Australian T: New Phlogius PQ113 sling advice

[mushi]

Hi, I recently (2 days ago) got a Phlogius PQ113 sling and I would appreciate any advice and feedback. This is my first sling and first time setting up an enclosure and I am very worried I have done it incorrectly. I used the items provided by the breeder I purchased from for setup. I am also having a lot of water/moisture on the sides and top of the enclosure.

Please let me know if more photos would help. I don’t currently have any photos of the sling as i’ve only seen it at night and it’s a bit hard to photograph.
Any advice is very appreciated.

 

[Edan bandoot]

@RezonantVoid

 

[RezonantVoid]

Hi, I recently (2 days ago) got a Phlogius PQ113 sling and I would appreciate any advice and feedback. This is my first sling and first time setting up an enclosure and I am very worried I have done it incorrectly. I used the items provided by the breeder I purchased from for setup. I am also having a lot of water/moisture on the sides and top of the enclosure.

Please let me know if more photos would help. I don’t currently have any photos of the sling as i’ve only seen it at night and it’s a bit hard to photograph.
Any advice is very appreciated.

Personally I'd get rid of the cocofibre/coir/cocopeat and switch to a peat moss and desert sand mix for the substrate. There's alot of differing opinions as to the best substrate for Aussie T's but at least IMO, I think the closer you can get to natural soil the better (I actually use wild clay based soils for mine, but it's probably best to start out simple before jumping into the deep end of husbandry). Coir is made of coconut husk chunks or wood which is the definitive opposite of what Phlogius naturally burrow into, and many people observe significantly better reception from the spider to an enclosure when this product is absent (I won't go into all the reasons why).

If fed regularly and kept warm, Phlogius of any species can reach 10cm legspan in as little as 14 months, so I also recommend moving it into a larger setup that will last the spider longer. This way you won't have to rehouse it every few months into a different enclosure, and will only need to do this a couple of times over the spider's life.

Wooden hides/decor work great for them as long as it's native wood and not pine of any kind. I literally just go out into the bush, find a nice looking piece of small gum tree bark, wash it off under the tap and sun dry it, and add it to the enclosure with a starter burrow underneath it. They were very heavy webbers, so they usually make awesome "web castles" around their piece of wood.

Back in early 2018 I bought my first slings, and here is my 14cm Phlogius kuttabul today, once the tiny size of 5mm


Hope this is helpful

 

[aviva]

@RezonantVoid

hey,

Is Bunnings peat moss safe to use or could you recommend a brand that is?

Brunnings 5L Peat Moss - Bunnings Australia

 

[RezonantVoid]

@RezonantVoid

hey,

Is Bunnings peat moss safe to use or could you recommend a brand that is?

Brunnings 5L Peat Moss - Bunnings Australia

Yes this stuff is fine

 

[aviva]

Yes this stuff is fine

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated

 

[cold blood]

Personally I'd get rid of the cocofibre/coir/cocopeat and switch to a peat moss and desert sand mix for the substrate.

Any t can be kept on any of the appropriate subs. Issues that surround coco fiber are;

1. People don't tamp it down, or don't tamp it tightly enough

2. They use the big chunks (which you alluded to) which aren't the best, but most coco fiber options are just as fine and smooth as quality peat.

There's alot of differing opinions as to the best substrate for Aussie T's

Cause there really isnt one...so you will get a lot of differing opinions....sub choice IMO is nothing more than a personal choice.

If you have concrete reasons why coco fiber isnt a good choice, I would love to hear about it, because from a t keeping standpoint, I have never seen a species or genera that showed a genuine preference for or detriment to any single sub type. But my experience specifically with Aussies are obviously less than yours, so I am willing to listen, of course.

I think the closer you can get to natural soil the better

And you suggested peat? Do Aussie ts then live in peat bogs? (just making a point, I know they don't)

Peat is probably the most unnatural of all the substrates we use in this hobby....no? And its the most similar sub we have to coco fiber, which you suggested was a poor choice.

I also recommend moving it into a larger setup that will last the spider longer. This way you won't have to rehouse it every few months into a different enclosure, and will only need to do this a couple of times over the spider's life.

Agreed, good advice.

Wooden hides/decor work great for them as long as it's native wood and not pine of any kind

I love the native wood option and its what I would also do if possible....but there are many non native things one could use as a hide that would offer the same in terms of a hide.

They were very heavy webbers, so they usually make awesome "web castles" around their piece of wood.

They really are, its incredible the amount of webbing they make, its beautiful and quite impressive.

 

[Edan bandoot]

Any t can be kept on any of the appropriate subs. Issues that surround coco fiber are;

1. People don't tamp it down, or don't tamp it tightly enough

2. They use the big chunks (which you alluded to) which aren't the best, but most coco fiber options are just as fine and smooth as quality peat.

Cause there really isnt one...so you will get a lot of differing opinions....sub choice IMO is nothing more than a personal choice.

If you have concrete reasons why coco fiber isnt a good choice, I would love to hear about it, because from a t keeping standpoint, I have never seen a species or genera that showed a genuine preference for or detriment to any single sub type. But my experience specifically with Aussies are obviously less than yours, so I am willing to listen, of course.
And you suggested peat? Do Aussie ts then live in peat bogs? (just making a point, I know they don't)

Peat is probably the most unnatural of all the substrates we use in this hobby....no? And its the most similar sub we have to coco fiber, which you suggested was a poor choice.

