Bite from Phormictopus cancerides

[SpoodersAreCute]

Yeah you can premix. In actuality, if you buy high quality salt, it should have all the right levels of essential elements you need for the water you need to replace. HOWEVER, you need to test your water in your tank... cuz once that 1 week passes.. those levels in your tank get depleted... esp. if you have calicum hungry animals like SPS corals, giant clams ,etc, etc.... esp. Clams... they suck the living crap out of the calcium and other elements so let's say you replace 5 gallons of water in a 40 gallon tank... even though that 5 gallons has the perfect levels, the other 35 gallons that make up the total 40 gallons dont.. so that's where you have to dose those elements in after the water change to keep the overall levels up to par.
It's a pain man.... now i am aware of automated dosing.. but im too old school and i dont believe in auto dosing your tank... why???? cuz ive had couple friends that ended up crashing their tank ( a wipe out) because their auto dosing system broke over time and started to dump buffer into the water which killed their fish and coral... about a couple thousand dollars worth of life... That's why i never was keen on getting one of those... I like to be in better control of the sitation.

Now for mixing water a head of time and storing it... you can do that... but I learned it's not the best idea... cuz the elements over time will start depleting in the stored water. Just the name of the game.... If you do store water... its best to store it for like 2 weeks max. If you store it any longer like i used to... then you'll essentially be putting not the greatest sea water into your tank during your water changes... you'll start to notice whenever you do your water tests in your tank.. I suspected this so when i tested the pre-mixed salt water that was a month old.. the levels were down. Im not saying dont store your water cuz itll kill your tank... i just think its not the best thing. Putting in freshly mixed sea water is the most effective.

But i hear ya! it's definitely a rewarding hobby and it's just as addictive as this hobby... but it really really requires TOTAL commitment... I've kept many pets over the years. Dogs, cats, in fact, i used to keep fresh water African Tiger Fish ( better than piranhas ) and helped my dad raise Koi in his japanese pond... and im telling you.... Reef keeping in my opinion is the toughest.... it's back breaking work, stressful at times when something mysterious happens, and you'll feel like your a chemist most of the time.

Not trying to discourage you at all! it's a freaking awesome hobby... but just know it's a lot of work.. or else... your tank will end up looking like a algae swamp or youll always be having deaths like my dumb friend that treated his tank like a fresh water tank.

If you are going to get into it... most would tell u to get a large tank so that it's more forgiving if you slip up in the husbandry... but to me... just me... i think getting a 10 gallon nano would be best cuz it'll be expensive... but not expensive like a 60 - 80 gallon. I mean... what if you end up not liking it after a year or two? you just spent a thousand bucks and now your selling everything off for a fraction of that amount!

Some will argue that getting a nano is tougher cuz less space equals more fluctuation in the chemistry for beginners... but i disagree... AS long as you do your water changes religiously every single week... youll be okay. just do a 5 gallon water change on a 10 gallon and youll be golden.. you wont even have to test your water as long as your using high quality sea salt. i had a nano along with 2 other tanks and i never ever tested water on my nano.. i just always did a 5 gallon change and it was totally fine. in fact that nano thrived!

SORRY MODS FOR THE OFF TOPIC.

That does sound hectic but still not offputting - I was thinking with starting with about 100l (26 gallon) because it seemed a fairly good compromise between having enough space for fish and corals and cost efficiency. I already do (usually) weekly water changes ao that isn't much of a change, just some additional stuff.

I've heard of African tiger fish! Love them but I think they're illegal where I live.

As someone who is very pro-technology, I actually agree with you that using auto-dosing is silly. Machines can go wrong so why use it on such a delicate system? Maybe if one uses at least two machines to measure the levels that send alerts when it's out of a safe range, that could work since one could then pick up if the .dosing machine is broken but otherwise...

Anyway, thanks for answering my questions and sorry to the mods for going off topic.

oh btw, I LOVE YOUR COUNTRY AFRICA!

Stayed in Kenya for almost 3 weeks on a short mission trip. Fell in love with Africa! Of course, that is why I had to have a p. Murinus TCF (Kenya) and the OBT RCF (Tanzania)!

