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Bad molt. What can I do?

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Emmaalyse, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

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    That does not look normal... :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. I know, im so worried.

    Got her to drink some water tonight. I hate seeing her like this. I wish there was more I could do for her. No signs of poop yet. The substrate seems to be sticking to her. Im so heartbroken over this
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2019
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  3. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

    This does look like a wet moult, were her legs this distorted after the moult or was it maybe caused by the transfers and handling?
     
  4. khil

    khil Arachnobaron

    Hey what if you were to knock it out with something like co2, or whatever else (I've never done this before, only heard about it), then just use some forceps to manually clean the area out? If he's going to die otherwise, maybe it's worth it?

    Good luck.
     
  5. No they looked weird before i even opened her enclosure. I knew right away something was not right. She is looking a bit better and moving around a lot more in her hide. Im still worried about impaction. I want to get a really tiny pair of tweezers and try and get whatever is there off. Ive seen it done and it can save the spider. The qtips with warm water have done nothing but stress her out to the point where she gives up and just sits there.

    I dont want to try and knock her out. I feel like only scientist should take that on. I might try and pick off whatever is there with small tweezers.
    So i have officially decided im going to put her under anesthetic and try my best to get this stuff off her butt. I have been researching all day for this. Im nervous but its better than trying nothing at all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2019
  6. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

    I would wait. If she is doing better by moving around, give her some more time. It's three days post moult, at this size, they need some time to gain their bearings again. I see no urgency in trying to knock her out, that would be my LAST resort, if any. Just leave her alone for a day, provide water and warmth but stop fussing with her. The abdomen isn't swollen like you see with other impacted spiders.
     
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  7. It is my last resort but i am worried that if i wait too long (most people dont notice till its too late) anything water that goes into her wont be able to through and hurt her. I might not but im gonna see. I want this taken care off sooner rather than later.

    Okay good news! Anesthetic was able to slow her down enough where we could put some warm water and glycerin on the area! As she came to i had her find her water dish and she drank for a about 5 mins. Ever since then she has been doing better! She is actually climbing, her legs dont look as distorted. Now i know regardless of this if she still can not poop there is nothing i can do but at least for now she is okay and doing a lot better.

    Im still going to keep her cork bark down until i know she wont tumble down it. I know pink toes are arboreal. This is a temporary set up. She normally has tons of plants and things to climb on. I dont want anyone thinking she isnt getting proper care ❤️
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2019
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  8. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

    Wow, that is absolutely amazing! Could you post a logbook with what you did, as complete as you can, with times, materials used and such? This is the very first time I'm reading about this being succesful. Your log on it could make a sticky for others finding their spider like yours! I'm tagging the mods and some others who I think will be interested.

    @cold blood @Ungoliant @EulersK @boina @KezyGLA @Nightstalker47
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Yeah i can definitely do that! This is my first time really using this website so how would i go about that?
     
  10. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

    Make a post containing all the info, maybe even with a timeline and everything about material, behaviour of the spider, as complete as you can. The moderators can make a sticky of that post. Assuming they're as enthusiastic as I am :D
    I know @Ungoliant is putting new stickies together so maybe she can add this to hers.
     
  11. Okay i will do that!! ❤️
     
  12. I made a post 4 days ago after I noticed that my pink toe had a bad molt. Regardless of all the conditions being normal this still happened. This was my pink toe Boots who was also my first tarantula ever and started my absolute love for this hobby. I first noticed her abdomen looked very strange and looked "wet". Her legs also looked deformed a little bit. I just immediately that something was not right at all. I immediately took pictures and went on here and posted and asked people on my Instagram. As people were helping me we figured out she had a wet molt and not only that but we also think her butt hole is blocked which will make it impossible for her to poop therefore she will become impacted. I did a ton of research on any website I could find. Ultimately Toms big Spiders was the most helpful. After what seemed like hours of helping Boots she is now today very perky and is webbing and climbing the walls of her enclosure. there is not a lot of success stories about this subject and we still don't know for sure if hers will be but its look like it might be. It was suggested I make a timeline post about what I did to bring her back to health. I was constantly a crying mess over seeing my baby girl like this. I am normally a very hands off person with my tarantulas especially after they molt. I will keep posting updates on Boots and see what happens after her first meal and see if we see any poop. To be realistic I don't think she is going to survive this but because I caught it so early there is a slight chance she might. I hope this can be a success story but even so this post can hopefully help people who might have this happen to there tarantula. I will be attaching photos in order of what has been going on.

