Are We Keeping Tarantulas Correctly?

[Potatatas]

Was in the middle of writing this and accidently hit post!
Bare with me as this may take a while to write....

EDIT: And I just realised as I'm writing this post my comparison was dumb and not sure where I was going with this thought.

I was going to compare how royal pythons used to be kept (eg, small RUB, one hide and water dish) to how we currently keep tarantulas, (eg, one hide, water dish, small enclosure).

My point being that royals were thought of as boring or lazy snakes because they didn't do anything but people are turning towards larger enclosures with lots of hiding spots and cover and are now seeing a much more active snake. Similarly, many T species are considered pet rocks and this could be due to how we keep them. I realised this was a bad comparison before I started writing and realised even more how this was a dumb comparison during writing...

 

[Vanisher]

No! Tarantulas do not thrive with large areas like snakes or mammals. In the wild they stay in their burrow and not venturing out more than some inches outside burtow, other than males in breeding seasons. I would say that it is more important with a deep tank with lots of sub than a large area wise! Pet rock has nothing to do with a karge terrarium or not! It is mearly due to the speicies. People often "humanise" tarantulas and compare them to mammals. They are spiders and have totalky diffrent needs!

 

[Garetyl]

Eh, I give my Ts above the recommended sized enclosures with plenty to hide under and explore. All of them have picked one spot they prefer and don't really explore much (besides my Grammastola). I still like having the larger enclosures, but it's more for my own benefit.

 

[Paul1126]

In the wild they stay in their burrow and not venturing out more than some inches outside burtow

Enclosures should not be too small, every T will go outside of their burrow every now and again, for example: my GBB will often venture out and rarely hides in the burrow.

 

[Vanisher]

Yes, i mean small compred to a snake enclosure! Sure one can have a larger than large enclosure, but that is just a waste of space cos tge spider will not use the whole surface. I have some Pterinochilus and Phormictopus. The longest away from the burrow mouth i have seen them ar 4 inches! I have a G porteri. For years it has stayed in the same area withhin the enclosure! I had many Haplopelmas in the past. They where in the burriw or i saw half of the spiders in the burrow mouth. The same story with nearly every spider i gave had. Some have been more active than others, and could use a larger than average terrarium

 

[krbshappy71]

Was in the middle of writing this and accidently hit post!
Bare with me as this may take a while to write....

EDIT: And I just realised as I'm writing this post my comparison was dumb and not sure where I was going with this thought.

I was going to compare how royal pythons used to be kept (eg, small RUB, one hide and water dish) to how we currently keep tarantulas, (eg, one hide, water dish, small enclosure).

My point being that royals were thought of as boring or lazy snakes because they didn't do anything but people are turning towards larger enclosures with lots of hiding spots and cover and are now seeing a much more active snake. Similarly, many T species are considered pet rocks and this could be due to how we keep them. I realised this was a bad comparison before I started writing and realised even more how this was a dumb comparison during writing...

I don't think it is a dumb comparison at all. I felt the same way when I received my first T's, I wanted to give them the world! It has only been through observation and failure that I learned that isn't what they want. Blair (G. porteri/rosea dunno) is ALWAYS under her hide, I even have a webcam on her that alerts me to movement in case she was a night wanderer I wanted to make myself feel better by seeing if she roamed at that time. Nope. She is a homebody like me, ha! It has been a few years now, she still doesn't roam, in fact I've debated dropping her town to a smaller tank to make more room. She has a hide, water dish, live plant and all them would fit in a smaller tank.

 

[EtienneN]

Also snakes have brains that function thousands of times more complex than a tarantula’s ganglion. They can get bored where spiders cannot. While you can give juveniles and adults roomy enclosures, Vanisher is right that the depth of substrate is much more important. In fact with too much surface area some tarantulas have trouble catching prey or the prey gets lost in the opposite corner of the cage. And even in bigger cages, the Ts only utilize a quarter to a third of the space.

 

[Minty]

I don’t see snakes and tarantulas as a valid comparison. Makes about as much sense as comparing bird keeping to dog keeping.