Thanks Africa is a continent, though and South Africa is pretty far from Kenya - still, thanks

P cancerides are quite possibly the worst species of T to hold, at least for NW... Heck, P cancerides make OBTs, Pokies, and Feather legs back to corners from their fierce attitudes. NOT a T to play with or hold, you're just looking for trouble.

That's the thing with Ts... one stage they can be docile, sweet even. After a molt they can literally turn into a nightmare like a switch.

I remember reading that when I researched the species and then I completely ignored it when I found my specimen 'handleable'. I definitely think I deserved that bite - teach me to ignore warnings!

 

[viper69]

Tried to pick her up. She always used to be very chilled, you know? Especially for a P. cancerides. So, I thought she would be fine... my lesson is definitely learnt.

Glad you got bitten, important to learn lessons so corrective action may be taken in the future.

You could apply the same learning to a mamba too, the results may be different, but I could be wrong

Keep up the good work, and I like your detailed report, this is useful for others.

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

Glad you got bitten, important to learn lessons so corrective action may be taken in the future.

You could apply the same learning to a mamba too, the results may be different, but I could be wrong

Keep up the good work, and I like your detailed report, this is useful for others.

I'm also glad to have gotten bitten

just slightly different, you know, nothing to hectic

Thanks

 

[rusted180]

Thanks Africa is a continent, though and South Africa is pretty far from Kenya - still, thanks

Opps lol!!!
Need to go back to school. Ur right bout that.

Too used to living in the states where there's only few countries on our continent .

Yeah south africa is super faraway from where i was staying. But regardless, i love that continent and the wildlife!

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

So, I was bitten a few hours ago because I was a Fool and ignored my tarantula's warnings. I made this log of what I experienced from the bite from a Phormictopus cancerides.

(By the way, my spider is fine - a bit grumpy but fine.)

I'm using the second to last pain scale on this webpage. https://lifewithmcc.com/2019/08/04/my-favorite-pain-scale/

Bite approximately at 11:14. 25/09/2020. I think a female. Appropriately 10cm-15cm diameter. Bite on left index finger. Immediate pain approximately 3 on pain scale. Fading after a minute to 2 or 3 on pain scale. Slight pain (burning) at bite. Slight swelling immediately. Bite located approximately 0,5 to 1cm from tip of left. index finger on the underside of the hand. And 0,5-1cm from tip of left middle finger on side close to index.

11:21, burning fading. Assumed no venom injected (edit: given that the bite site has had a mild burning for a few hours, there is definitely venom.) Still very slight burning. 1 or 2 on pain scale. Noticed possibility of bite on left middle finger. 1 or 2 on pain scale, barely noticeable. Slight discolouration (whitening) of skin where fangs possibly pierced skin.

11:24, slight increase of pain in left middle finger.

11:29, pain decreased to nearly 0, slight 'tingle-burning' with slight swelling in index finger.

11:35, no pain.

11:38, slight tingling and very slight burning in index finger, seems to depend on position of hand.

11:58, no pain.

12:08, slight burning in index, changes from no pain to burning, always mild. Swelling appears to have gone down.

13:06, still very mild, near unnoticeable burning at bite site on index.

13:21, pain less than before, still some weird 'feeling' in index finger.

13:22, burning increase at finger tip. Pain is a 2.

13:28, pain decreased to 1.

14:09, increase in burning to approximately 3, immediate decrease to 1.

14:32, pain increase to 3 when index is pressed against a surface with moderate-light force. Near immediate decrease in pain back to 1.

16:03, almost no pain. Slight 'tingle-burn' when firm pressure is applied to index finger.

16:13, slight stiffness in my left brachioradialis; however, due to the stiffness not being near my hand, I suspect that this is more likely caused from me using my arm (holding up PS4 controller.) Logging it just is case it is caused by the venom.

16:25, slight, constant, stuffy feeling at the front of my head (almost a headache but not sore) with, so far, two instances of a slight increase in pain on the right side of my forehead. However, this is more likely a sinus headache.

17:28, pain appears to have completely faded in index finger. Slight pain in middle finger and palm just above thumb.

17:52, pain in fingers appears to have faded. Slight pain around thumb metacarpal. Slight pain and stiffness around upper arm.

18:08, light headedness and mild headache when standing up (however, this is normal for me and might not have been caused by the venom.) Light headedness faded after 10-20 seconds, headache faded within 2 minutes. Pain in index finger has returned.

