Arizona Bark Scorpion advice

[EmperorKuzco]

Hey guys, I have added some new members to the creature fam. I have some questions on both but will post the other species questions separate to keep them easier to follow.

So last night I brought home an Arizona Bark Scorpion (Centruroides sculpturatus), he is pretty small currently so I have him in a small tank.(not sure the exact size) Hehas some room to roam, he has a large cork bark piece standing in one corner. Substrate is a mix of coarse beach sand, and coco fiber. There is a heat pad on the back of the tank, because it’s winter here and can get pretty cold at night in the room I am keeping him in.

Based on info I have found online, my setup is exactly what he needs. I understand at this size he needs small crickets or even pinheads possibly. The only thing I’m missing from my understanding is a VERY small, shallow waterdish.

So my questions:

1. Am I missing anything majorly important in his current setup?
2. Is the substrate proper for this species?
3. Do I need to raise humidity before he molts/how do I tell he is going to molt?
4. How often should I be sending crickets to their doom at the hands of Jafar (that is his name as of this moment lol)

Those are my specific questions, any other advice you wonderful and wise people can share would be greatly appreciated!!
Thank you all in advance!

 

[CritterKeeper21]

I would do more layered, horizontal hides. Layered rocks or pieces of wood, stuff like that. I also just use pure pool filter sand, except where I use pure coir (I'll elaborate later).

I tend to feed my C. Sculpturatus colony crickets that are the same size as the smallest scorpion. They can take down bigger but they tend to be kinda cowardly and it's not worth the risk.

How I currently have my baby is that I moved the sand from one corner of the tank and replaced it with pure cocoa coir. I then layered wood shims over that corner, fanning out a bit onto the pure sand. I try to keep that coir moist. It has successfully molted under that so I think it's a decent set up. I think having a humidity gradient is safest because then they can just manage themself and you don't have to worry so much about mycosis.

As for frequency of feeding, I tend do it depending on how fast it eats. If I feed it and it hunts the cricket down within hours, I feed it again the next day. If it leaves it a few days, I'll remove the cricket and try again in a few days. Since your scorpion is unfamiliar to you, watch how it interacts with the cricket. If it runs scared whenever a cricket comes by, try smaller crickets. I infodump when I'm dehydrated.

Also, pretty sure Jafar is female

 

[EmperorKuzco]

Thank you for the reply, I am a little confused on the setup of the coir corner. Any chance for a picture to elaborate a bit further? How can you tell it’s female? Is this species sexed different than the P. Imperator? (That is the only species I have any, not much but some experience sexing)

 

[CritterKeeper21]

Thank you for the reply, I am a little confused on the setup of the coir corner. Any chance for a picture to elaborate a bit further? How can you tell it’s female? Is this species sexed different than the P. Imperator? (That is the only species I have any, not much but some experience sexing)

Full tank (baby iso)

Coir corner

Coir corner cross section

And for sexing, I'm sure you could google a better pic but essentially the shapes of their rear areas are different shapes. This is my rough drawing.

That's the best I can do for that unfortunately. It's also kinda hard to tell from your pics bit like 80% sure. A straight down shot with tail down could help me confirm.

Also I did this on mobile so sorry if formatting is hell. I'll fix it later

 

[EmperorKuzco]

Thank you, the pictures definitely help, that is not at all what I was imagining. If I don’t have wood available like that, any reason to believe that reptibark/cork ark would work for this purposes?

 

[CritterKeeper21]

Thank you, the pictures definitely help, that is not at all what I was imagining. If I don’t have wood available like that, any reason to believe that reptibark/cork ark would work for this purposes?

That's probably fine. I just like shims because I work at a hardware store so they are accessible for me, they're cheap, and they are pretty flat so they layer well. They'd probably be fine with anything though.

 

[EmperorKuzco]

If they are cheap I may look into getting some, I don’t have a lot of space to work with in that tank though. I really appreciate the help though, I wasn’t sure how to handle the humidity when it came to molting.
Based on her size, small crickets wouldn’t be bigger than her, so I don’t think I need to get pinheads.

 

[EmperorKuzco]

It’s a little improvised, but do you think this will work for the humid corner?

