ball python / leopard gecko stuff

[Pulk]

is eco-earth like bed-a-beast?

 

[Ted]

is eco-earth like bed-a-beast?

i bed a beast once.
she was irish..

wait..bad joke.

 

[zimbu]

And what are they on in the wild? I'm sorry to here about your gecko, but these are creatures that have evolved in a desert environment, living on sand. Personally, I've never had any problems keeping adult leos as natual as possible. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I feed them with hemostats and thus they don't get mouthfuls sand. ~ Rex

Well in 11 years of keeping 3 leopard gecko, I've only ever had a problem once, and it wasn't even due to the sand. HOWEVER, it CAN and DOES happen, and after having to treat an impacted gecko, it just doesn't seem worth the risk to me, however minute it may be.

Ironically, the one that did get impacted was also hand fed.

Really, the odds of an impaction are slim to none, but it happens. And when it does happen, it sucks.

 

[zimbu]

Go here for everything you need to know about ball pythons:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules.php?name=Jig

For substrate I use coco-fiber with some moss in one of the hides to have a nice humid spot. The only caution with the cocofiber is that it can dry out pretty quick and then keep the tank too dry, you need to have a hygrometer to measure humidity to ensure you can regulate it properly with the right amount of misting.

I make humid hides out of tupperware/rubbermaid/empty margerine containers for all my reptiles. Just cut a hole in the top/side, put paper towels or sphagnum moss inside, and keep moist. Since it's in a plastic container, it takes forever to dry out. Just check for mold occasionally.

One thing about the moss, like I said before I have a gecko that got impacted by eating it while she was shedding ~_~. So I use towels for geckos and moss for snakes and my skink, who always sheds in his water dish and doesn't eat his skin.

 

[ZooRex]

HOWEVER, it CAN and DOES happen

I wasn't denying the fact that that impaction isn't real, for me it seams like alot of people are worried about it and then deny their pet to live as it would in nature.

No, they don't live on sand.

Whatever Wikipedia says I don't know. I was endulging from Robbie Hampers book THE LEOPARD GECKO IN CAPTIVITY which says "They are found in hot, rocky, and semi arid desert areas with a terrain of sandy gravel, hard clay soil, and spase vegetation of grasses and shrubs." (If you want to argue that before I said "sand" and not "sandy gravel" you will be doing it by yourself, I won't join in.)

I have never understood how opinonated people can get when they care for animals. Why are so many so absolute? I can't tell you how many times I've heard such phrases as "Newspaper is the only substrate" or "Never keep more than one species together!" Just because your way works for you, doesn't mean its the only way. ~ Rex

 

[Schlyne]

is eco-earth like bed-a-beast?

yes, both are coconut coir.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

Just because your way results in no possible harm or health problems or death to the animals whose lives are completely and utterly in your hands, doesn't mean its the only way. ~ Rex

There, fixed that typo for you. ;P

 

[ZooRex]

Hey Mushroom Spore, I understand that we disagree, but are you really that upset? I really didn't appreciate you saying the things you did, or judgeing me because I use playsand. I take great care with my animals, and would hate for anything too happen to them. At the same time, the entire reason I keep animals is not to see how many I can cram into a sweaterbox (not saying you do). I strive very hard to recreate there natural habitat, as best as my budget will alow.

Also as far as impaction goes THE LEOPARD GECKO MANUAL states that "There have been some reports of Leopard Geckos, mostly babies, ingesting sand and dying of sand impaction when kept on a sand substrate. For this reason, many breeders recommend that babies be initially kept on paper and later when they have reached a length of six inches be swithed over to sand. At the root of the impaction problem is the availability of calcium." It then goes on to explain that Leos ingest sand to gain calcium, but if calcium is present, this problem can be avoided. Now all of my leos are around the 8" mark, and have access to calcium; if they still got impacted, at least with me they can go see a vet.

All I was trying to do here is answer somebodys question, and tell them what I keep my Leos on. It has worked for me for three years. If something else as worked for you great, but please don't get down on me about mistreating my animals. At least not till you've found out more. Peace ~ Rex

 

[rollinkansas]

The sand/paper towel debate is just like debating politics...both sides have their valid points, but in the end will still believe what they want to believe.

Some things work for some people, some work for others. Saying one way is the only way is completely wrong.

