Best way to stun/kill feeder rats?

[reverendsterlin]

do it the easy way http://www.frozenrodent.com/ or http://www.rodentpro.com/ all you need is a little freezer space.

Rev

 

[ThomasH]

do it the easy way http://www.frozenrodent.com/ or http://www.rodentpro.com/ all you need is a little freezer space.

Rev

Did you even read what she wrote?

 

[reverendsterlin]

sure did, she never explained the why behind her dislike of frozen/thawed. still the easy way is frozen. I have been a breeder for years and couldn't begin to afford live prey to pre-kill myself in the numbers I used. CO2 chamber has been explained, she says she can't whack em, alternative is pre-frozen from a reputable company I gave her addy's. What's it to you anyway?
Rev

 

[ThomasH]

When I said frozen/thawed, I meant the ones you buy. I have tried 10 different sources, including online companies, and I have never had any luck. My snakes either refuse to eat them or they regurg. I am 100% positive that it is not the temp. I have used a temp probe to check internal temps, they are totally fine. I am doing it exactly like all the experts say to, but they still regurg. I have even spoken to vets about it. All I can say is, it perplexes me as well. But I can honestly say I have dumped about $500 into trying to make the frozen/thawed thing work, and all I ended up with was three skinny snakes, one who later died. Although I have no proof that it was from that, I will not be trying again. So, if the frozen feeders work for you, awesome. Don't mess with what works.

@ReverendSterlin.

 

[ThomasH]

I am currently looking into finding a pet store that has excess "pet" quality rats like the hairless and dumbos, that they will sell as feeders. They are much more tolerant of handling. That and I guess I will practice whacking things on the head.;P

That won't help. They're all just domesticated rats, all pretty much the same things.
Good Luck and Peace Out,
TBH

 

[ballpython2]

Ok, so I am trying to find out an easy and humane way to incapacitate feeders. I will never feed live because of the risk to the snake. My biggest problem is that I can't hold them by the tail and hit their heads on the ground, or any other object. I don't know what my problem is, but I just never hit them hard enough and I ALWAYS get bit. Seriously, I've been bitten like 12 times trying to do that. I can't hit them over the head with anything else, either, for the same reason, I just can't seem to hit them hard enough. Mice, I can do, but the rats you have to hit really hard and it just never works.
So, how do I do it? I have heard that you can grab them by the neck and push down and seperate their vertabrae, but again, sounds like a lot of force and I'm also very nervous around rats now, because I've been bitten so much. I have to feed like 4 large rats a week and it's becoming a huge problem. I've also heard that you can drown them, and it only takes about thirty seconds, but isn't that kind of cruel? Any advice on a humane way that will also leave all my fingers intact would be so helpful.

Also, I don't want to cause any controversy with this. I don't hate rats, I want to be as humane as possible with them, but these feeders are not like cuddly little pets. They are not used to human contact, they kick frantically and will climb their tails and bite anything that they can get ahold of. The last time I got bit it severed a tendon in my finger and you could see the bone. I feel bad for the rats, but hey, I don't want to get hurt. And I won't feed frozen/thawed. It's a really long story, but no, I absolutely won't do it. I know many people don't agree, but I've honestly tried all other options and this is where I am at.
-Ally

One way you can do it is by holding the rat by the neck and quickly with force pull the tail towards you (backwards) if i explained that rigth this should break the rats neck cause it dislocates the spine from the back...But this isnt how i do it Lol... I just put the rat in a small plastic bag or trash bag and hit it on the curb or a brick wall and he's out for the count depending ont the size...because some times i do live prey

 

[kingfarvito]

We don't have to try it ourselves, we just observe what happens to the prey items. Believe me, rodents SCREECH very loudly in pain. The AVMA has the highest standards out there. Don't second guess them.
I would just bop them harder. Or dare I say it, strongly and I stress strongly supervise a live feeding. Sorry I don't know much about CO2's effect on snakes. I wouldn't try it without freezing first though. You heat water in a bowl and then put the rodents in and wait a while, right? Not microwave the rodents?

cant really screech when you have no oxygen but they do run around looking for an escape path and noses/feet turn blue-purple thats what got me curious and thats why I tried breathing CO2....with CO they just sit there calmly and slowly "go to sleep"

 

[hairmetalspider]

CO2 is in humane and is equal to drowning

EDIT: Ok so I read this wrong. My bad dude.