 

[CritterKeeper21]

If they are cheap I may look into getting some, I don’t have a lot of space to work with in that tank though. I really appreciate the help though, I wasn’t sure how to handle the humidity when it came to molting.
Based on her size, small crickets wouldn’t be bigger than her, so I don’t think I need to get pinheads.

The baby in the pic I sent takes smalls too if that helps at all.

It’s a little improvised, but do you think this will work for the humid corner?

Probably. I like throwing lots of clutter on the pile personally because I think they prefer it, but as long as there is enough room for your scorpion to get under it's probably fine. In case more examples of what I do would help, this is my communal tank and I know most of the scorpions live in the pile. I just try to channel the vibes in my alleyway lol.


(ignore all the poop please, it's hard to get it off without freaking out the scorpions)


Oops and I guess I missed my chance to fix the formatting on my previous reply. Well I guess that will just stay like that.

 

[EmperorKuzco]

Not sure if you can tell with anymore certainty from these pictures, but here are some "close ups" of Jafar (I have yet to come up with another name) I know they all look very similar, I did the best I could with the angle he/she was at on the back of his standing bark.

After thought here I should ask as well, he/she has not eaten since I brought him home last Saturday, I have offered small crickets but he will not take them, just runs away or completely ignores them as they move through his/her home.
Should I be concerned? I was under the impression that at this small of size they would eat more regularly.

 

[CritterKeeper21]

Not sure if you can tell with anymore certainty from these pictures, but here are some "close ups" of Jafar (I have yet to come up with another name) I know they all look very similar, I did the best I could with the angle he/she was at on the back of his standing bark.

Okay, I think I was wrong. They're a bit less lanky than the males that come immediately to mind for me but they're definitely looking more male than female. Unfortunately the only scorpions out at the moment are a phenomenally gravid female and a very skinny male (just caught him), so I'm lacking in good comparisons . I'll still add them to this so you can see but I'd recommend getting a second opinion on your dude. On my first two pics I've tried to mark the areas I compare most and the last pic I took about a month ago and is potato quality but might be useful.

 

[JenVegas]

Jafar is beautiful! You got him Saturday?

I wouldn't worry that he hasn't eaten yet. I think he's male, and my males are wayyy pickier eaters than my females. But they can be picky eaters in general. My smallest male has only eaten once in the 3-ish months that I've had him. He's doing just fine. I offer him a little cricket every week, and if he wants it, he'll take it, and if he doesn't, he'll run away.

Males are faster and more agile than females, so they tend to run and hide when threatened, while females are more aggressive and more likely to fight, because they're too slow to effectively and reliably get away. I don't even have many good pictures of my two smallest males, because they're just lightning fast. Like, crazy fast.

If Jafar's go-to move is to run away from the cricket, he may be male. Especially if he's super fast and can climb quickly. Even my smaller, lighter females can't climb as fast as the males can.

They can go months without eating, and typically do in winter. I've definitely noticed a drop in interest the last few weeks, even with my most reliable eaters. Not even my two 3i babies are eating much. Even though their tank is heated and their temps are monitored. They just aren't very interested.

If he's scared of live crickets, I've found it helps to crush the cricket's head first, then offer it to them with feeding tongs. I do that even with my adults, just because crickets are notorious for eating scorpions and I don't want to have to keep track of 14 of them, and I like knowing who has eaten and who hasn't.

They aren't going to eat every week. They may not even eat every month.

But they'll eat when they're hungry. I wouldn't worry that Jafar hasn't eaten yet. Just let him be and try again in a week.

I've spent over $75 on hides and tank decorations, but the only things they use regularly are the cut up egg cartons I tossed in. All 14 of them will pile up on top of each other in two little cups, completely ignoring the 4 other hides (plus a separate humid hide) and multiple climbing surfaces carefully arranged throughout their tank.

I mean...



They have so much space, I swear. I put so much effing thought and effort into making their tank look cool while also making them feel safe and secure. But no, the only thing the little brats use is the egg carton that came with the feeder crickets.

Even the psycho-aggressive mamas will eventually calm down and curl up with the rest, babies and all. There's just something about that egg carton that they really, really, really like.

So you definitely don't have to go the expensive route, just get something cheap and simple like CritterKeeper described. If Jafar likes it, he'll let you know.

