Bands on Lobster Claws

[darkness975]

Curious, has anyone ever researched if the chela of lobsters are weakened over time due to the bands that are placed over them locking them shut?

 

[Galapoheros]

I've wondered about this same kind of thing but not with your specific example. With mammals, they can use muscles more to get more strength but muscle growth is allowed in mammals. Since the muscle growth with inverts is restricted to the exoskeleton, I've wondered if muscle strength is strictly genetic, not losing or gaining strength with exercise. Alright!, we finally found another pretty dang nerdy question, that was a good one I've been thinking of also.

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

I've wondered about this same kind of thing but not with your specific example. With mammals, they can use muscles more to get more strength but muscle growth is allowed in mammals. Since the muscle growth with inverts is restricted to the exoskeleton, I've wondered if muscle strength is strictly genetic, not losing or gaining strength with exercise. Alright!, we finally found another pretty dang nerdy question, that was a good one I've been thinking of also.

The exoskeleton might restrict the maximum growth of muscles, but they can still grow or weaken.

Apparently flies grow stronger wing muscles when subjected to exercise.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmor.1051500205/abstract

 

[The Snark]

To toss some weirdness into this soup, muscular development in these animals, lobsters, crabs, strongly depends on the environment and time of the season. It's common to hear commercial fishers moan about light (undeveloped muscle) animals getting a poor market price due to a late winter, warmer than usual water, etc.

 

[schmiggle]

The exoskeleton might restrict the maximum growth of muscles, but they can still grow or weaken.

Apparently flies grow stronger wing muscles when subjected to exercise.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmor.1051500205/abstract

I doubt the exoskeleton is particulary restrictive--most of an arthropod leg is essentially empty space, as far as I know, so the muscles would simply grow in rather than out.

 

[darkness975]

So, even if a Lobster has its chela banded for say, 6 months, and rendered unusable, it likely would have no better or worse use of the appendages should the bands be removed?

I found a video on Youtube where some guys that were cooking lobsters took off the bands that had been on for a month or so and then shoved a metal spoon into it to test if the limb was still usable. It snapped the spoon pretty good. But that is hardly a scientific study.

Plus the video randomly jumped from testing the chela to cutting the whole thing in half with no warning of the change in pace.

In all honesty it was an unusual video

It did pique my interest in this topic, however.

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

I doubt the exoskeleton is particulary restrictive--most of an arthropod leg is essentially empty space, as far as I know, so the muscles would simply grow in rather than out.

Arthropod legs aren't empty space. They're packed with muscle. It doesn't matter which direction the muscles grow in, the maximum capacity of the leg is the maximum size of the muscles.

Something interesting I noticed recently in some of my phasmid nymphs... when they first molt, their legs are thin with three raised ridges running their length. As they fatten up in preparation for the next molt the concave area between the ridges fills in until the leg is uniformly thick. (The exoskeleton itself flexes outwards, not just the membrane between segments.) Even if it isn't all muscle filling those legs, they certainly aren't full of empty space.

 

[schmiggle]

Arthropod legs aren't empty space. They're packed with muscle. It doesn't matter which direction the muscles grow in, the maximum capacity of the leg is the maximum size of the muscles.

Something interesting I noticed recently in some of my phasmid nymphs... when they first molt, their legs are thin with three raised ridges running their length. As they fatten up in preparation for the next molt the concave area between the ridges fills in until the leg is uniformly thick. (The exoskeleton itself flexes outwards, not just the membrane between segments.) Even if it isn't all muscle filling those legs, they certainly aren't full of empty space.

I thought they filled the space without muscle with fluid, but you are probably right. I do know that you can strengthen muscle without growing more cells--the existing cells can store more calcium ions.
I wonder if the space in the phasmids is filling up with extra exoskeleton. I'm sure that takes up more space than a single exoskeleton, even though part of the outer exoskeleton is digested in the process.

 

[The Snark]

I wonder if the space in the phasmids is filling up with extra exoskeleton.

Speaking from examining several thousand dungeness crab, the skeleton starts pretty hollow and fills in. When the storms were slamming us, the water pretty warm, we were pulling 3 crab per pound. Calm cold water a few weeks later the same size crab was four to six for 10 pounds.

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

Speaking from examining several thousand dungeness crab, the skeleton starts pretty hollow and fills in. When the storms were slamming us, the water pretty warm, we were pulling 3 crab per pound. Calm cold water a few weeks later the same size crab was four to six for 10 pounds.

Crabs have very rigid calcified exoskeletons though. It probably works a little different for insects that have flexible pure chitin exoskeletons. (That is, the superficial size and body mass are a little more directly correlated as the exoskeleton stretches or shrinks).

 

[Mila]

inverts and verts have both the same basic muscle structures both thin and thick. the thin muscles are very similar but the thick ones are quite a lot different. they seem to have greater control/strength/range over catch than stretch (grab over release). we dont even understand how the stretch mechanism works yet.

long story short theyre likely due to lose some muscle capacity due to the dont use it lose it rule but will maintain the catch mechanism essentially till death. invert muscles especially chelea work by 'spring tension' not contraction like vert muscles.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

This is an interesting thing to think about. Never really pictured it. I imagine hat they would have muscle growth to the limit of their exoskeleton with excercise and weaken when used to little (however given the size of lobster claws, you'd think they'd still be incredibly powerful)

 

[darkness975]

Since this thread was recently added to this newly created aquatic invertebrate forum I might as well weigh in on it with an update.

Since this thread was posted I have learned that they can indeed re-acquire the use of their chela. However, it typically requires a molt or two to regain full use.

See Leon the Lobster on YouTube for video documentation of this.

 

[kingshockey]

kinda like the way a stroke survivor has to relearn how to use the affected parts of the body minus the molting and pot of boiling water.

 

[Introvertebrate]

Aren't they on the verge of being eaten anyway? Once the claws have been banded? Strength might be a moot point at that stage.

 

[kingshockey]

Aren't they on the verge of being eaten anyway? Once the claws have been banded? Strength might be a moot point at that stage.

Never know i know couple of vegans that would buy those lobster or other food to "rescue" them from our bellies if they had the chance and money. just to set em free don't ask why cause I can't make sense of their thinking either

 

[Introvertebrate]

Never know i know couple of vegans that would buy those lobster or other food to "rescue" them from our bellies if they had the chance and money. just to set em free don't ask why cause I can't make sense of their thinking either

Got it. This reminds me of a way mantis keepers prevent cannibalism during mating attempts. Temporarily band the female's raptors, so she can't strike at the male.

 

[kingshockey]

Got it. This reminds me of a way mantis keepers prevent cannibalism during mating attempts. Temporarily band the female's raptors, so she can't strike at the male.

gotta try that out next time i piss the wife off badly

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Since this thread was recently added to this newly created aquatic invertebrate forum I might as well weigh in on it with an update.

Since this thread was posted I have learned that they can indeed re-acquire the use of their chela. However, it typically requires a molt or two to regain full use.

See Leon the Lobster on YouTube for video documentation of this.

I remember following the story of Leon the Lobster! Those are great videos!

 

[Introvertebrate]

gotta try that out next time i piss the wife off badly

Might keep her from biting your head off.