18:53, slight redness around bite mark on index finger. Near unnoticeable redness around bite mark on middle finger.

20:13, no pain in fingers, slight headache that comes and goes could be sinuses or dehydration). Slight aching of elbow joint and knees - however, that is not atypical for me and could be caused by something else.

20:15, slight pain in muscles of upper arm.

20:20, mild headache returns when standing, faded to only a slight pain within a minute.

20:54, elbow joint and head still a bit sore (head fluctuates between pain and a stuffy feeling.) Very slight pain in index finger which is still a bit red. No red in middle finger but a scab has formed over the bite.

20:59, headache getting worse but still tolerable, approximately a 4 or 5 on the pain scale.

21:06, headache back to a 1/stuffy feeling. No increase in pain when standing up and walking.

22:30, very slight headache, might be due to dehydration rather than venom.

23:15, no headache, index finger is still red and is a bit sore when pressure is placed on the area of the bite. Seeing as I have now had some water, I suspect that previous headaches were a result of dehydration - the spikes in pain might have been due to venom, however, as I usually experience a steady pain with dehydration headaches.

23:25, index is still noticeably red, however, it is very slight and could easily have been caused by pressure on my index rather than the venom, although the very slightest of burning sensations suggest otherwise. Slight pain in my right thumb joint of the metacarpal and phalange and occasional pain in my right index finger - these are more likely caused by playing with a PS4 controller but logging it just in case.

23:34, mild headache has returned, seems to be focused more in the middle/top of my head than the front.

23:37, I have just noticed that I have a slightly elavated heart rate (which I had previously noticed but did not 'comprehend', so to speak.) However, this may be caused from video games rather than the venom. Logging it just in case.

23:41, heart rate seems to have settled. Thus, I suspect the cause was not venom but, rather, video games.

23:57, headache has faded. Slight stiffness in my jaw muscles and a brief, slight pain in my neck - however, neither occurance is unusual for me and the stiffness and pain might not be caused by venom.

26/09, 00:00, I have just noticed a slight bit of redness around the bite-scab on my middle finger. There is no pain in that area even when moderate pressure is applied. Index finger still burns slightly when moderate pressure is applied. Right index and thumb are no longer sore. No noticeable headache.

00:33, headache located at the back left and left side of my head. Roughly 3 or 4 on pain scale.

Unable to continue editing original message, updating here:

08:04, woke up. Stiffness in both left and right Adductor pollicis, pain and stiffness is more intense in right hand; thus, I assume that this is not caused by the venom (as I would expect the stiffness to be more intense closer to the bite.) No headache. Only the very slightest off redness left around the bites on my fingers - it's slight enough that I could be imagining it. Should I have no new symptoms within 6 hours, I shall assume that thenvenom has stopped affecting me.

08:08, slight headache located at the left side and front of my head - however, this is usual for me when I wake up and could be caused by dehydration, thus, I shall not count this towards the 6 hours unless the headache persists.

08:24, mild burning in index finger when moderate pressure is applied.

08:41, mild burning in index finger when moderate pressure is applied.

08:20, headache still lingering, however, it is so mild it's almost not sore and is better described as 'stuffiness'. Bite on index hurts very mildly to very firm pressure, bite on middle finger does not react at all.

09:46, mild headache has migrated to the front right of my head. I have used Flixonase and saline for my nose in case the pain is caused by sinuses. It should perhaps be noted that I used Flixonase at some point last night but forgot to log it.

11:18, Adductor pollicis no longer sore, still stiff in right hand (presumably not from venom.) Index finger mildly sore when a lot of firm pressure is applied.

12:57, head feels a bit stuffy but isn't sore. I feel tired and my eyes have that 'you need to sleep' feeling. No pain but slight tingling when firmly pressing on index finger. Index finger burns slightly if I firmly press and rub the bite wound a few times.

14:06, mild headache, perhaps a 2 on the pain scale.

15:26, no pain until I thought about it and then I noticed a mild pain in my forehead. Going to use more Flixonase (I also have a post nasal drip but I've had that since before the bite.) No pain in fingers, have not applied pressure. Still a bit pink around the bite marks.

