Blondi vs Mouse

[Scorpiove]

Are you saying we should starve our Ts untill they become "desperate" enough to eat dead food? LoL

Just felt like saying something.

~LaTeR~

-Ben

Sounds like a good experiment hehe

 

[woijchik89]

So it is wrong to say that feeding them dead prey is going against their instincts.

I am yet to hear a good reason for feeding live adult mice to tarantulas. If there was an obvious tangable benifit, and there was no other option, i might have a different opinion. At the moment i see it mostly done for the gore factor and excitiment of seeing a large spider eat a mouse, which in my opinion is childish and just not necesary.

Cheers,

Good reason? They are plenty in this thread, you're simply not having a very good open mind about others views.

Like I said, how is wanting to see nature in action making anyone childish? I guess if thats true I guess you can also call someone childish when watching the discovery channel.

Some people prefer to imitate a Ts natural enviroment as much as possible.

They do this by changing the lighting, misting, having a consiterably larger aquarium than nessesary.

This can also include feeding a T a live mouse.

Furthurmore, another reason for feeding some Ts mice, is because they have become lazy hunters from living the majority of their lives in pet stores and are not used to actually hunting, but more like eating and killing a stupid rodent trapped in a confined place, and are not used to scaveging or using much skill at all when searching for food.

They are MANY vald reasons for feeding Ts live mice other than to see a little gore.

~LaTeR~

-Ben

 

[LPacker79]

Furthurmore, another reason for feeding some Ts mice, is because they have become lazy hunters from living the majority of their lives in pet stores and are not used to actually hunting, but more like eating and killing a stupid rodent trapped in a confined place, and are not used to scaveging or using much skill at all when searching for food.

Prove it. Since the T's whole life is based on instinct, I sincerely doubt that a T would become a "lazy hunter" from being fed dead prey. On the contrary, my T's will hunt and pounce on dead prey as if it were alive. Doesn't appear lazy to me, but I would like to see your documentation.

As for all the people saying "it's natural, blah blah blah," let me remind those people that the moment they took that T into their home, they became responsible for it's well being and safety. Yes T's eat live rodents in the wild, but T's also fall prey to their supposed meal.

 

[ShaunHolder]

I think it's important to feed your Tarantula a variety of diffrent meals. We won't learn anything new about them if we keep doing the same things the same ways over and over again. I like to feed my T's diffrent things just to see the diffrent ways they approach and attack thier prey.

If thats childish, you can view me as a child. Why woud I care?

 

[ShaunHolder]

I think instead of arguing over dead prey vs Live prey we should acually set up some sort of expierement like Scorpiove said. I'd do it, but it would proally make more sense to do it with the same species that have been living in simuliar conditions for a while.


We could have for example:

Tarantula A, Tarantula B, and Tarantula C (all being of the same species and near the same age)

Tarantula A, B, and C would be kept in the same living codntions, same substrate water dish, everything as identicle as possible. We could then introduce all three Tarantula's to thier enviornments at the same time.

Tarantula A can be offered a consistant live meal
Tarantula B can be offered a consistant pre killed meal
Tarantula C Can be offered a variety of meals

Records could be kept of how the T behaves, and responds to it's prey. It would be very interesting to see how this holds up. Now that I think of it slings from the same sac would be even better. Let me know if anyone's interested in something like this. I would like to do it myself, but at the moment I cant afford three tarantula slings. If no one is intrested I'll just sit on the idea and let you guys know when I try it out.

 

[danread]

That would be like saying that humans would prefer to eat roadkill and what they find in dumpsters because dogs do. Your "scientific method" seems to need a little work. :?

Damn, i just can't leave this thread alone

Felix, you're taking it out of context, a better way of putting it would be; if you were given the choice of being presented a living breathing cow for supper, or a nice jucy steak, which would you choose?

I only give the carabid beetle example as supporting evidence, i'm not basing my whole opinion on it. There are numerous examples, of invertebrates preferentially scavenging.

Good reason? They are plenty in this thread, you're simply not having a very good open mind about others views.

OK, please list the good reasons that justify the potential risk to the tarantula and the suffering to the mouse. Like i said, the only reasons that seem to have come up so far include, "it's natural", "the spider enjoys it", "tarantulas don't do well on one type of prey" and "tarantulas prefer live prey", none of which i have seen any supporting evidence for.

