Asian vine snake @ dinner

[UrbanJungles]

I had a female drop some tiny skinny little babies, I sent them off to a zoo in Fl. because we couldn't get newborn anoles for feeders which is about the only thing they could eat...did I mention they were tiny?

 

[dtknow]

How tiny is tiny? Did the zoo succeed with them? Still have the female? I wonder if this sp. can drop multiple clutches from one mating?

I think what someone needs to do is setup a breeding colony of house geckos(or lepidodactylus lugubris, whichever is more prolific) to feed these guys. Apparently they will eat fish in captivity, so perhaps babies could be fed on small frogs/guppies alongside of geckos?

 

[UrbanJungles]

How tiny is tiny? Did the zoo succeed with them? Still have the female? I wonder if this sp. can drop multiple clutches from one mating?

If I recall corectly the babies were less than 5 inches long, I don't remember for sure but I remember they had the diameter around half of that of a good sized newborn garter snake...they were extremely thin. They could possibly take guppies but I never tried it.

I don't really know if any of the offspring where successfully reared as I never followed up on them. The female lived for about 2 more years before succumbing to a bad parasitical complication and never dropped anymore babies. We had acquired her as a fairly fresh import so he was probably gravid from a recent mating in the wild as these snakes have a high population density.

 

[dtknow]

How is the survival rate with the imports? Are they sexed easily. It isn't encouraging to here you lost the female.

 

[UrbanJungles]

Imports come in heavily parasitized and have to be routinely wormed in captivity if fed on anoles (anoles themselves have heavy parasite loads because of the way they are kept at wholesaler's places). Treating them every 6 months after obtaining some fecals is helpful, but if you can switch them over to rodents they are less likely to suffer from parasite problems.

When freshly imported, for some reason these guys come in with alot of subdermal worms...these have to be removed via minor surgical incisions or they will cause problems later on. I have never seen any other species of snake in the pet trade which comes in with such a high rate of subdermal parasites, I have no idea why.

Sexing is straight forward with males having proportionately thicker tails that can be verified via probing...females also get a bit chunkier from what I've seen.

Care should be taken with this species, their venom is often described as very weak an inconsequential to humans but that's what was thought about the African Boomslang for a long long time until someone died from a bite one day. These vinesnakes luckily are generally reluctant to bite although they put on a good display with puffing and mouth gaping sometimes.

Definitely one of the most interesting snakes you can own, their behavior and camouflage is infinitely interesting to me. I love the way they sway...

:clap:

 

[dtknow]

Wow...sounds like a lot of work to get them stabilized, not to mention vet bills! I take it support from a qualified exotics vet is a necessity for any kind of success with these guys?

Have you thought of breeding geckos or whatever to feed them on? Would that eliminate the parasite problem? Or perhaps the anoles could be wormed.

I am fascinated by the adaptations of arboreal rainforest snakes, and this sp. seems like one of the "climax" sp. in this regard. Shame they don't do well in captivity and don't have much to reccomend them to even people who somewhat know what they are doing(much less a beginner!)

Are you still working with them at all? I bet their would be a pretty decent demand for CB vinesnakes.

 

[UrbanJungles]

Wow...sounds like a lot of work to get them stabilized, not to mention vet bills! I take it support from a qualified exotics vet is a necessity for any kind of success with these guys?

Have you thought of breeding geckos or whatever to feed them on? Would that eliminate the parasite problem? Or perhaps the anoles could be wormed.

I am fascinated by the adaptations of arboreal rainforest snakes, and this sp. seems like one of the "climax" sp. in this regard. Shame they don't do well in captivity and don't have much to reccomend them to even people who somewhat know what they are doing(much less a beginner!)

Are you still working with them at all? I bet their would be a pretty decent demand for CB vinesnakes.

It's really not that bad...they are hardy once acclimated and well hydrated. They can do well in captivity but few people bother to set them up properly, especially since they are cheap and common (like what happens to Meller's Chameleons).