    Day 1: I noticed that Boots looked off. After finding out what was wrong it was suggested I take q-tips and warm water and wipe her butt. Me and my boyfriend did that for about 15 minutes with really no luck though I think I saw a little bit of poop on my hand from her. I put her in my bedroom and made it 75-80 degrees. I took out all her decorations except her cork bark and two water dishes (her regular one and a shallower dish). I took her cork bark and placed it sideways like a terrestrial set up. This way she wont fall off trying to grip.

    Day 2: I left her alone most of the day, I kept checking on her. That night i made her go over to her water dish and she drank for about 2 minutes before I moved her to make sure she wasn't stuck there. she definitely had trouble getting over there and tried to climb and fell on her back and then had substrate stuck on her.

    Day 3: She started moving around in her cork bark a lot more by adjusting her position rather than sitting in the same spot all day. All dad I did research on how to put a tarantula under anesthetic and decided that was what I was going to try to do. Though it did not work as well as I would have hope it did slow her down enough to work with her. We were able to wipe the area more, dropped and used a syringe to put warm water on the area and finished of with putting some glycerin there to help lubricate and loosen up the area. After that I led her to the water dish on the table we had her on and I let he drink as long as she wanted (about 5 minutes). Immediately after she was done drinking she was so much stronger and ran almost up my arm. This was a huge change from the first day where she would have to drag her body on my hand/arm. She was barely able to hold her self up to now running. I put her back in her enclosure.

    Day 4: I found her this morning on the wall climbing and in general exploring her enclosure and webbing. This is amazing improvement and it has been so emotional for me to have this happen. She is showing signs that she can't poop, Just like in article below she is scratching her butt with her back leg. She is webbing and climbing still. I will continue to put glycerin on her and warm water through the week and see if that helps.

    My Nightly Treatment Routine:
    1. I make sure i have everything set up to save time. I gently get Boots out of her enclosure and let her go onto the table, cupping my hand in front of her front so she doesn't try and run away.
    2. I first take the WARM water and take the dropper or syringe and poor the water over the area. Next I will take a q tip that was dipped into the warm water and wipe the area as best i can while she tries to get away.
    3. After that i take the glycerin and add very little bit from a q tip to the area.
    4. Next I make sure she drinks some water so I try to get her to walk over to her water dish and wait for her to finally settle and drink some water. I want to keep her hydrated.
    Notes: Make sure everything is setup before you get the tarantula out. Depending on you tarantula this could take 5 minutes or 15 minutes. Boots is quiet skittish so I try to be very gentle and slow with her. I give her mini breaks in between each step if she seems to be very upset.


    Anesthetic Link:
    http://www.theraphosidae.be/en/vogelspinnen/first-aid/
    Toms Big Spiders Article: https://tomsbigspiders.com/2017/05/27/tarantula-impaction-revisited/
    Helpful Links: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tarantula-information-for-beginners-and-more.318718/
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  13. Andrea82

    Andrea82 Arachnoking Active Member

    Thank you! What did you use for anesthetic, and how did you go about using that would be valuable to add as well, I think.
     
  14. i will add links to that info cause i dont want to make this post way too long. check it and see if it reads and everything okay. I did read it but I could have missed something :)
     
  15. khil

    khil Arachnobaron

    I know you posted a link but can you tell us exactly what you used for anaesthetic including portions, and how you went about it? This will be very helpful to keepers in the future.
     