And I agree with CritterKeeper, the first pictures looked female-ish, but the others definitely look closer to male.

Males are skinnier and longer, while females are bigger and more "hefty." But for me personally, the easiest way to tell is the tail.

Most of my males are noticeably smaller than most of my females, but Felix and Pineapple (pictured below) are almost exactly the same size. And shortly after I got Felix, he went on a desperate "love hunt," so I got plenty of pictures of him chasing and harassing the females, until they got irritated and taught him manners (they were all already gravid and had zero interest).

But that was helpful because you can see the difference between him and Pineapple. His tail is significantly longer in relation to his body. His pedipalps are also bigger in relation to his body:



This is him with Sandy (I think, this was awhile ago). You can see just how much smaller and thinner he is, but if you laid them both straight out, he'd probably still be longer than her:



And here's my biggest male, Alfredo, with my biggest female, Angry Girl. You can see the difference in tails. And despite the fact that his body is almost as long as hers, she's easily twice his girth (though to be fair, she was gravid when this was taken. Even now, though, she's significantly wider than all of my males):



It's also easy to tell when they're taking down food. If the tail is long enough to easily reach the poor unfortunate dinner, it's likely a male:



If they look like they have to curl their body a bit to reach the food, it's likely a female:



So I'm definitely thinking Jafar is a less-lanky boy.

Though I once thought one of mine, Ramen, was a male, and turns out, she's just a very lanky, long female (which I found out when she popped out a bunch of kids. She didn't even look like a female, much less a gravid one). So it's not foolproof, unless you can get a picture of the little comb-like structures underneath and count the teeth (I put them in a smooth glass container and take a picture from underneath them to get a clear look).

Males have larger and more pronounced teeth, and more of them (20-25-ish), while females have smaller and fewer teeth (18-23-ish). Those numbers might be slightly off, you may want to double check first. But even without counting, you can generally tell just by the size whether it's male or female.

Here's a male:



And a female:



Hope this helps!

 

[EmperorKuzco]

Wow, thank you @JenVegas, that was a lot of useful info! I definitely believe Jafar to be a he at this point.

What temp do you keep yours at, and what are your methods? He has a heat mat on the back of the tank, but he is always huddled near it, so I got a Zoo Med Nano 25w Ceramic heat emitter, but that hold the ENTIRE tank at like 85°F, which doesn't help the temp gradient. Worried he is too warm, but he is also not wandering like he is stressed or uncomfortable, he now hides on the back side of the standing bark in the shade and doesn't hug the wall.

I believed that to be a good sign, but when checked the temp in the tank the 85° all over concerned me. The tank is really not all that large, but the heat mat didn't seem to be enough for him. (the design of my townhome is really garbage, I have all my inverts currently on a desk downstairs, but the thermostat is upstairs, which means when it gets cold downstairs the heater doesn't get kicked on because the thermostat is not triggered)

I REALLY appreciate everyone's input, as I am so new to the hobby, I don't have any experience to go off of. I do tons of research but some questions can't be answered via google.

 

[JenVegas]

85 isn't bad. I'm used to reptiles actively moving around to thermoregulate, but haven't noticed that as much with the scorpions. They're not as picky about temperature.

Sculpturatus is one of the more active species, so wandering around the tank isn't necessarily a sign of stress or discomfort. That's far more normal for them than it is for some of the burrowing species.

If you see a behavior called "stilting," where it looks like he's standing high up on his tiptoes, that means he's too hot/too humid. And they're not always super intelligent about that.

My snake will actively move away from heat and toward the cooler end of her tank when she's hot, but scorpions are kinda dumb. They don't really do that.

So if you notice him stilting, assume he's too hot and humid, and fix it, because he may not know to move toward a cooler area. If he's not stilting, he's fine.

You can keep the ceramic heater if you want. I kept mine at 85 when my females were gravid, with the heat mat set at 100 for them to bask. And the girls were CONSTANTLY pressed up against the glass, holding their bellies against the heat mat.

Now that the babies are gone, I lowered the temp on the heater, so the entire tank is set at 76-ish. And I've got a small heat mat under the tank on the warm side, set to 82 (do NOT put a heat mat under the tank unless it's hooked up to a thermostat with a failsafe. Scorpions can and will cook themselves on an unregulated heat mat). Half of the mat is directly under their humid hide, half of it is outside, under one of their warm hides.

