Avicularia bicegoi vs Avicularia huriana

[shaneshac]

Hi all

I have found some old posts discussing the difference between these 2 Avics but I cannot see the photos

I collected a wild specimen (sling) in Peru and I believe that it is one of these 2 but I am seeing very different specimens labelled as both these species.

From the older posts it seems these were mixed up sometime in the past with huriana's labelled as bicegoi's

Does anyone have info on how to differentiate them properly?

This is my specimen collected as a sling

Aviculariasp

• shaneshac
• Apr 10, 2016

Here are 2 wild ones I photographed

Avicularia sp

• shaneshac
• Mar 9, 2016
• 7

Avicularia sp from the Nauta region of Perú, Only A urticans is cited there but this is rust...

Avicularia sp

• shaneshac
• Apr 10, 2016
• 4

They look like huriana to me although neither huriana nor bicegoi were cited in the area of Loreto in Peru according to the local guides.

Some help would be appreciated
Regards

 

[Poec54]

Bicegoi are light-colored in every pic I've seen, my huriana juveniles are very dark.

 

[shaneshac]

Thanks, do your huriana juveniles look anything like my juvenile in the first pic?

The problem I have is that bicegoi are cited in Brazil and not Perú

 

[Poec54]

Thanks, do your huriana juveniles look anything like my juvenile in the first pic?

The problem I have is that bicegoi are cited in Brazil and not Perú

No, they are very dark, legs almost black at 3". The spider in your pics looks much more like bicegoi.

We have an Avic lover here, Chase Campbell, member name of CEC. See if you can't get him to weigh in.

 

[cold blood]

No, they are very dark, legs almost black at 3". The spider in your pics looks much more like bicegoi.

We have an Avic lover here, Chase Campbell, member name of CEC. See if you can't get him to weigh in.

@CEC , you're being beckoned my friend

 

[advan]

Hobby "bicegoi" here >>> Clicky

 

[Poec54]

Hobby "bicegoi" here >>> Clicky

Which is a beautiful spider. How does the hobby bicegoi differ from the 'real' one?

 

[CEC]

All I know is hobby forms, not wild forms. Comparing the two is not recommended, even more so with this genus.

I don't see why it couldn't be aurantiaca. Looking at the setae, mainly the abdomen, it is definitely in the urticans complex. The Avic you have pictured has long, thin, and shaggy setae, unlike bicegoi and huriana, which have shorter, thicker, and highlighted abdominal setae.

The complex contains:
urticans
aurantiaca
ulrichea
walckenaeri
sp. "Pucallpa" *might be ulrichea
sp. "Peru Purple" *might be urticans

See here:
http://m.achtbeine.de.tl/urticans-Komplex.htm

Differeces between bicegoi and huriana here:
http://m.achtbeine.de.tl/huriana-Komplex.htm

Overall color is not something to look at for ID, especially in a picture of an Avic. Size, molt cycle, camera type, flash/lighting, etc. all can determine the coloring.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, all I can do with the pictures given is tell you which species it isn't...

 

[CEC]

How does the hobby bicegoi differ from the 'real' one?

From what I have gathered talking to knowledgeable hobbyists, it is possible that what we call sp. amazonica (Manaus) in the hobby is actually the 'real' bicegoi. I have seen many posts from Brazilian hobbyists containing pics and vids of 'wild form' Avics labeled bicegoi (from Manaus) that strongly resembles sp. amazonica (Manaus). This assumption leaves the 'hobby form' bicegoi undescribed or under a different label. I think it's fair to say the two are a different species or form of said species.

In the huriana complex link I provided above shows the 'hobby form' bicegoi are reportedly collected from Peru/Ecuador.

*Read this thread, particularly what Ray Gabriel says in post #7:
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/white-toes-pink-toes-so-many-toes.62770/#post625619

 

[shaneshac]

Thanks for all this info it is appreciated.

The ones above were photographed about 100kms from Iquitos

The bicegoi and aurantiaca in your pics have yellow banding on the leg joints which are not so defined on the species above

Anything I could see from the moult to help me ID it correctly?

 

[CEC]

*Edit ^

 

[shaneshac]

Wow that is a cluster if I ever saw one! Glad I have a pure one to be honest

This info is from 10 years ago. Did the research ever get completed do you know?

 

[advan]

Which is a beautiful spider. How does the hobby bicegoi differ from the 'real' one?

Your guess is as good as mine. What did Mello-Leitao describe in 1923? As usual hobby names are just that. Unless compared to type specimens or keyed out by a competent person then hobby names will stay that way.

From what I have gathered talking to knowledgeable hobbyists, it is possible that what we call sp. amazonica (Manaus) in the hobby is actually the 'real' bicegoi. I have seen many posts from Brazilian hobbyists containing pics and vids of 'wild form' Avics labeled bicegoi (from Manaus) that strongly resembles sp. amazonica (Manaus). This assumption leaves the 'hobby form' bicegoi undescribed or under a different label. I think it's fair to say the two are a different species or form of said species.

You sure they're not just getting it from Rick West's website? Clicky

If anyone wants to translate, have at it. Click me

This info is from 10 years ago. Did the research ever get completed do you know?

There are two people working on an entire revision that should be out in the next few years. See here.

 

[viper69]

There are two people working on an entire revision that should be out in the next few years. See here.

I suspect the revision may occur in more than one paper. I say that because I know Caroline is raising up all the Avic slings herself, doing most of the work herself. A long awaited revision, I have not heard if they are going to employ DNA or rely only on cladistics. I hope they use both. I'm not counting on it as her previous work used only cladistics if I recall correctly.

As for bicegoi that I owned back in 2007, it had similar background color to minatrix, that reddish/brown color, and if I recall white tipped setae, fairly poofy compared to other Avics at the time. I have pics of it, and I'll have to dig them up. I loved its color, perfect disposition too.

 

[CEC]

You sure they're not just getting it from Rick West's website?

As you know, I can't be sure. One could assume hobbyists labeled them only by the info on Rick West's site where he labeled it without comparison or one could assume that Rick West and hobbyists compared them to what Mello-Leitao described.

 

[advan]

or one could assume that Rick West and hobbyists compared them to what Mello-Leitao described.

Then he would of labelled it as such. Not "Avicularia sp."

 

[shaneshac]

Thanks a lot for your comments guys. Looking forward to those revisions. Until that point I wont be able to confirm ID