  16. I will add that in right now :)
    Let me know if that is okay, if i need to be more specific let me know!

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2019
  17. Just a note that the protocol linked is not anesthesia, it is suffocating the creature with CO2, a very different thing. The tarantula "passes out" due to the lack of oxygen, isn't really anesthetized and there is zero pain control.

    Inhalant general anesthetics are effective. Grammostola rosea have been anesthetized with 5% isoflurane or sevoflurane at a rate of 1 L/min. Induction in the chamber takes generally less than 20 minutes, and recovery in oxygen in the chamber less than 30 minutes, depending on size of the chamber. The times for induction and recovery are similar with Theraphosa blondi using isoflurane. An injectable anesthetic like alphaxalone would probably be safe and effective but all the injectables have some negative cardiovascular effects so the inhalants may be safer and are certainly easier to administer (see part of abstract below about undetectable heartbeats after administration of injectable anesthetic combinations). Anesthetic monitoring is difficult in tarantulas, the righting reflex is probably the most helpful. The heartbeat can be monitored with Doppler ultrasound, probably also in scorpions.

    For inhalant anesthetics the equipment needn't be complex. Put 2 cc isoflurane on a cotton ball in a 500 cc closed container with the tarantula and wait. Induction will be faster with an anesthetic machine, and recovery will be somewhat faster filling the chamber with pure oxygen after the procedure, room air will take longer to recover but will work.

    Edit: Journal abstract on injectable anesthesia:

    The use of injectable alphaxalone as a single agent and in combination with ketamine, xylazine, and morphine in the Chilean rose tarantula, Grammostola rosea.
    J Zoo Wildl Med. December 2014;45(4):792-801.
    Jenessa Gjeltema, Lysa P Posner, Michael Stoskopf
    Article Abstract
    This study evaluated the use of the injectable anesthetic, alphaxalone, as a single agent and in combination with ketamine, xylazine, and morphine in the Chilean rose tarantula, Grammostola rosea. Between two and four animals were evaluated for each anesthetic protocol, and two unanesthetized animals were evaluated for comparative purposes. Anesthetic duration, depth, and quality were assessed by scoring responses to tactile and trichobothria stimulation, muscle tone, purposeful movement, righting response, and heart rate throughout each anesthetic event. Alphaxalone administered into the dorsal opisthosoma in the location of the heart at 200 mg/kg produced moderate anesthetic effect with a median duration of 28 min (n = 3; range 25-50). A combination of 200 mg/kg of alphaxalone and 20 mg/kg of ketamine induced a deep anesthetic state with a median anesthetic duration of 27 min (n = 4; range 16-42). The combination of 200 mg/kg of alphaxalone and 20 mg/kg of xylazine produced deep anesthesia with a median duration of 70 min (n = 4; range 37-207). Morphine administered at 5 mg/kg 30 min prior to injection with 200 mg/kg alphaxalone had anesthetic durations of 9 and 30 min (n = 2). Heartbeats could not be detected for periods of 7-27 min following anesthetic induction for the majority of animals receiving the alphaxalone/ketamine and alphaxalone/xylazine anesthetic combinations. No mortality was associated with any of the anesthetic protocols used; however, ambient temperature and ecdysis were identified as important factors that may alter response to anesthetics in these animals.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  18. This is amazing information. I tried all morning to find info and those two links were thew best I could fine. I didn't even think of it suffocating them. I wish there was a better way to work on her without access to all those chemicals. Thanks for the information!
     
  19. Sure! I edited my post with some info on injectables, and on an easy way to set up an induction chamber. One might be able to purchase 2 cc of isoflurane from a human or a veterinary hospital.
     
  20. Ungoliant

    Ungoliant Malleus Aranearum Staff Member

    I've added links to these posts under the "Tarantula Health Issues" section of the pinned thread Tarantula Information for Beginners (and More).
     
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