Atrax Robustus as a pet

[Gigas]

I know there are Atrax in european collections, As crotalus says, its a matter of time.

 

[Crotalus]

I know there are Atrax in european collections, As crotalus says, its a matter of time.

And Hadronyche. Sooner or later the eggsacks will come and another genus is established in captivity and soon all forgets that the first specimens was indeed smuggled out...

 

[Steve Nunn]

And Hadronyche. Sooner or later the eggsacks will come and another genus is established in captivity and soon all forgets that the first specimens was indeed smuggled out...

Hi Lelle,
For sure this will happen. And to be honest, it will probably be no threat to the spiders in the wild here, the FW's are typically in good numbers. If people started to look at the rarer types in small locales (some of the South Australian forms and H.anzses up in Nth Qld), that might be a concern from a conservation standpoint. My real concern would be these spiders getting in the hands of less experienced keepers, who may not know how dangerous these spiders really are. With respect, I think ANY arachnid can be cared for in captivity without danger to the keeper, but we are human, we make mistakes, and a mistke with a FW could mean a death. In a domino effect type scenario I would worry about the negative impacts on captive keeping of all arachnids.

It's hard to compare the stings of dangerous scorpions to a FW bite. This is from a recent post on the ATF site from a registered nurse who has cared for bite victims:

I have looked after six victims of funnel web envenomation. It is a horrible experience, and most of our cases had not returned to work or normal activities six months later.
The males are very aggressive at certain times and have a predeliction for hiding in shoes on the back door step, or clothing left on the floor. You are correct that they are very specifically lethal for primataes, just due to an accident of agent/receptor fit.

We hear about deaths from bites, because of the antivenine there are no more deaths, however there are still bites with horrific results, even though the patient will survivie.

It is important to consider that without the antivenine (only produced in Australia) there is very little a hospital can do to stop the immediate systemic symptoms.

That is the only problem I have with the FW being present overseas, I really don't think it's a conservation issue in this instance at all.

I know full well that elapids and many other dangerous animals are kept in captivity too, which has already resulted in numerous deaths causing concern. I just don't know if the arachnid keeping community is ready to tackle the issue just yet, we are in minute numbers compared to herp keepers and we may not have the power those guys have to fight for their rights????

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

I would regard keeping a FW the same as a venomous snakes - if the right person do it its no problem. Its when idiots get hold of dangerous animals it might not be so good for the hobby.
There are several places in Europe that legally store atrax serum. How it is in the US I dont know but the spider do occur in sokme laboratories so I guess there are some serum there too.
As for numerous deaths from captive elapids, I know of one case in Canada (Naja sp.). Im sure there are others but to be honest there are few. No death from a captive venomous snake in Sweden (and the venomous snake hobby goes back to the 1950s or so)

 

[Steve Nunn]

I would regard keeping a FW the same as a venomous snakes - if the right person do it its no problem.

Hi Lelle,
I agree completely. But, while there are some limitied stores of Atrax antivenine overseas, will it be available to a bite victim at the time? After all the damage is done very quickly with a FW bite and a compression bandage (the FW is the only spider group whereby a compression bandage needs to be applied, as in many dangerous elapids) can only remain on a limb for so long

Also to consider, the only reason we don't see more deaths from elapids in captivity is the availability of antivenine, without that and there would indeed be many more. However, I can never see masses of people keeping FW's, I don't think they would ever reach epidemic proportions in captivity, perhaps the concern is not so great.......

But a certain responsibility must remain I would think, should these get to other shores....for example I wouldn't like to see them available ever to the general public, these just will never be pet store material. It would be nice to see responsible dealers keep them for their most trusted and experienced keepers who know full well the dangers involved. I've heard nightmare stories of hot scorpions for sale in US and UK petshops, that scares the bejeebus out of me when I think of FW's.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

Death after 15 min or so after a bite is extremely rare so atleast around Europe the serum should be available in time. But who knows, even if you get serum there is allways a risk.

The reason why not more people are dead from elapid bites is probably because of the effective serum to most species and a elapid bite, if treated, is far less dangerous then many viper bites which can cause problems long after you been released from hospital.

The hot scorps are sometimes sold in pet stores but its often a mistaken ID. The stores simply believe its a less venomous species then it is or they dont have the correct information of the species.

 

[Steve Nunn]

The hot scorps are sometimes sold in pet stores but its often a mistaken ID. The stores simply believe its a less venomous species then it is or they dont have the correct information of the species.