 

[hairmetalspider]

I don't hate rats, I want to be as humane as possible with them, but these feeders are not like cuddly little pets.
-Ally

Just being nitpicky, but there are quite a lot of people who would disagree with you.

Many people don't think tarantulas are pets either...

 

[Mushroom Spore]

My question the people who suggested CO2 is: is there any chance the CO2 will harm the snake?

No. As a gas, it dissipates/is replaced by outside air the second they take the rodents out of the chamber.

Your situation sounds REALLY odd. There's gotta be something else going wrong there, though I'm not sure what it could be. It almost sounds like they weren't fully thawed - internal frozen bits are known to cause regurges - but you said you used an internal temp probe. The only other thing I can think of is that one or more of your suppliers may have given you rodents that were allowed to thaw and refreeze, which pet stores especially are kinda infamous for. That tends to turn meat into bacteria-ridden death.

But online shippers shouldn't have that problem, since it's only out of their freezer for like two days before it goes into your freezer, and they pack with dry ice and insulation. I've almost burned myself on how cold those rodents are when I unpack.

How long did you thaw them? :? I realize you've probably heard all this before, but getting to the root of the problem so that you can use frozen feeders safely still seems like a better idea than getting maimed and stuff.

Also what kind of snakes were they, and where did you get them? You're right, it's definitely possible they had other problems if they were regurging so badly.

You heat water in a bowl and then put the rodents in and wait a while, right? Not microwave the rodents?

Definitely don't microwave. Even if they don't explode ( ) there's apparently a huge risk of internal hotspots that could burn the snake.

 

[Scott C.]

................

 

[sassysmama]

That was actually funny, but no, no I do not microwave them. I use warm/hot/room temp water and have tried every temp from 70 degrees Farenheit to 99 degrees Farenheit. Well, ok not every temp, I went with intervals of 5 until I got to 85, then intervals of 2. I have ordered from all the big name online dealers. Rodent Pro, Rodent Gourmet, you name it. Like I said, I probably spent over $500 on feeders that never worked. Nevermind the 3 temp probes. All I can say is I have no idea why some people have absolutely no problem and they just throw the rat in a bowl of warm water for 10 minutes. Great if it works, it just doesn't for me. When I have another couple hundred bucks I may to try again. I will also take tissue samples of the rats and send them to the lab to test for abnormalities and actually fully open the rat's abdominal cavity and take temps of all organs. Since I'm a vet tech now, I may just do that. But for now, I just need food for my snakes.

@ hairmetalspider:
Please stop being so "nitpicky." I was referring to the fact that these rats do not act like pets, not saying they did not deserve a humane death. And yes, I value keeping all of my fingers over not harming the rat. No, contrary to popular belief, MANY people do not place the welfare of a rat over the welfare of a human being. If YOU have a problem with the way I handle rats, well, say that. Don't make it seem like you are in the majority. Are these people that you keep referring to PETA? What do they think of your use of hair dye on a skunk?:? Sure seems like you make up information to use to your own advantage.
-Ally

 

[Mushroom Spore]

All I can say is I have no idea why some people have absolutely no problem and they just throw the rat in a bowl of warm water for 10 minutes. Great if it works, it just doesn't for me.

I have to confess I'm half-asleep and can't reliably tell exaggeration from fact. *Did* you only go for ten minutes? I usually just set out the mouse/rat for around eight hours, myself. But even with warm water I don't think it'd be fully unfrozen to the core in ten minutes unless it was maybe a pinkie. :?

 

[hairmetalspider]

@ hairmetalspider:
Please stop being so "nitpicky." I was referring to the fact that these rats do not act like pets, not saying they did not deserve a humane death. And yes, I value keeping all of my fingers over not harming the rat. No, contrary to popular belief, MANY people do not place the welfare of a rat over the welfare of a human being. If YOU have a problem with the way I handle rats, well, say that. Don't make it seem like you are in the majority. Are these people that you keep referring to PETA? What do they think of your use of hair dye on a skunk?:? Sure seems like you make up information to use to your own advantage.
-Ally

...What?

You went way off the handle there. What information am I making up? As far as I knew, an opinion or opinionated statement is not 'information'. I was making a comment that not everyone would agree with your opinion and you might find that here on the boards.

As far as my skunks being dyed (And it's kind of un-nerving you went through the trouble to find this.), there's nothing in the 'PETA protocol' (Since you like to use Peta in here.) that would pose a threat. (Particularly if you talk to the PETA II organization.)The ingredients in said dye is far less than anything used in basic dog or cat shampoo. You probably put more acidic compounds into your own hair. The dye was also put on the tip of the follicle, and never touched the skin.