Agreed, good advice.
I love the native wood option and its what I would also do if possible....but there are many non native things one could use as a hide that would offer the same in terms of a hide.

They really are, its incredible the amount of webbing they make, its beautiful and quite impressive.

I disagree, I think you more consistently see natural burrowing behavior when you can match the substrate consistency to which they inhabit in the wild.

Although they'll live just as long on coco.

 

[RezonantVoid]

Any t can be kept on any of the appropriate subs. Issues that surround coco fiber are;

1. People don't tamp it down, or don't tamp it tightly enough

2. They use the big chunks (which you alluded to) which aren't the best, but most coco fiber options are just as fine and smooth as quality peat.

Cause there really isnt one...so you will get a lot of differing opinions....sub choice IMO is nothing more than a personal choice.

If you have concrete reasons why coco fiber isnt a good choice, I would love to hear about it, because from a t keeping standpoint, I have never seen a species or genera that showed a genuine preference for or detriment to any single sub type. But my experience specifically with Aussies are obviously less than yours, so I am willing to listen, of course.
And you suggested peat? Do Aussie ts then live in peat bogs? (just making a point, I know they don't)

Peat is probably the most unnatural of all the substrates we use in this hobby....no? And its the most similar sub we have to coco fiber, which you suggested was a poor choice.

Agreed, good advice.
I love the native wood option and its what I would also do if possible....but there are many non native things one could use as a hide that would offer the same in terms of a hide.

They really are, its incredible the amount of webbing they make, its beautiful and quite impressive.

Cocofibre-
Selenotholus and Selenotypus in particular have many times shown an aversion to this material. Slings can adapt to it better, but the overwhelming majority of hobby individuals are WC. They make this very visible by touching every possible object in the enclosure except the substrate, never burrowing, refusing to eat and in some cases, starving themselves to death. Move them over to something else, and guess what happens. Alot of mysterious sling deaths happen here all the time and the common denominator is basically always the use of coir, possibly due to how some types of it release insecticidal compounds as they break down which can be fatal to small invertebrates. There is an ongoing study into this exact topic that I am eagerly awaiting the completion of, and I'll be sure to link it here when it does come.

Phlogius don't seem to have as much of an issue with it, but if half our genera are like that I'd prefer to play it safe and keep all of them in a way that won't annoy any of them. Plus it tends to mold very easily, regardless of how damp, dry or ventilated it's kept.

Peat moss-
Personally, I don't even use peat anymore, nor will I claim that our T's naturally live in it. I can say though that it's a material all 4 genera here almost never take issue with, and once again I'd rather use that than something that some like and some don't. But you'll still get regular surface appearances at night however, with soil I only see this happen if they emerge to drink from the water dish or chase a cricket.

Native wood-
I'm not a fan of cork partly because not many of our spiders are either, but the main annoying thing with getting it or other exotic wood is the price. Various driftwoods can absolutely be perfectly safe materials, and I'd encourage people to go out and choose one they like if they can afford it. But cork and driftwood here can get very expensive, last time I tried ordering it a few years ago it cost me $40 and $20 shipping just to get a small box of even small flat sections, and all my T's avoided it like the plague. Same with driftwoods in pet stores, it can be like $50 for even small pieces of it. I just figure it's easier and cheaper to get some cool looking eucalyptus bark or branches for free from a local bush or even most people's back yards, mold is rarely and issue if you give it a good wash and sun dry it a few times. This also goes for my recommendation of just soil. Its free, literally everywhere, and if you're only harvesting a small amount of it, barely damages the environment at all. Only downsides to it is a bit of effort to collect it and not everybody has easy access to areas with clean soil

All in all, the reasons why I recommend the stuff I do is because I see visibly better results using it. I used coir and even recommended it for years until I started getting annoyed by mold and unhappy specimens, so I tried other options until I got something that fixed everything. But if you've used it for decades for had no problems with it, than I say absolutely keep doing it, especially for burrowers that like fluffy, coarse mixtures such as coastal trapdoors

 

[cold blood]

, I think you more consistently see natural burrowing behavior when you can match the substrate consistency to which they inhabit in the wild.

So by that logic, the only good sub is dirt?

I've seen consistent burrowing behavior in burrowing ts regardless of the sub I use.

 

[RezonantVoid]

So by that logic, the only good sub is dirt?

I've seen consistent burrowing behavior in burrowing ts regardless of the sub I use.

As crazy as it may sound, I'd almost say yes. But at the same time, it's not like just any dirt from any random locality will always be the best option either. For example if you live somewhere like me with sticky wetland clay under my house, this can be disastrous for coating scopuli and blocking a spider's mouth, as is the sandy soil a 15 minutes away for anything except Stanwellia. In cases where you can't get a good soil type, you're better off just sticking with tried and trusted stuff. I drive 45 minutes away to get the stuff I use for my T's and about an hour to get the clay I use for my larger trapdoors

 

[Edan bandoot]

So by that logic, the only good sub is dirt?

I've seen consistent burrowing behavior in burrowing ts regardless of the sub I use.

Dirt, clay whatever they live in.