 

[Predacons5]

I wouldn't put a tarantula in a tiny space per se, but they really don't need a very large enclosure either. The wanderers will wander, but an enclosure with a surface area that has dimensions that are about 2 - 5 times the length of the tarantula (legs included in the measurement), is pretty good. I've had no problems with T's placed in containers close to 10x the size of the animal (you just have to drop their food items near where they are). It gives them an opportunity to wander if they want to and they can still find their prey just fine. They do pick out a spot they like to reside in, but some do occasionally wander (even the pet holes). You also have to consider the space you have. I could recommend that you place your tarantulas in a container that is 8x the size of the tarantula, but can you accommodate this?

The depth of the substrate is a different topic entirely. That depends on whether your tarantula likes to dig or not. Some of these guys dig pretty deep if you let them.

It's not to say hobbyists in the past didn't make mistakes, (because they most certainly did). One example that comes to mind is the GBB (Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens). From what I understand, this T used to be kept humid because people thought they came from a tropical rainforest. It turns out GBB's come from a semi-arid desert environment in the wild. The documentary is in German, but the scientist looking for the GBB speaks English.

Another one that is being debated on Arachnoboards is Megaphobema mesomelas. People keep saying they need to be kept cool temperature-wise. What the evidence presents is that it is not the case. In my opinion, the evidence is pointing to providing higher air circulation. You can test this out if you want.

Keep your room at 85 F and monitor it with a thermometer, but keep the air well circulated. It will not feel warm, however, the temperature is actually 85 F.

It's kinda like being by the beach. The winds are blowing really hard, so it feels really cold, but the temperature is actually 90 F.

 

[Demonclaws]

I guess this trend of thought is why people are obsessed with Ts being stressed or not.

 

[FrDoc]

Yes, we are. Mine have received rave reviews in Better Enclosures and Gardens.

 

[Potatatas]

Yeah as I said, I know it's a dumb comparison. I'd have not posted this if I hadn't accidentally done so while writing...
I get dumb questions or ideas and think they're brilliant until I think them over. I once thought I'd cured dyslexia by teaching dyslexic people brail...

But I do think you could put a tarantula in any size enclosure as long as it's setup right.

 

[PanzoN88]

In my case, I house my collection in enclosures that are just the bare minimum size wise. Can't really comment about snakes, as I am not raising any yet, I just know there is little to no comparison.

 

[Surfing Tigress]

I gotta say, unlike many here, I agree with the initial post...

I tend to house my Ts in a bit larger enclosures then necessarily recommended. And I hear people say all the time that their Ts are not active. I know it depends on species to some extent, but at night, almost every single night, most if not all of mine are always out. I mean some of them come out and explore as soon as the sun goes down and the room gets dark. As they get larger (I keep some of the largest species) they seem to actually enjoy having the room and getting out and stretching and will open up their legs and chill out on the glass; seemingly quite content. In the wild much of their behavior of not leaving their burrows is predator related. They venture, they get eaten; simple as that. In a safe enclosure with no predators to worry about I think this behavior changes somewhat; as with any species we have 'domesticated' (for lack of a better word) their behavior begins to change generation after generation as they are kept in predator free environments. And I agree with the initial post, I think as we 'domesticate' animals we begin to learn better and better ways to care for them as they change and adapt (as in your snake example, which I actually thought was apt and not a dumb comparison at all); However, we as keepers have to be willing to change our beliefs and practices as well along the way

 

[Potatatas]

In the wild much of their behavior of not leaving their burrows is predator related. They venture, they get eaten; simple as that. In a safe enclosure with no predators to worry about I think this behavior changes somewhat; as with any species we have 'domesticated' (for lack of a better word) their behavior begins to change generation after generation as they are kept in predator free environments.

This was the point at which I thought my comparison was dumb. Snakes in the wild are active and hunt whereas Ts lay in wait for prey to find them mostyl. But you made an interesting point about being safe from predators. Maybe as generations go by they may lose the fear of wandering? I think if we provide the opportunity for exploration and interacting more with the enclosure in safe ways then you could in theory dedicate a whole room to one tarantula if you liked. As long as we can observe healthy behaviours such as feeding and moulting well thenI think a bit of experimentation is good. Plus making cool enclosures is fun and interesting, well to me anyways.

Also my comparison was mainly looking at the attitude of keepers towards housing, eg they don't benefit from larger enclosures, their brains aren't developed enough to recognise an ugly enclosure compared to a natural enclosure. This is where we seems to be at right now with tarantulas. I'm not saying that tarantulas can recognise any of these things but I am just saying it is similar to how we viewed snakes a few years ago.