17:30, no headache, just a slight feeling of stuffiness. Bite marks are a bit red, no pain. Fingers no longer burn when pressure is applied.

19:24, neither headache nor pain in fingers. Possibly slight reddening at bite sites. Ache in right inner thigh located above the knee and left arm near elbow (possibly tricep?), ache in left-inner-upper thigh, 2 or 3 on pain scale for all. Pain has mostly faded as I have typed this. Muscle pain, especially in my legs, is not unusual for me. Slight ache (1 or 2) in my left elbow joint and my left ankle. Faded as I have typed. Only pain in right thigh and left arm muscle is noticeable. About a 1 for left thigh.

20:43, all pain faded at some point before 20:30; however, I am not sure of the exact time. Index is slightly burny (perhaps a 1 or 2) but that has now faded as I type.

21:52, no pain. Slight 'problematic sinus' like stuffy feeling in my head - which could be caused by my post nasal drip. Redness appears to have completely faded from my fingers.

21:54, slight pain flares in head - around forehead, eyes and the top of my head. Never more than a 1 or 2 and quickly fades to a 0. Pain seems to mostly be centered along my brows, flares and fades.

22:23, mild flare of pain (1 or 2) along extensor digitorum. Pain on a level of 2 or 3 in my right thumb and about 4 in my left rhomboid - pain in both of these areas at this intensity is fairly usual for me but logging it just in case.

22:52, a bit of pain (1-2) in my left pinky, head and right thumb. These might not be caused by venom. Should I have no new, more intense symptoms that cannot be blamed on aches that are typical for me by tomorrow morning, I will presume that the venom is no longer affecting me.

27/09, 00:21, sudden muscle spasm on the lower left side of my rib cage. About a 5 or 6 in intensity but it lasted less than 3 seconds.

 

[BoyFromLA]

I hope there is no permanent damage was done to you.

Tried to pick her up.

And I really DO hope you take it as a good lesson learned, and would not try to pick any of tarantulas up intentionally, from now on.

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

I hope there is no permanent damage was done to you.



And I really DO hope you take it as a good lesson learned, and would not try to pick any of tarantulas up intentionally, from now on.

I'm fine, thanks.

I'm not going to be handling my aggressive species and old worlds, certainly - my G. rosea, is a different story, although I will certainly be more aware of threat displays.

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

So, I was bitten a few hours ago because I was a Fool and ignored my tarantula's warnings. I made this log of what I experienced from the bite from a Phormictopus cancerides.

(By the way, my spider is fine - a bit grumpy but fine.)

I'm using the second to last pain scale on this webpage. https://lifewithmcc.com/2019/08/04/my-favorite-pain-scale/

Bite approximately at 11:14. 25/09/2020. I think a female. Appropriately 10cm-15cm diameter. Bite on left index finger. Immediate pain approximately 3 on pain scale. Fading after a minute to 2 or 3 on pain scale. Slight pain (burning) at bite. Slight swelling immediately. Bite located approximately 0,5 to 1cm from tip of left. index finger on the underside of the hand. And 0,5-1cm from tip of left middle finger on side close to index.

TL;DR, symptoms lasted, at most, 48 hours. Pain is minimal and would not prevent you from doing any activity, bite was of no consequence other than a small amount of pain and surprise. Easy to cope through even without any form of pain meds and would likely be unnoticeable if one took even the mildest of pain medication. Symptoms that can be attributed to the bite are: mild headache, mild burning at bite site, redness at bite site, mild swelling at bite site. Pain had a tendency to flare and go down.

11:21, burning fading. Assumed no venom injected (edit: given that the bite site has had a mild burning for a few hours, there is definitely venom.) Still very slight burning. 1 or 2 on pain scale. Noticed possibility of bite on left middle finger. 1 or 2 on pain scale, barely noticeable. Slight discolouration (whitening) of skin where fangs possibly pierced skin.

11:24, slight increase of pain in left middle finger.

11:29, pain decreased to nearly 0, slight 'tingle-burning' with slight swelling in index finger.

11:35, no pain.

11:38, slight tingling and very slight burning in index finger, seems to depend on position of hand.

11:58, no pain.

12:08, slight burning in index, changes from no pain to burning, always mild. Swelling appears to have gone down.

13:06, still very mild, near unnoticeable burning at bite site on index.