That's what worries me. Particularly with illegal animals, if a bunch of unidentifed Aussie mygales come in, and one of them is an FW, that is just scary. However I don't think that has happend yet

And yeah, viper bites are just ugly. I once saw the end results of a bite from a viper to some poor dudes groin, bad news. Glad I keep spiders hey, an occasional python here and there, but they won't hurt

I do have an occasional dangerous spider or two, but hey, they are easy to keep if you know what you have.

Steve

 

[buthus]

Was trying to stir up a little info. Thanks Steve.

I'm guessing you surfed the net to find out about IATA regualtions, which is why you couldn't find the info

Bingo, I was looking around online. Seems to me that should be something available online. Its a small world nowdays. So, that begs the question...why couldn't I find it?
You guys that have experience and knowledge regarding international shipping (and national ...no matter where you are) should have a sticky on the subject. As far as I can tell, this is THE forum for the arachnid hobby. When someone searches for info on shipping their results should lead them here. Don't ya think?

 

[Steve Nunn]

Hi,
Yes I think this thread contributes to that for sure

Steve

 

[Stefan2209]

So, that begs the question...why couldn't I find it?

Hi there,

IATA regulates more or less air-safety topics. Some of them are just public available, some of them are not, depends on topics.

Best method to keep things safe (in regard of terrorist or criminal activities) is to not let the other side know how you operate.

However, regarding that part of the IATA protocol, me personally doesn´t think that the probability of anybody performing an attack in a jet plane using a venomous spider is all too high...

Greetings,

Stefan

 

[buthus]

However, regarding that part of the IATA protocol, me personally doesn´t think that the probability of anybody performing an attack in a jet plane using a venomous spider is all too high...

Snakes...maybe, but spiders? ...never. :wall:

 

[Mikey_Deadcat]

Thanks for all the info

Well yes to agree with some of you i would not like to see an Atrax Robustus in the hands of general public. But i have a undeniable interest in invertebrates and I would only keep it to further my knowledge of funnel webs theres not that much info on there habits and id like to be able to record some of there behavior. But i do have my doubts about the authenticity of this atrax the person offering isnt a close friend or anything just a local dealer. So i probably wont be buying it but is there any way possible i could purchase one legally from a zoo or lab or maybe some other way?

 

[Tarantula]

I wouldnt mind keeping this species.. really beautiful! Only seen a German keeping this species.

 

[Galadriel]

Having worked at a zoo many years ago as a keeper, I can tell you we never bought or sold anything to private collectors. Your chances of legally obtaining any animal from a zoological institution are slim to none.

 

[Brian S]

I would venture to guess that the spider in question isnt A robustus at all but probably some Asian FW or Mygale that occasionally gets imported into the US and Europe.
I know of at least one time that an Asian Mygale got imported (cant remember which one) and was automatically labeled "Dangerous Funnel Web" which then was changed to Aussie Funnel Web after they changed hands a few times. Can any of you remember this? This was about 4 or 5 years or so ago.

 

[dymndgyrl]

Having worked at a zoo many years ago as a keeper, I can tell you we never bought or sold anything to private collectors. Your chances of legally obtaining any animal from a zoological institution are slim to none.

But there are institutions posing as zoos that will sell animals:

http://www.bugzoo.bc.ca/prices.htm

 

[Gigas]

those are hardly note worthy species though

 

[cardiacpa]

Who said it is illegal?
I called the US Dept of the Interior Fish & Wildlife Service Law enforcement division because I'm starting to have spiders shipped from overseas. I was informed that as long as you fill out the proper forms claiming what your package contains so the port authorities know whats up, your in the clear. The guy I talked was an old guy that has worked for FWS for many years... talked my ear off and said he deals with many regular importers of arachnids. According to him there are no species of arachnid that are illegal to import into the US. The only thing one needs to consider is State and local laws regarding exotic pets.



The male Atrax delivers one bad arse bite, but is it as bad as some of these scorps that I see being sold? I doubt it.

My opinion is that you MIGHT be able to get an Atrax robustus in the US. But what "IF" do you get a bite? There is ZERO antivenom for that bite here in the US. That spider is not here in the US and therefore no expected bites... I would leave that guy for the down-under collectors.

 

[The Snark]

Viewing the overall state of affairs in the US at present, I recommend several Atrax in every home, preferably free ranging.