My main heatpad is still on the back of the tank, still set at 100.

But honestly, you don't have to do all that. They're everywhere here in Vegas, where I live. Right now it's 49 degrees outside, and can occasionally get below freezing at night. The wild ones are all hibernating now, but they survive freezing temperatures without issue.

In the summer, it's 110 in the day, and 95 at night.

They do just fine. And they multiply like rabbits. They're annoyingly hardy little things and can adapt to a wide range of temperature.

Humidity is the more pressing concern. It took the deaths of multiple poor little scorplings and multiple frustrating "what did I do wrong" conversations before I learned that babies need significantly higher humidity than adults.

I keep my humid hide around 40%, and I see my two scorplings hiding in the damp sphagnum moss more often than not. My smallest male is going to molt soon, and has suddenly been burrowing into the moss as well. They definitely appreciate the higher humidity, especially in the winter when my house's ambient humidity stays at 0%.

 

[EmperorKuzco]

ok, so the heat isn't an issue than as long as it cant cook itself, I have not noticed any stilting. I set up a "Humid Hide" as recommended earlier in this thread, but I don't know that it did any good, I may look into a better humid setup, sphagnum moss is a good idea. I am not sure if he is adult, I am really confused on how to measure a scorp, but from what I can gleam from size he should be, I fully believe him to be a 2i or 3i.

 

[JenVegas]

2i or 3i? Are you sure?

Because these are 3i...



This isn't a particularly big species. Full grown adults max out at 2 1/2 inches long.

It might just be the pictures, but Jafar looks like he's a little older. Where did you get him?

 

[EmperorKuzco]

I got him from a shop in Orem UT, Animal Ark. wow yeah those guys are really little. I thought they were a bit bigger than that, i knew they were a small species, but not THAT small. Let me see if i can get a pic of him next to a ruler.

 

[JenVegas]

Lol, yeah they're definitely not as physically impressive as like, Swammerdami or Imperator. I think that's part of the reason why they're not super popular as pets.

But honestly, even with that, they're by far my favorite species. And I can't figure out why they're not more popular.

They are the most venomous scorpion, and the only medically significant species in North America. But deaths from them are incredibly rare. You probably won't die if you're stung, you'll basically just hate your life for the next 3 days.

Which is great for those that gravitate toward the hotter species, but maybe don't want to take the risk of keeping, say, androctonus.

They're active, too. My other favorite species is the H. Arizonensis, but those are basically pet holes.

Which, I mean, I have a ball python, and a happy bp is a hidden bp, so I'm used to that, but I love glancing up at the tank and seeing one of the scorps just roaming around, exploring.

They don't burrow, so they don't need special substrate or soil. All they need is a vertical climbing space three times taller than they are long, because that's how they molt. Literally a $5 critter keeper with sand and a piece of cork bark is enough to allow a single scorpion to thrive (though I obviously don't recommend that for the animal's quality of life).

They have a couple of nifty traits that make them major pests in hotspots like Vegas and Phoenix because they're so active, they're immune to pretty much all pesticides, they're one of the only species of scorpion that can climb, and they can squeeze through cracks the width of a credit card, so it's basically impossible to keep them out of your house if they want in your house (and because they're so active and into exploring, they want to check out houses a lot).

We don't go to the bathroom at night without uv flashlights. You just don't mess around with these little jerks.

Safe behind glass, though, I love them. And they're one of the only species (if not the only species) that is truly, safely communal. Which is great, I love watching them interact with each other. They're very simple creatures, but even so, they've all got their own distinct personalities.

Just by the pictures, I'm guessing Jafar is a juvenile/subadult. He definitely doesn't look quite full grown yet, but he's old enough that you can tell his sex (2i and 3i is a little too early to tell).

I posted this picture in my progression thread, but it's a good size comparison between Tater, one of the 3i babies, and Benjamin, my smallest juvenile/subadult male. I'm thinking Jafar is probably around Benjamin's size.



And here's a comparison of Benjamin with my biggest female, Angry Girl (as she slurps a Dubia's guts. Like a lady).



Angry Girl is fully grown, at least a few years old (they live for 6 and reach sexual maturity around 1). Benjamin clearly still has some growing to do. And he's been hanging out in the damp moss lately, so he'll be molting soon.