13:21, pain less than before, still some weird 'feeling' in index finger.

13:22, burning increase at finger tip. Pain is a 2.

13:28, pain decreased to 1.

14:09, increase in burning to approximately 3, immediate decrease to 1.

14:32, pain increase to 3 when index is pressed against a surface with moderate-light force. Near immediate decrease in pain back to 1.

16:03, almost no pain. Slight 'tingle-burn' when firm pressure is applied to index finger.

16:13, slight stiffness in my left brachioradialis; however, due to the stiffness not being near my hand, I suspect that this is more likely caused from me using my arm (holding up PS4 controller.) Logging it just is case it is caused by the venom.

16:25, slight, constant, stuffy feeling at the front of my head (almost a headache but not sore) with, so far, two instances of a slight increase in pain on the right side of my forehead. However, this is more likely a sinus headache.

17:28, pain appears to have completely faded in index finger. Slight pain in middle finger and palm just above thumb.

17:52, pain in fingers appears to have faded. Slight pain around thumb metacarpal. Slight pain and stiffness around upper arm.

18:08, light headedness and mild headache when standing up (however, this is normal for me and might not have been caused by the venom.) Light headedness faded after 10-20 seconds, headache faded within 2 minutes. Pain in index finger has returned.

18:53, slight redness around bite mark on index finger. Near unnoticeable redness around bite mark on middle finger.

20:13, no pain in fingers, slight headache that comes and goes could be sinuses or dehydration). Slight aching of elbow joint and knees - however, that is not atypical for me and could be caused by something else.

20:15, slight pain in muscles of upper arm.

20:20, mild headache returns when standing, faded to only a slight pain within a minute.

20:54, elbow joint and head still a bit sore (head fluctuates between pain and a stuffy feeling.) Very slight pain in index finger which is still a bit red. No red in middle finger but a scab has formed over the bite.

20:59, headache getting worse but still tolerable, approximately a 4 or 5 on the pain scale.

21:06, headache back to a 1/stuffy feeling. No increase in pain when standing up and walking.

22:30, very slight headache, might be due to dehydration rather than venom.

23:15, no headache, index finger is still red and is a bit sore when pressure is placed on the area of the bite. Seeing as I have now had some water, I suspect that previous headaches were a result of dehydration - the spikes in pain might have been due to venom, however, as I usually experience a steady pain with dehydration headaches.

23:25, index is still noticeably red, however, it is very slight and could easily have been caused by pressure on my index rather than the venom, although the very slightest of burning sensations suggest otherwise. Slight pain in my right thumb joint of the metacarpal and phalange and occasional pain in my right index finger - these are more likely caused by playing with a PS4 controller but logging it just in case.

23:34, mild headache has returned, seems to be focused more in the middle/top of my head than the front.

23:37, I have just noticed that I have a slightly elavated heart rate (which I had previously noticed but did not 'comprehend', so to speak.) However, this may be caused from video games rather than the venom. Logging it just in case.

23:41, heart rate seems to have settled. Thus, I suspect the cause was not venom but, rather, video games.

23:57, headache has faded. Slight stiffness in my jaw muscles and a brief, slight pain in my neck - however, neither occurance is unusual for me and the stiffness and pain might not be caused by venom.

26/09, 00:00, I have just noticed a slight bit of redness around the bite-scab on my middle finger. There is no pain in that area even when moderate pressure is applied. Index finger still burns slightly when moderate pressure is applied. Right index and thumb are no longer sore. No noticeable headache.

00:33, headache located at the back left and left side of my head. Roughly 3 or 4 on pain scale.

Unable to continue editing original message, updating here:

08:04, woke up. Stiffness in both left and right Adductor pollicis, pain and stiffness is more intense in right hand; thus, I assume that this is not caused by the venom (as I would expect the stiffness to be more intense closer to the bite.) No headache. Only the very slightest off redness left around the bites on my fingers - it's slight enough that I could be imagining it. Should I have no new symptoms within 6 hours, I shall assume that thenvenom has stopped affecting me.

08:08, slight headache located at the left side and front of my head - however, this is usual for me when I wake up and could be caused by dehydration, thus, I shall not count this towards the 6 hours unless the headache persists.

08:24, mild burning in index finger when moderate pressure is applied.