On the other hand, frylock as supplied plenty of evidence that tarantulas will scavenge on dead prey. Look at the pictures he posted. I can do some more if you think his tarantulas are not the norm.

If it was genuinely the case that a particular species of tarantula required mouse for surivial or breeding in captivity, i would consider it justifiable. As this is not the case, i still don't see any good reasons for it.


Shaun,

it sounds like a good experiment, i definitely agree that the scientific approach it the best way to find the truth in this sort of argument. But until its done, this debate will go on and on in more and more circular arguments.

Cheers,

 

[MizM]

Are you saying we should starve our Ts untill they become "desperate" enough to eat dead food? LoL
-Ben

Scientifically speaking, that would just be plain impossible! How would a weak, starving T be able to push a shopping cart from dumpster to dumpster?

 

[woijchik89]

Prove it. Since the T's whole life is based on instinct, I sincerely doubt that a T would become a "lazy hunter" from being fed dead prey.
Yes T's eat live rodents in the wild, but T's also fall prey to their supposed meal.

I was actually saying that they become 'lazy' hunters from being fed live prey, not dead.

You can say the same with snakes, they can become lazy when being fed live mice that have no way of excaping being they are kept in a very confined area.

So Ts can very wel become slower hunters and still have instint, just they may not used to being fed live prey.

Eventually they'll could learn though, just that some would rather keep feeding them live mice.

 

[woijchik89]

I think instead of arguing over dead prey vs Live prey we should acually set up some sort of expierement like Scorpiove said.

Great Idea, however this may not work.

being one of my "T from the petshop" theory. However, it would be cool to find out what they'd prefer.

And we'd probally have to use more than 3 Ts, to be very accurate.

 

[woijchik89]

Damn, i just can't leave this thread alone

Felix, you're taking it out of context, a better way of putting it would be; if you were given the choice of being presented a living breathing cow for supper, or a nice jucy steak, which would you choose?

Okay, this example really isn't valid for varies reasons.

1) I'm pretty sure a T would prefer a spiced, season, roast mouse to a living one, I really don't think you can compare a dead uncooked mouse to steak.
2) You just can't compare humans to Ts with these surcomstances.
3) We weren't exactly made to be much of a natural "killing machine." Plus a T wouldn't have to cook, and season the dead mouse nor a live one.
4) Even some humans enjoy hunting, Ts probly do also, even though they don't have to deal with preparing it.

Your 'cow-steak' anology is a bit farfetched in my opinion.

OK, please list the good reasons that justify the potential risk to the tarantula and the suffering to the mouse. Like i said, the only reasons that seem to have come up so far include, "it's natural", "the spider enjoys it", "tarantulas don't do well on one type of prey" and "tarantulas prefer live prey", none of which i have seen any supporting evidence for.

Some people find it interesting to study Ts in an as natural ecosystem, and under the most realistic surcumstanses as possible. My freinds dad is a great example, he has a 100 or so gallon aquarium. His T has to actually hunt and use all of its skills to find the live mouse, he doesnt only feed his T live mice, but also dead mice, and roaches. He wants to see all of its hunting skills, searching scavaging. He does all of this to imitate its EXACT living conditions. Any person who watches 'national geographic,' the 'discovery channel' or any other nature show can appriciate a good T hunting a live prey, but I supose we're just childish to want to see shows such as this.
However, if T owners don't have a large aquarium, or any of the other needed supplies I wouldn't recommend anyone to attemp this.

On the other hand, frylock as supplied plenty of evidence that tarantulas will scavenge on dead prey. Look at the pictures he posted. I can do some more if you think his tarantulas are not the norm.

All his pictures proved is that Ts can eat dead mice. That's pretty much it. Information I already posess.

 

[ShaunHolder]

Great Idea, however this may not work.

being one of my "T from the petshop" theory. However, it would be cool to find out what they'd prefer.

And we'd probally have to use more than 3 Ts, to be very accurate.

True.

I was hoping someone else would be interested in doing this with the same species so we could compare results. If no one is intrested I will be glad to do it, and I'm always looking for an excuse to buy T's.

