however you've made another assumption here that I am going to "set and forget" food I leave in the cage. The spider is active in the middle of the night, I've made efforts to observe this. I have no problems at all providing a new sponge and soup in the evening and removing it the next morning as the tarantula spends daylight hours in its hide. I don't understand why, based on my post, you'd assume the reality of food rotting is an insurmountable obstacle. The fact that food rots is not helpful information, effort has to be taken with most pets from dogs to lizards to snakes to insure that dead prey whether from a can or pre-killed whole doesn't sit around and rot when it goes uneaten, potentially contaminating your animals should they eat the rotten leftovers later. I don't know why you would assume that the skills of removing uneaten food would be beyond a tarantula keeper. But "thanks" for the reminder that food rots and that a sponge will harbor bacteria - I would think its obvious that I would have to remove a completely replace a sponge that is essentially soaked with raw meet juice the next morning.

At this point I care about the T and want to get it to its next molt. It needs at least a little nutrients to do that, and I need to try everything. I assume you responded because you don't know the health risks of egg but wanted to appear like you do know something.

Therefore the question remains: is raw egg harmful, in and of itself, to tarantulas or like most carnivorous vertebrates can they eat raw egg safely?

 

[Toxoderidae]

comrade, normally I would post a more constructive response, but if you're going to ask for help, don't be so defensive. We aren't judging you except for really mean members, and we're just trying to help.

 

[Bugmom]

There's nothing about an egg that is going to entice the tarantula to eat. If anything, it may make the bug soup appear to be UNappetizing.

Can the tarantula drink water? How does the abdomen look - nice and plump or small/shriveled? My concern here is that there is damage to the sucking stomach or other mouthparts.

 

[comradewho]

The person didn't know the answer but thought they could appear knowledgable by sharing two pieces of unsolicited advice - one piece of information that is in every "introduction to tarantula" care guide about when to feed after purchase, and one piece of information about rotting food that children learn before kindergarten.

Now you've responded as well without an answer to the actual question but are giving me unsolicited advice on how to better handle unsolicited advice.

 

[Chris11]

You could try grapes by thenselves or mixed with bug soup. I dont know how eggs and spiders mix.

 

[comradewho]

There's nothing about an egg that is going to entice the tarantula to eat. If anything, it may make the bug soup appear to be UNappetizing.

Can the tarantula drink water? How does the abdomen look - nice and plump or small/shriveled? My concern here is that there is damage to the sucking stomach or other mouthparts.

Thanks for responding to the post, Bugmom.

Yeah it's a dilemna. The tarantula is not especially skinny but also not plump. The abdomen appears to be larger than you would expect post-molt, but I imagine that this is water weight as I've observed it drinking quite a bit in the 2 1/2 weeks it has been in my care. I have to assume at this point, I think, that it has not received nutrients other than water since its molt and I have to get something into it whether or not it will force itself into early molt or not. The abdomen shows no signs of premolt, it has kicked off a small patch and the bald spot looks typical for an A. geniculta that is not in premolt.

Humidity is being kept high and temperatures in the low 80s.

As for damage to the sucking stomach - that would be a real bummer, but it seems possible considering that the tarantula grabs live, barely alive, and dead prey, recognizes it as food, but eventually puts it down uneaten. Do you know if there's anything that can be done if there's damage to the sucking stomach or mouth parts?

 

[comradewho]

You could try grapes by thenselves or mixed with bug soup. I dont know how eggs and spiders mix.

Thanks, Chris11, I haven't tried grapes yet. I've heard this works for some selected species (but I forget which)? Are there a certain type I should get? How should I peel or chop them, or should I blend them into the soup?

 

[Chris11]

I have no idea as to what kind but id try green and red... as well as chopped up and blended... ive never tried grapes myself... i hope they work for your spider!
I also dont know what species' have been documented in eating grapes.

 

[awiec]

The person didn't know the answer but thought they could appear knowledgable by sharing two pieces of unsolicited advice - one piece of information that is in every "introduction to tarantula" care guide about when to feed after purchase, and one piece of information about rotting food that children learn before kindergarten.

Now you've responded as well without an answer to the actual question but are giving me unsolicited advice on how to better handle unsolicited advice.

All it takes is 5-10 minutes at room temperature to get Botulism spores growing in food (particularly raw), among other bacteria and fungal species. I work with a pathologist and it's very easy to get a large colony of bacteria or fungus if you have an ideal medium (egg is a great one).