08:41, mild burning in index finger when moderate pressure is applied.

08:20, headache still lingering, however, it is so mild it's almost not sore and is better described as 'stuffiness'. Bite on index hurts very mildly to very firm pressure, bite on middle finger does not react at all.

09:46, mild headache has migrated to the front right of my head. I have used Flixonase and saline for my nose in case the pain is caused by sinuses. It should perhaps be noted that I used Flixonase at some point last night but forgot to log it.

11:18, Adductor pollicis no longer sore, still stiff in right hand (presumably not from venom.) Index finger mildly sore when a lot of firm pressure is applied.

12:57, head feels a bit stuffy but isn't sore. I feel tired and my eyes have that 'you need to sleep' feeling. No pain but slight tingling when firmly pressing on index finger. Index finger burns slightly if I firmly press and rub the bite wound a few times.

14:06, mild headache, perhaps a 2 on the pain scale.

15:26, no pain until I thought about it and then I noticed a mild pain in my forehead. Going to use more Flixonase (I also have a post nasal drip but I've had that since before the bite.) No pain in fingers, have not applied pressure. Still a bit pink around the bite marks.

17:30, no headache, just a slight feeling of stuffiness. Bite marks are a bit red, no pain. Fingers no longer burn when pressure is applied.

19:24, neither headache nor pain in fingers. Possibly slight reddening at bite sites. Ache in right inner thigh located above the knee and left arm near elbow (possibly tricep?), ache in left-inner-upper thigh, 2 or 3 on pain scale for all. Pain has mostly faded as I have typed this. Muscle pain, especially in my legs, is not unusual for me. Slight ache (1 or 2) in my left elbow joint and my left ankle. Faded as I have typed. Only pain in right thigh and left arm muscle is noticeable. About a 1 for left thigh.

20:43, all pain faded at some point before 20:30; however, I am not sure of the exact time. Index is slightly burny (perhaps a 1 or 2) but that has now faded as I type.

21:52, no pain. Slight 'problematic sinus' like stuffy feeling in my head - which could be caused by my post nasal drip. Redness appears to have completely faded from my fingers.

21:54, slight pain flares in head - around forehead, eyes and the top of my head. Never more than a 1 or 2 and quickly fades to a 0. Pain seems to mostly be centered along my brows, flares and fades.

22:23, mild flare of pain (1 or 2) along extensor digitorum. Pain on a level of 2 or 3 in my right thumb and about 4 in my left rhomboid - pain in both of these areas at this intensity is fairly usual for me but logging it just in case.

22:52, a bit of pain (1-2) in my left pinky, head and right thumb. These might not be caused by venom. Should I have no new, more intense symptoms that cannot be blamed on aches that are typical for me by tomorrow morning, I will presume that the venom is no longer affecting me.

27/09, 00:21, sudden muscle spasm on the lower left side of my rib cage. About a 5 or 6 in intensity but it lasted less than 3 seconds.

09:01, woke up. Roughly 5 on pain scale on right side of abdominal area, faded quickly, does not appear to be caused by appendix. Slight headache. Index and middle finger look like they might be red but only if you squint.

11:08, no pain, my fingers might appear red if you squint, I think my symptoms are over.

 

[Zymotic]

Very detailed report, Spooner. I have a newfound respect for my P. cancerides.

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

Very detailed report, Spooner. I have a newfound respect for my P. cancerides.

Thanks! I wanted to give an accurate and detailed report since I know that there isn't much research/knowledge on spider venom.

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

That you know of for now. Internal injuries are quiet hard to detect until they are painfully obvious.

How long can internal injuries take to kill a t? I checked on my spider yesterday afternoon/evening and she seemed fine - do I still need to worry? Or can I safely assume she took no damage?

 

[Kitara]

How long can internal injuries take to kill a t? I checked on my spider yesterday afternoon/evening and she seemed fine - do I still need to worry? Or can I safely assume she took no damage?

I am not experienced enough to answer this question.

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

I am not experienced enough to answer this question.

Okay, thanks anyway - I'll just check on her tomorrow then

 

[Zymotic]

Okay, thanks anyway - I'll just check on her tomorrow then

Did she end up being ok?

 

[SpoodersAreCute]

Did she end up being ok?

Yup, she's just fine.