Blaptica dubia... serious ID question

[Mister Internet]

Hey all,

I know there are only about 10 people on here qualified to answer this, so if you're not one of them, or if you're only going to post links to pics of other B. dubia on the web for me, then no offense, but please don't.

Anyway, here is my issue... I got into roaches about a month ago when I acquired 10 mixed B. dubia from a well-known dealer. I traded some centipede plings for them (I got raped on the trade, but that was my fault and neither here nor there), and they were labeled as "Orange Head Roaches - B. dubia" I asked the guy if he was positive they were dubia, and he said yes. So, after I get them home, I do a little more research and realize that I'll be waiting 18 months for a sustainable colony with only 10 to start, so I order 100 more from James Tuttle (great guy) the next week. I trust his stock is what he says it is, and I've been letting the colony cook for almost a month now. There are visible baby roaches, and temps are high and food is disappearing rapidly.

However, I noticed today that a couple of the mature male roaches looked a bit different. It seems through my research of pictures online that there is a decent amount of variance in the pronotum patterns of adult male B. dubia... however, I'm trying to get assurance that I'm not just making this up. My worst fear is that the original seed colony of 10 was not B. dubia and I've got a tub full of useless mutt roaches, so check out these pics and tell me what you think.

"Eyeglasses" red design: http://www.polliwog-design.com/roaches.html ("Adult Male dubia")

"Two dot" pronotum markings: http://arthropodia.ifrance.com/arth...s/BLATTES/blaptica.dubia/blaptica-dubia05.jpg

No discernable pronotum markings: http://www.bugweb.dk/images/blaptica_dubia_4.jpg

I have two adult males that appear to have the "two dot" scheme... the translucent margins on the wings and pronotum are much more colorless, and there are only two small dots for a pronotum pattern, as in the first attached photo. The rest of my adult males have a pattern that looks sort of like a pair of red eyeglasses drawn with a dotted line. Is this the pattern that the males mature into? See the second and third attached photos for reference. Again, a simple answer by someone with experience with this species is preferred... thanks!

 

[Pheonixx]

I dont know jack about roaches but i do havea question. what makes these guys so special? they look like the ones i saw in the shower drain while i was in the army in NC. Are they especially good as feeders or just easy to maintain?

 

[Mister Internet]

I specifically asked for serious ID posts. No offense intended, but there are plenty of threads that discuss the merits of various species of roaches. Please resurrect one of those, or reply to the sticky about B. dubia colony int he insect forum. Thanks.

 

[laila]

Hi

I would like to know if there is any different in sizes on the two different color variations of the males? If you could give me the measures in cm, I am positive that I can help you on this one.
(I currently keep 9 species of roaches, and have been keeping cockroaches for the last 7 years.)

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I do keep B. dubia, but I haven't really paid attention to the colour pattern of males, yet!
My guess is that they darken a lot with age. My males are more or less completely black/brown on the pronotum and their wings are very dark too, but I haven't had any new male nymphs mature in the last months.
I guess those with the lighter pattern just matured more recently than the others!

greetings
Bernhard

 

[xelda]

Hey, I got my dubias from James too. I took a pic of a couple of the adults, so maybe you can see what James' pure stock looks like.

B. Dubias are actually known as orange spotted roaches. Eublaberus prosticus are the orange heads. Being of an entirely different genus with different physical qualities, I doubt they would be able to interbreed with the dubias.

 

[Deliverme314]

Hey MI,

I have a pretty thriving colony of B.Dubia and I have noticed this in my males as well. They all breed regularly so unless there is cross breeding going on I would say that they are all Dubia...

 

[ROACHMAN]

what you have my friend is mix orange heads and dubia's sorry to tell you that

 

[ROACHMAN]

forgot to say also orange heads will not interbreed with them they will eat them

 

[Deliverme314]

Than how is my colony thriving so well? Do females look incredibly similar? Are they live bearers? Maybe mine dont look like that after all... I could sworn that there were some different markings on the males but that was just with my eyes. No camera shots to get a close look... hmmm...

 

[Mister Internet]

I would like to know if there is any different in sizes on the two different color variations of the males? If you could give me the measures in cm, I am positive that I can help you on this one.
(I currently keep 9 species of roaches, and have been keeping cockroaches for the last 7 years.)

See Picture #3 for reference. There are two roaches on the right... of those, the "lower" one is the "multiple red dots" pattern, and the "upper" one is the lighter colored "two dot" pattern. They appear to be similar in size... about 6cm from head to tail, although the "multiple dot" roaches appear to be stockier. This is what led me to believe I was dealing with males that were very newly nature, or hadn't grown signigicantly yet.

 

[Mister Internet]

what you have my friend is mix orange heads and dubia's sorry to tell you that

Thanks for chiming in Richie... always nice to have an expert opinion. I do have a couple of questions though... by "orange head" do you mean Eublaberus prosticus? If so, every pic or live specimen I've seen of E. prosticus has a VERY orange head, almost to the point of the entire pronotum being orange, with the patterns being in black dots. My roaches appear to be the complete reverse of that... with the pronotum being completely dark except for a pattern of red/orange dots.