As for you assuming that I thought you aren't "capable" of cleaning a cage or have poor husbandry, I never said that. I was perplexed by your methods as you claimed to read "an introduction to care guide" but still used a sponge anyway. A tarantula is not going to be enticed by a sponge and can kill the animal if you get the wrong fungus growing in there. If you don't mind pinch grabbing then flip the spider over and use an eye dropper to put bug soup on the mouth, if the spider sucks it down then its stomach is fine. There is no cure for malformed internal organs so all you can do is keep trying and hope it molts quickly.

 

[Bugmom]

Have you observed the water level actually going down, or have you just seen it at the water? It could be trying to drink but unable to.

Pinch-grab and drop feed, as awiec said, is about the only way to truly find out if there's no damage to the sucking stomach. I would try this with water before I would the bug soup though, as water isn't going to harm the T, but if the bug soup isn't ingested, well now you have to clean it off what may be a quite angry tarantula.

If there's damage to the sucking stomach, there is nothing you can do. It's unlikely that it will molt again if it is getting zero food or water, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[14pokies]

There's nothing about an egg that is going to entice the tarantula to eat. If anything, it may make the bug soup appear to be UNappetizing.

Can the tarantula drink water? How does the abdomen look - nice and plump or small/shriveled? My concern here is that there is damage to the sucking stomach or other mouthparts.

I was thinking the same thing.. Sounds like the T was affected internally from the bad molt..

 

[Echo]

HI there.
I suggest trying to feed your T with the mealworm(Tenebrio molitor) which is soon after its molting, thus it's super soft. May be your T could pierce it. Give it a try.

 

[Formerphobe]

I, too, would suspect a potential problem with the sucking stomach. If that's the case, not much you can do except wait it out and hope it survives to and through another molt.

 

[awiec]

I, too, would suspect a potential problem with the sucking stomach. If that's the case, not much you can do except wait it out and hope it survives to and through another molt.

Or put it down before it starves to death, there might be a chance it has enough stored energy for it to molt but it's a waiting game at that point.

edit*
I'm not telling him to stop on the thing, if it can't eat due to malformed organs then it's unlikely it will get the nutrients for molting. One can hope that it's just not hungry or has enough energy stored for a molt, otherwise it will slowly starve to death over several weeks.

 

[EDED]

try smaller dead prey item.

i think getting some crickets, and freezing them to store longer and then thaw one out to offer it to the sling. 2.5'' leg span isnt a big spider so maybe really smallish medium cricket? if it can grab and willing to eat, hope the smaller size will be easier to hold.

keep trying. no need to do grapes or other food items. its not the flavor that is the problem here.

 

[Chris11]

try smaller dead prey item.

i think getting some crickets, and freezing them to store longer and then thaw one out to offer it to the sling. 2.5'' leg span isnt a big spider so maybe really smallish medium cricket? if it can grab and willing to eat, hope the smaller size will be easier to hold.

keep trying. no need to do grapes or other food items. its not the flavor that is the problem here.

I wasnt suggesting grapes as a flavor, but a supplemental source of nutrients if for some reason they were easier to ingest than insects...

 

[EDED]

oh no, i didn't mean it like that exactly. My fault for poor writing.
I was including eggs and other food choices too not just grapes.
Understood on the supplemental nutrient source!

Meaning to say that the problem is blunted shortened fangs therefore if it can grab things and hold it then maybe it can digest normally.

i think T's will drink water. but food items they probably have to 'chew' with digestive fluid? so food slurry/soup may not work?

I just thought it would be simpler to use frozen/thaw cricket and since its more natural form of food for a spider perhaps there will be no doubts if the spider doesn't take it.

 

[ratluvr76]

Have you observed the water level actually going down, or have you just seen it at the water? It could be trying to drink but unable to.

Pinch-grab and drop feed, as awiec said, is about the only way to truly find out if there's no damage to the sucking stomach. I would try this with water before I would the bug soup though, as water isn't going to harm the T, but if the bug soup isn't ingested, well now you have to clean it off what may be a quite angry tarantula.

If there's damage to the sucking stomach, there is nothing you can do. It's unlikely that it will molt again if it is getting zero food or water, but I could be wrong on that.

My MM L. difficilis got his fangs damaged after his penultimate molt. He was never able to eat between that molt and his maturing molt. If your T is of a healthy weight, with it's abdomen plump then I'll bet it will make the next molt just fine. Do as others suggested though, pinch grab and use a pipette or eyedropper to put drops of water on it's mouth parts. It takes a bit while the spider sucks the water in, so it's an exercise in patience. If your T takes the water then try with the bug soup. Best of luck!