Its like when you hear in the newspaper about skydiving accidents. We see that and automatically assume how dangerous it is, yet we dont hear about the hundreds of successful skydives every single day.


Just like youll see a post saying "OMG my leopard gecko died of impaction!" So everyone assumes sand is the devil. Yet just like with skydiving, no one is making posts saying "Hey, guess what guys, my leopard gecko survived today on paper towels!".

You guys need to realize what exactly you are arguing. Can a young leopard gecko get impacted from sand? Yes. Will an adult get impacted from sand? Probably not, unless its due to bad husbandry. The risk is definitely small enough that its safe to say that sand is safe for adults.

But in the end you guys will keep on keeping them the way you want. Both newspaper/paper towels, and sand work fine, you guys just need to find out what works for you.

 

[Pulk]

What about using Repti-Sand (no calcium additives, very fine) and checking gecko poo regularly to see if she's ingesting any? Would that work?

 

[rollinkansas]

What about using Repti-Sand (no calcium additives, very fine) and checking gecko poo regularly to see if she's ingesting any? Would that work?

Yes, it would be fine.

 

[Pulk]

well, you're one of the ones who said sand was ok in the first place.

 

[Ted]

if someone sees poo with sand in it..could it not be that they just happened to lay poop in some sand?
am thinking that i were to poop in sand..someone, upon finding it, would likely assume i had been consuming sand.

LOL
don't listen to me
just tossing in some belated humor.

 

[Pulk]

i'd look on top, or cut it open.

just got back from stores, and i now have potting soil (hypnum moss, forest products, compost, sand, perlite, and a wetting agent), and sani-chips. the reptile store people said to use soil for the python and chips for the gecko, but i'm thinking it should be the other way around? are both substrates bad?

 

[rollinkansas]

i'd look on top, or cut it open.

just got back from stores, and i now have potting soil (hypnum moss, forest products, compost, sand, perlite, and a wetting agent), and sani-chips. the reptile store people said to use soil for the python and chips for the gecko, but i'm thinking it should be the other way around? are both substrates bad?

Id use either sand or newspaper/paper towels for the gecko. Is the potting soil organic?

 

[Pulk]

it doesn't say organic on it, but those are -all- the ingredients it has.

so sand would be better than soil or sani chips or bed-a-beast? why?

 

[Mushroom Spore]

potting soil (hypnum moss, forest products, compost, sand, perlite, and a wetting agent), and sani-chips. the reptile store people said to use soil for the python and chips for the gecko, but i'm thinking it should be the other way around? are both substrates bad?

First, what the heck are sani-chips? :?

Second, I'd return the potting soil. Does it even say what "forest products" are? I'm not sure perlite is safe, or what a "wetting agent" is, and I'm fairly certain you don't want compost.

My suggestion is still aspen shavings for the python, and tiles or paper towels or newspaper or whatever for the gecko.

What about using Repti-Sand (no calcium additives, very fine) and checking gecko poo regularly to see if she's ingesting any? Would that work?

I'm gonna say no. If they're getting impacted, you'll never see sand in the feces, because the sand will be building up in their digestive tract instead.

 

[Pulk]

First, what the heck are sani-chips? :?

I believe they are made of aspen.

Second, I'd return the potting soil. Does it even say what "forest products" are? I'm not sure perlite is safe, or what a "wetting agent" is, and I'm fairly certain you don't want compost.

this stuff says Hyponex in small print on it; looking at this thread I'm pretty sure it's ok.

I'm gonna say no. If they're getting impacted, you'll never see sand in the feces, because the sand will be building up in their digestive tract instead.

I got the impression this sand is fine enough that it's a very slow buildup over time, with only a few particles getting lodged in there, and the majority passing through... are you sure that's not the case?

 

[rollinkansas]

I believe they are made of aspen.


this stuff says Hyponex in small print on it; looking at this thread I'm pretty sure it's ok.


I got the impression this sand is fine enough that it's a very slow buildup over time, with only a few particles getting lodged in there, and the majority passing through... are you sure that's not the case?

These animals come from the wild. Their bodies are adapted for the small amount of sand that will be ingested with food. Sand is fine. The reason a lot of big breeders dont use it is because paper towels are easier to clean up. If you are looking for a naturalistic tank, then sand is fine.

But in the end just go with what you want, both are fine.

 

[Pulk]

@rollinkansas - what do you think of aspen/sani chips? they're a few mm square.