My adult males don't resemble this: http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Roaches/images/Eprosticus2.jpg . The bodies are longer, the wings are MUCH darker, and in the orange head pictured, the pronotum is almost completely orange... also, the black pattern appears to be more complex than the red/orange pattern I'm noticing on mine.

Is there noticeable color variation in E. prosticus or B. dubia that is causing this confusion?

forgot to say also orange heads will not interbreed with them they will eat them

If they do turn out to be different species, how would you recommend separating them out? The female B. dubia has the shortened wing cases, so the male and female dubia should be easy to separate out, but how hard are the E. prosticus to sex?

 

[Mister Internet]

B. Dubias are actually known as orange spotted roaches. Eublaberus prosticus are the orange heads. Being of an entirely different genus with different physical qualities, I doubt they would be able to interbreed with the dubias.

Thanks for the pic... those do resemble the lighter toned ones I was referring to. As for the differing characteristics, that's what's got me puzzled... other than the "multi-spot" roaches being slightly stockier, they all have the exact same body shape and apparent morphology. Whereas the discoids and orange heads seem to have a fairly "round" shape, these males are all more sleek and "bullet" shaped.

 

[laila]

Mister Internet:
What you have is simply two natural color/pattern variations in B. dubia. I have seen the spot variation in several cases, especially when I've dealt with cultures from southern and eastern parts of Europe. Those cultures have been more patterned, than the ones from northern parts of Europe.
They are the same species, but I suspect that they are from different locations --> you can safely keep them together.

RoachMan:
I keep "orange heads", or Eublaberus prosticus which is the scientific name, and they do not look like the pictures he posted. Why are you so sure about that? (Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning your experience or knowledge. Just curious, that's all. )

Zelda:
The B. dubias are called "Orange spotted roaches", because of the female's pattern.

Got to love common names... :wall:

 

[james]

B. dubia

I would have to agree with Laila on this one. All the pictures you posted look like normal male B. dubia. I personally keep my roaches in a way that I never have excapees, and if I do its during cleaning and they can not get into any other containers. Since I'm now keeping pure B. crannifer, B. fusca, and B. parabolicus I want to make sure no cross-breeding occurs. With that being said I still maintain my cross colony of B. craniifer/ B. fusca that I have had for some time now. They still make great feeders and produce very well. Plus they don't cost an arm and leg like the $4 each I paid for the pure B. craniifer. I'll have to take some more pictures of my male dubias. I don't pay much attention to the males, because the females are the ones with all the color. Even the females can look much different from each other. Some are very dark, almost black, while others have a lot more orange in them. I think any species bred enough will produce variants to some degree. The two lots of 50 peppered roaches I got from zoo stock vary widely in look. Some look the same while other are darker. I would like Richie to explain what he sees in which picture to make him think that there is a cross? Maybe I didn't see one of the pictures. :?
Just my 2 cents.
James

They've evolved for 350 million years. Someday they may rule the earth!!!!

 

[Mister Internet]

Hey james, good to hear from you man Don't worry, I never doubted your stock... only the original 10 I got from this dealer. And I would never have doubted except for my paranoia about the coloring... the nymphs looked exactly the same.

I would like Richie to explain what he sees in which picture to make him think that there is a cross? Maybe I didn't see one of the pictures. :?

I don't think he was insinuating a cross... in fact in his second post he said they wouldn't interbreed. He was saying that the multi-spot patterned males looked to be orange heads, and that I had a "mix" of species, not a cross... at least that's how I understood it.

 

[xelda]

I think he was saying that it's a mix with orange heads and orange spotted roaches thrown together. Some of your pics did look like orange heads but the pics show up kind of dark on my screen. They also have a more bulleted shape like you described. I'll take a pic of some of mine later tonight.

For the record though, I have at least 100-200 dubias now, and the matured males seem to look the same to me.

 

[james]

B. dubia

Your well on your way to having thousands. I'm up to about 500 adults, but am raising another 500 or so more to adults plus the thousands of nymphs I have. I think once people realize that these dubia are not fast, scary roaches more people will start usuing them as feeders. I would much rather pick-up my nymph dubias than a cricket or mealworm. Even compaired to other roaches like discoids and craniifer which are much more spastic, or climbers like lobsters, the dubia are very mellow. One thing I know for sure is my animals love them and do very very well on them.
James

350 million years and counting!!!

 

[Mister Internet]

For the record though, I have at least 100-200 dubias now, and the matured males seem to look the same to me.

They all look the same as each other, or they all resemble mine?

 

[Mister Internet]

Found a pic of dubia that resemble a "darker form":

http://www.roachdomain.com/B-dubia3.jpg

These appear, like mine, to be less "clear" and "more orangey"....