From what I've seen they do really well when setup like a Chameleon with daily mistings, a basking spot and lots of ventilation and most importantly, space to roam. They don't do well in small enclosures, especially glass. They are relatively cheap (you can find them for under 20 dollars if you are looking to start a group and can buy quantity) and I'd say you have a better than 50% success rate with imports. No one really consistently keeps this species long term, it's a worthwile project IMO.

I do not work with them professionally anymore and my home state deems them illegal to keep without venomous permits which I don't keep for my personal collection.

 

[dtknow]

What size enclosure would be needed to keep one?


Did you keep any other individuals besides that female?

 

[UrbanJungles]

Over my career as a zookeeper and Biologist I've kept several specimens and while in college I worked for a local importer who often got them in. They really are a favorite species of mine and I've been lucky to keep several individuals over the span of my career so far.

I personally would do some overkill and set up one or even two (although you should quarantine them individually) in a 2x2x4 cage with a nice lush live plant like a healthy ficus or schefflera with some additional rigid perching in the way of some thicker vines or dried lianas. They have one of the most incredible eyesight capabilities of any snake and will find their food just fine along the foliage. A water bowl is good, especially an arboreal one although they will mostly drink when sprayed. I used bird dishes with hooks that hook right onto the mesh allowing you to place the bowl up high where they will come in contact. Provide a spotlight up on top for the plants and to allow the snake to thermo-regulate. Keep the light on a 12/12 cycle. I would cover the back and one of the sides with plastic sheeting to help keep a little humidity in a screen cage and to provide a splash-guard since you should mist them daily, especially when shedding although this can be hard to tell.

Get them on mice like the OP and you will have a rewarding experience, document all of your observations and share them with fellow enthusaists.

C'mon, you know you NEED one....

 

[dtknow]

Haha man, you don't even know! :wall: :drool: My living situations(home folks do not like snakes, college not sure what one roomie will think) are probably not the most suitable but I can dream.

Found a neat website with a case of captive birth.
http://www.geocities.com/ahaetullavineyard/frames.htm

No idea if the young were reared successfully but guppies(despite being a very unnatural prey item!) seemed to do the trick.

Your setup sounds like exactly what I was thinking...does not sound like overkill. I don't know why reptile people are so scared of live plants. You think they will do ok together even? I read on some forums of a male being killed after mating with a female.

Also, are you talking of a completely screen cage? I'd be tempted to put in a Lexan front for better viewing but read that these snakes occasionally strike at the glass and injure themselves so screen is reccomended. I'm guessing maintenance would be a almost daily spot cleaning and perhaps monthly breaking down of tank and cleaning(perhaps with some kind of Reptile safe disinfectant?) Probably a dumb question but I do mainly amphibian and "natural style" enclosures.

I'm wondering also(switching to mice might work but I am not too keen on forcefeeding a rear fanged snake, though I've heard you can feed them a lizard first and then put a mouse in their mouths as they are swallowing the lizard) if perhaps local fence lizards would be a viable option(in my state you can take a good number with a fishing license). They are rather prickly buggers and somewhat bitey but I bet vine snakes probably tackle arboreal agamids in the wild(Calotes) which are also quite prickly and bitey. Ideally as far as parasites go it seems a diet of mice(live hoppers/pinkies), fish, and perhaps baby quail would do.


thanks so much for this invaluable info!

 

[Craig]

Very cool picture!

 

[UrbanJungles]

As far as your idea on caging goes you are right, it's best to cover one or two sides with lexan or even a good thick mylar over the mesh...it will help with humidity and keep alot of the water spray in the cage as you mist.

For feeding babies, I know that people who breed Ryhncophis (Asian Rhino RatSnakes) will start off the babies on guppies and eventually move them onto pinks as they shed and grow a bit....I don't see why you couldn't do the same.

I think as long as you provide enough perching space and foiliage to hide on you can do two snakes although I could see feeding time as an issue.