I'm surprised the pet store didn't tell you how old Jafar is. I wonder where they got him. I sold most of my babies to pet stores, and told them the exact day they were born and the name of their mother, as well as the dates they molted to 2i and 3i (if applicable. If it was a local store here, I sold them at 2i. But didn't ship them to out of state stores until 3i).

But I looked up the weather in Orem, UT, and it says it's 74% humidity. Do you know your house's ambient humidity? Because if it's anything close to that, you don't need a humid hide, you might actually have the opposite problem (though CHEs are great for drying out a tank, so that might help).

You might want a humidity gauge in his tank. Mycosis is always a concern with desert species. From what I understand, Sculps aren't quite as vulnerable as some other desert species (like I said, annoyingly hardy little buggers), but they're not immune to it.

But yeah, if you're bored, try setting up a little obstacle course in Jafar's tank (carefully. Don't touch him, and make sure everything is stable and won't fall). Especially since he's male, and males are better climbers, you'll randomly look up and see him exploring all the branches and surfaces once the sun goes down (they're nocturnal, so you won't often see him during the day). They love roaming around, checking things out. They're a lot of fun to watch.

 

[EmperorKuzco]

I got these last night but I couldn’t get Arachnoboards to load, not sure if it was down for maintenance or something.

I do have humidity gauge in all my tanks, after the CHE drained his water bowl, it was like 70% humidity, but now is standing around 35-40%

They didn’t say how old he is, just that he wasn’t a full adult, and that he was not wild caught, they don’t deal in anything wild caught, which was 90% of why I got him (and an H. Arizonensis the same night, I had some questions about him too, I posted in a different thread to keep answers from getting confused between the 2) from them. I haven’t had any of my inverts molt in my care yet, so I wasn’t sure how much they grow between molts, so I assumed he was 2-3 because he is rather small, and they (especially males) I thought only molt 6-7 times.

Anyway, here are the pic, not sure if this can help narrow down what molt he is on, but they aren’t great. I was trying to get the best pic I could, but he was at a weird angle and I didn’t want to risk him rushing up the ruler to my fingers lol.

 

[JenVegas]

Lol yeah, always better to err on the side of caution. Getting stung would not be a fun time.

He's definitely a sub-adult. Maybe 2-ish molts to go until fully grown? It's hard to say, and the babies I have now are the first that I'm raising from birth, so I don't know specifics of how much they grow when they molt. I recommend getting a second opinion, all I can give is a rough ballpark estimate.

The 2 1/2 inch adult size includes the tail, so he's really not that small. They just don't get big.

I found this photo (not my photo) of an H. Arizonensis with two others, for size comparison. Sculpturatus isn't shown, but it's a little smaller than the one in the middle (they say that one maxes out at 3 inches).



And here's a pic of all 12 of my adults/subadults hanging out in two little cups of an egg carton. So you can get an idea for how big they are. Eight of them (including the three biggest females) are in a single cup that you'd store an egg in.

They're just not a big species.



Yeah, that humidity is kind of high. 70% is way too high. You don't need a humid hide.

He doesn't need 24/7 access to water either, especially if you live in a more humid climate. I'd take the dish out and only offer it once a week or so. Or if you'd prefer, give him a small bottle cap for water.

And I mean a small bottle cap. Here's Pineapple drinking out of a 20-ounce water bottle cap.



I have two of those in my tank that I fill once a week (and they always evaporate and are completely dry within 2 days, which is fine with me). I mist their humid hide every couple of days to keep it at 40%, but the rest of their tank reads 0%.

And they're spending more time in the humid hide now, since we have the heat running in our house and drying everything out, but even so, they only spend maybe 50% or so of their time in there, before seeking out something a little drier. In the summer/fall, the only ones I ever regularly saw in there were my youngest males and the females who were about to give birth or had just given birth.

Average humidity in Vegas in summer is 10-ish%. Average humidity in Phoenix and most of AZ in summer is 15-ish%.

Since he's still got some molting to do, 35% is probably okay, but you've just got to keep an eye out for possible mycosis (and someone more experienced than I am can weigh in on that. My experience is with making enclosures more humid, I don't know anything about making them more arid).