Assasin Bugs question

[Elytra and Antenna]

Just curious,.. not getting involved in this discussion,...

As long as we're off on tangents... I promise you'll love the new millipede book. It's not limited in scope and depth like the centipede book --which was in itself limited by reportable information. The millipede book includes qualified rearing info, a number of egg and immature shots and identifications on a many species you probably don't know the name of which were ID'd by a taxonomist you certainly do know.

Are you going to write me a good centipede article? (yes or no is sufficient)

 

[Steven]

please stay on topic and post myriopoda-related info here >

 

[Nikos]

You bring up supporting information that the ones known as P."mombo" were in fact wild-caught.

Indeed, but, to my understading, they are wild-caught hybrids.

P."mombo" throw an abberant form where nymphs are only black and white and adults looks sort of like P.biguttata.

aren't they all whitish when they molt?

Hybrid biguttata/rhadamanthus shouldn't throw that form. Do you have some in your culture? Oddly enough if you put hatchlings of all three together you couldn't really tell them apart except for the abberant form P.'mombo'.

as I said in the first post I keep some of the orange spoted assasins and I have no idea if they can be what you call P."mombo" or even better if this p."mombo" really exists!

BTW: the original description is P.biguttata (not P.biguttatus) -us does match the genus but it's not the original description and can't be changed.

Indeed you're absolutely correct but I guess you must have noticed that I was quoting from the article, right?

Personaly I don't think that the P.mombos are a different specie or subspecie or whatever based on the evidence we have so far.

P.S.: I'm far from expert and I'm posting my own beliefs here.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

Indeed, but, to my understading, they are wild-caught hybrids.

There is no evidence or any reason to draw that conclusion. He didn't witness wild P.biguttata and P.rhadamanthus breeding. P."mombo" is a wild-caught animal which IS VERY DIFFERENT from the captive crosses of P.biguttata X P. rhadamanthus. If you don't have info. on your stock you can be sure it's a cross.

aren't they all whitish when they molt?

No, they are bright pink-orange. The abberant form are always white and black and if you notice that one was feeding so it's exoskeleton had to be developed.

P.S.: I'm far from expert and I'm posting my own beliefs here.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I tried to help you with information and I did correct you. Don't ask to be corrected if you prefer to argue.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

please stay on topic

Don't lecture me tangent master.
Other invertebrates are discussed on this forum --per the title.
I'll bet you buy a copy of the millipede book.

 

[Steven]

Don't lecture me tangent master.

I wouldn't even dare to lecture you :worship: :worship: :worship:

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

Can I get that in writing?

 

[Nikos]

There is no evidence or any reason to draw that conclusion.

may I return that back?
From post #1 I'm trying to find a proof that indeed the mombos are a differnt specie. Do you have any?
I don't and until I found one, I'll consider them hybrids.

I tried to help you with information and I did correct you. Don't ask to be corrected if you prefer to argue.

Your info is highly appreciated and I thank you for this cause you're far more experienced with platymeris sp. than me.
I do not prefer to argue in any way cause it's just not my style but I would like to have proof that the mombos are indeed a different specie other than that they are bigger and/or more colorful.
Size and color can be based on feeding, climax and millions of other parameters.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

I'll consider them hybrids.

Why can't you understand? The P."mombo" are unidentified but that doesn't mean they're hybrids of anything. They're a wild-caught animal. They could be a subspecies or variant of a known species or an undescribed. That is why the name is in " ". While there is good evidence P.biguttata and P.rhadamanthus cross, noone has tried to cross either with P."momb".
By your unscientific reasoning any new animal collected from Africa has to be a hyrid of some other species? If I find a new appearing mammal it must be a hybrid between a giraffe and a gazelle until it is formally described.
The animals you have are an in-captivity cross of P.biguttata and P.rhadamanthus. Over here we haven't destroyed our bloodlines.
Of course animal size can be shrunk by food and housing -- the reference is to maximum size.

 

[Steven]

Can I get that in writing?

what do you honestly think ?

I'll bet you buy a copy of the millipede book.

mmmm,... naaah

and identifications on a many species you probably don't know the name of which were ID'd by a taxonomist you certainly do know.

LOL and my brother is bigger and stronger then you ;P
please don't tell me you're older then 14 !

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

what do you honestly think ?

I think you're a person who makes up things to sound smart. Where are your pill millipede life cylce photos anyway?
I thought you'd find the taxonomy aspect very interesting and hadn't considered you'd make such a peculiar response.

 

[Wade]

I think at least some of this discussion is fueled by language barriers or at least different usages of words.

Normallly, the word "hybrid" is used to describe crosses that occured in captivity, either deliberately or accidently. Wild-collected insects from the mombo region would not fit this definition, since this form is naturally occuring.