I think you're making a big stretch between you bashing a rats head and me dying my animals fur with basically food coloring. But hey, if that's how you need to get ahead.

Accept the fact others have an opinion. (And this my dear, does not make it the 'majority', either. You deciphered that all on your own.)
Mine being that rats are less of a pet simply because of their demeanor.

 

[vbrooke]

I have 2 snakes, one will eat frozen , thawed food. The other is a little pooper and refuses. We buy live feeder rats/rabbits and use the vertebrae dislocation method. Works like a charm. We also always wear thick gloves to avoid bites, I must agree that rat bites hurt! I would never recommend hitting any feeder animal on the ground (personal experience), sometimes it does nothing other than mess up the animal. It is very hard to be accurate when swinging something by it's tail. I believe someone already stated the method of dislocation. If you want further info you can PM me.

Vicki

 

[sassysmama]

Ok. I was joking about the skunk thing. It was sarcasm. I could care less about what you do to your skunk's fur. Dye it, shave it, put bows in it, all in good fun. And I did not look it up, I remembered the thread from a long time ago. I actually thought it was pretty cute, and very obviously not anything to be worried about. I was just making the point that people accused you of wrong-doing over something as simple as coloring the tail of a skunk.
And I don't know if you noticed, but I was saying that I did NOT want to bash the rat's heads in, and wanted to find a better way. As it is I drive 20 minutes out of my way to a pet store with an employee who seperates the cervical vertabrae.
Yes, you said "a lot of people." No implication of majority, but clearly you are trying to represent YOUR opinion as more important than it is. Notice how in my posts, I said that I, as in me personally, did not want to use frozen/thawed, and that I, personally had bad experiences with it. Notice that I did not say "A LOT of people don't like frozen/thawed" or "MANY people prefer to use fresh killed". (Even though, technically, that is probably true). That brings me to the question, why on earth are you bothering to post on this thread? Do you have snakes? Do you feed live or frozen/thawed? Do you have any direct knowledge in killing rats?
Ahhh yes, and about PETA. The very fact that you own a skunk, keep it as a pet, and use it to amuse you is diametrically opposed to the foundations of PETA. I can refer you to several interesting books about PETA if you would like. I, however, do not agree with PETA. That is their opinion, I have my own. Just pointing out that absolutely everything that has to do with animals can be argued. But if I saw a post supporting PETA, I wouldn't chime in with my two cents, because I wouldn't have anything relevant to add. I'm just not sure why you posted that every way suggested was inhumane, but you had no suggestions on how it could be done better. Seems like that would be stirring the pot.
Anyway, have fun with your animals. I may have to look up that old post, because now I want to see what kind of dye that was. I have an opossum that could really use a pink mohawk.
-Ally

 

[vvx]

But they kick frantically and they squeal as soon as you touch them, and when you hold the tail, they IMMEDIATELY turn or climb up and bite. There is no way I would ever let one walk on my arm. There is something about watching an animal bite you, tear off a chunk of flesh, and then start eating it that is very disconcerting.

haha, you can handle the snakes but nor domesticated rats? Little kids keep them for pets for pete's sake. As long as it doesn't think you're going to bash it for reptile food they're pretty cute & cuddly and easy to handle. Just pick it up normally, not by the tail. Picking a big rat up by the tail is probably equivalent to picking up a person by a finger/toe. It just isn't really built to support the weight that way.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

haha, you can handle the snakes but nor domesticated rats? Little kids keep them for pets for pete's sake. As long as it doesn't think you're going to bash it for reptile food they're pretty cute & cuddly and easy to handle.

Just fyi there is a difference between properly socialized rats raised as pets, and completely unsocialized feeders kept in overcrowded conditions whose only human contact is being manhandled by the occasional petshop owner.

 

[reverendsterlin]

@ReverendSterlin.

my bad
Rev

 

[reverendsterlin]

Cryptosporidium can cause chronic regurgitation as can some parasites. Crypto is a serious disease that is not curable and very infectious. IBD also causes chronic regurgitation. Several other possibilities will as well, in most cases the cause of chronic regurgitation is infectious and quickly spreads through a collection. Far too many keepers and breeders use frozen/thawed to place the blame on on that aspect.
Rev