 

[Gir]

The idea that T's prefer live food is right on the mark, 90% of the senses used in hunting are for detecting movement. Almost all preditors in the wild will scavenge occasionally, that doesnt mean that theyre gonna give up hunting completely. Theres no doubt in my mind that my T's prefer live food over dead...and what is all this concern about a mouse suffering? How is a mouses suffering any differant then a crickets? Animals suffer everyday in the wild, it is a part of nature..and this suffering is justified in captivity if the animal is used as a food source. The only drawback I see in live feeding is possible damage to the T, which can be overcome in different ways. The real issure here is that alot of ppl have sentimental fealings for little furry mice.

 

[MizM]

...His T has to actually hunt...

I thought Ts were ambush predators? In the wild, they don't go much more than a foot from the mouth of their burrow... is that considered "hunting"?

 

[ShaunHolder]

I thought Ts were ambush predators? In the wild, they don't go much more than a foot from the mouth of their burrow... is that considered "hunting"?

A valid point, but not all T's have the same feeding behaviors either. It would really have to depend on the species.

 

[MizM]

A valid point, but not all T's have the same feeding behaviors either. It would really have to depend on the species.

Ahh, question revision then: Are there any species that actually DO go out and hunt? :? I've never heard of any, I thought they all just ambushed. Arboreals?

 

[woijchik89]

I thought Ts were ambush predators? In the wild, they don't go much more than a foot from the mouth of their burrow... is that considered "hunting"?

Sorry, I use the term 'hunting' a bit too loosely. I was reffering hunting as scavaging, searching, borrowing, making traps. Basically if his T doesnt get fed for a while it starts searching for food, like a dead mouse, or digs another burrow to wait.

He also has a small stream in his aquarium, everynow and then he lets it dry up, so the T has to search for a different water source, like a rock that has collected water from misting.

he's thinking about getting a even bigger tank so he can put in more Ts and more "animals" to occupy living space, like beetles in a peice of wood.

but in my opinion i think he should consentrate on his bills, and living, and his own well being and a little less on his Ts.

~LaTeR~

-Ben

 

[Jeri]

Ahh, question revision then: Are there any species that actually DO go out and hunt? :? I've never heard of any, I thought they all just ambushed. Arboreals?

Most of mine will exibit hunting behavior. If they miss a strike, or if they sense that something is moving in the cage, they will slowly move about with that beautiful high-stepping march until they find it. Not all of them do it, but I've seen all three of my roses, my OBT, and my seemanni do this. If it's not hunting, it sure looks like it.

Jeri

 

[MizM]

Hmmm, I'm confusing myself here, I KNOW what I'm thinking but can't convey it!

Yes, they "hunt", but do they go out and LOOK for things to hunt, or do they wait and ambush? In the wild, does a very hungry female leave her burrow and go out looking for something to hunt? Or does she still stay within that 12" or so and wait....

(Am I making ANY sense at all? Is there a blonde out there who can translate?! )

 

[ShaunHolder]

Hmmm, I'm confusing myself here, I KNOW what I'm thinking but can't convey it!

Yes, they "hunt", but do they go out and LOOK for things to hunt, or do they wait and ambush? In the wild, does a very hungry female leave her burrow and go out looking for something to hunt? Or does she still stay within that 12" or so and wait....

(Am I making ANY sense at all? Is there a blonde out there who can translate?! )

Yes, they most certianly do. We dont really get to see much of this captivity, epsecially since they are in such confined areas. I completley understand why you would think they might not hunt.

Have any of you watched that discovery channel special on tarantulas? The name escapes me, Im sure you know what I'm talking about, it airs regularly on animal planet. They show a number of species out hunting for prey, Particlalry something from the Grammostola Genus and a few arborials I dont know the names off.

You're right tho, thier "style" is more of an ambush method. When they approach prey they wait for it to get close before striking.

... Now I really want to order that episode. I was going to order it before, but I ended up buying another sling with the money.

 

[MizM]

O.K. makes sense. I am associating "hunt" with creatures who go on long treks to find their prey. Like elephants who wander from place to place when the food supply in one place is exhausted. Thinking a Ts home is it's burrow, and they don't venture far from that, I'm thinking they simply wait and ambush. But there is probably some measure of "looking around" done!

Code Monkey would spank me for being so literal. We STILL don't agree that agressive and defensive have completely different meanings... and venomous/poisonous... and.... :8o