Some might use the word "hybrid" to describe a naturally occuring cross, but really the word "intergrade" is more appropriate.

The mombos may represent an intergrade between the whites and the reds, but we'd have to know a lot more about the distribution of the species. First of all, we'd have to know if the range of the whites overlaps the mombos on one side, and the mombos with the reds on the other side. If the ranges of the three are broken up, then they should at least be considered subspecies if not completely seperate species. If the range is continious, then it gets tougher. Odds are though, distict species may be out of the question at that point, but the naming of subspecies when intergrades exist is somewhat dubious. Somebody woulde have to do a lot of work to really know what's going on here, since the combined range is like the width of Africa, right?

Meanwhile, we have three assassin bugs of this genus in the hobby. We may never know how they should properly be described scientifically, but it really shouldn't matter. If we start crossing them, we could end up with only one. The colors may reflect nothing more than regional variants, but so what? It's no reason to start crossing them, we enjoy the variants don't we?

Wade

 

[Steven]

I think you're a person who makes up things to sound smart. Where are your pill millipede life cylce photos anyway?
I thought you'd find the taxonomy aspect very interesting and hadn't considered you'd make such a peculiar response.

if this is about the ID of morsitans,... please get over it and prove it i'm making stuff up,... and if you need to insult me,... please continue cause you're only making me laugh and feeling sorry for you.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

if this is about the ...QUOTE] Where are the pictures of any part of the life cycle of your captive bred Madagascan pill millipedes (all you produced was a picture of a mushroom from the grocery store). Impressive mushroom and all but not quite the evidence one would hope for...

 

[Steven]

stil can't keep it on topic hé ?
maybe it's time to quote from your PM to clear out the morsitans thing first.

about the pils:
1: have i ever said I had CB madagascan pils ? NO.
did i bought young CB pils from another hobbyist ? YES.
(please read the topics a bit more carefully)

if you're trying to accuse me from making stuff up,...
please do some more efforts !

BTW the picture of the mushroom was to help you find out what a "champignon" was,...

enough time wasted.

 

[Nikos]

The mombos may represent an intergrade between the whites and the reds, but we'd have to know a lot more about the distribution of the species.

AMEN brother!!!!!!! :worship:
that's exactly what I think, they may be a different specie but until now we cannot confirm this.

In addition thanks for the clarification on the hybrid term, appreciated!

Why can't you understand? The P."mombo" are unidentified but that doesn't mean they're hybrids of anything. They're a wild-caught animal. They could be a subspecies or variant of a known species or an undescribed.

as you said, they could be.

By your unscientific reasoning.....

let me have your scientific reasoning then;
but please in PM cause I guess we're off topic now and the rest of the commonity is sick and tired of this endless discussion which by the way isn't gona lead us anywhere.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

PM to clear out the morsitans thing first.

The PM had nothing to do with your misinformation on morsitans. What does PM stand for?

1: have i ever said I had CB madagascan pils ?

Yes, you said you got them as immatures. It's odd your unknown acquaintence didn't take pics but more odd you still never took pictures of the little guys. They grow slow. If it's true you have plenty of time to show some proof. Let's see the immature pictures then? How about a molt? Immatures molt regularly. You have nothing at all to show for your story.

BTW the picture of the mushroom

I offered a number of different mushroom species to the Madagascan pills and they won't touch any. They're substrate feeders but I still tried your story. I hadn't been certain you were making up things on purpose before then.

 

[bugsnstuff]

just to add here

P.sp. 'mombo' aren't unidentified, they are just yet to be formally described.

they have been around for about 4-5 years, i have had them in African shipments in the past.

for a couple of years i kept and bred the three known species, would be nice if they eventually got around to formally describing sp. 'mombo' even if it is a sub-species or colour variant

 

[Steven]

The PM had nothing to do with your misinformation on morsitans. What does PM stand for?

excuse me ? better put some proof on your morsitans-ID in your pede-guide (which i asked for several times but still no reply not even a single answer or link,...
i've given you plenty of URL's where to find info (free to download !),... you ? NONE !

Let's see the immature pictures then? How about a molt? Immatures molt regularly. You have nothing at all to show for your story.

ever used the search button ?

I offered a number of different mushroom species to the Madagascan pills and they won't touch any. They're substrate feeders but I still tried your story. I hadn't been certain you were making up things on purpose before then.

and what kinda substrate you're subscribing ?

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

excuse me ? better put some proof

I gave you at least one taxonomic source (literature) last time. That might be the problem here: I consult papers, taxonomist and books while you ID online. The results aren't likely to be the same.

ever used the search button ?

Could you please be polite and helpful and provide the link?

and what kinda substrate you're subscribing ?

I don't understand this question.