I feel I am rambling and not making much sense now

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

In the wild much of their behavior of not leaving their burrows is predator related. They venture, they get eaten; simple as that. In a safe enclosure with no predators to worry about I think this behavior changes somewhat; as with any species we have 'domesticated' (for lack of a better word) their behavior begins to change generation after generation as they are kept in predator free environments. And I agree with the initial post, I think as we 'domesticate' animals we begin to learn better and better ways to care for them as they change and adapt (as in your snake example, which I actually thought was apt and not a dumb comparison at all); However, we as keepers have to be willing to change our beliefs and practices as well along the way

Except it isn't that simple. Although predator avoidance is one reason for the reclusive nature of tarantulas, I wouldn't say it is the primary reason for all species. One major aspect of keeping close to home and hidden is to escape the elements. The climate controlled environment we keep them in is what changes their behavior in captivity from what one would see in nature. With no precipitation, no temperature extremes, constant access to food and water, etc. tarantulas don't need to stay hidden. Using American tarantulas as an example, in nature they are sealed up in a burrow for about half of the year during the cold months, come out when environmental conditions are favorable, then disappear again during extremes in weather conditions or when food becomes scarce. Sealing themselves up in a burrow protects them from dying of dehydration, starvation, or both. The behavior of the high strung species from both old and new worlds is interesting though. To your point, I think their high strung nature comes from being in competition with other predators and primarily from being in a hostile environment where they can easily become prey. The species of the genera Cyriopagopus, Hysterocrates, Ephebopus, and so on may very well be genetically programmed to build and live in a burrow in nature and captivity primarily due to predator avoidance. Same with the arboreal equivalents such as Stromatopelma, Poecilotheria, Psalmopeous, etc.

The question of if we are keeping tarantulas correctly is an interesting one. One would have to interpret what "correctly" means to answer it. If by correctly one means the tarantulas kept in captivity eat, drink, molt and grow, reproduce (if breeding) then yes, they are being kept correctly, well, generally speaking anyway. But if correctly means to provide an environment in which tarantulas are showing us the same behavior they would exhibit in nature, then the answer is no. It is a difficult question to answer when one considers just how adaptable the majority of the tarantulas species kept as pets are to a wide range of environmental conditions.

The experience I had keeping my first tarantula, a Grammostola rosea, back in the late 80s through the start of the 2000s is a testament to how a tarantula can adapt to living conditions people today would consider "outdated" or "wrong." My G. rosea lived in a 2 gallon glass tank with gravel and water provided by a sponge for almost 15 years (give or take) and it ate, molted, and grew. Even though the captive husbandry back then would have been considered "wrong" by today's standards, the thing lived for over 20 years in my care despite what people would think. It was eventually moved to a soil substrate and given a water dish, but the point is that back when it was kept on gravel and provided with a sponge, it was fine so therefore one couldn't say I was keeping it wrong.

 

[Potatatas]

The question of if we are keeping tarantulas correctly is an interesting one. One would have to interpret what "correctly" means to answer it.

Yeah maybe I termed that wrong. What about Are we keeping tarantulas the best way we can? Although that is also subjective. We could provide our Ts with a day/night and seasonal cycle of light and temps. We could create a misting system to simulate rain, take soil from their natural habitats for substrate, the list is endless. Depends on how we define good husbandry, eg long life = good husbandry or natural environment = good husbandry. In the wild Ts are killed off by predators, extreme temps and extreme rainfalls I assume. So maybe good husbandry is as close to natural as possible but without the dangers that come along with it. We could mimic natural temps and rainfall but dial it back so it isn't a risk.

The above is completely unrealistic of course. No one is going to go through that much effort for a T but it's interesting to think about. Plus I think we should be open to new ideas on husbandry and not write everything off straight away. I do see that here quite a bit, where someone will include some nice decorations in their enclosure and another user will comment on how unnecessary the decor is

 

[MBArachnids]

So my story went like this. I had more than a few T's when i started out. I then lost my work at the time due to the company closing down etc. I sold most of my T's, only keeping about 12. Things went on, work was scarce so we moved into a smaller place and so did my T's due to space.

80% of them were juvies and 20% adults. I can honestly tell you that in the 9 months give or take they were in smaller enclosures had NO impact on them from what i could observe. The T's that were active in the big enclosures remained active in the small enclosures and vise versa with the "lazy T's", they remained as inactive in the small enclosure.

I tend to build enclosures that are way bigger than what is required and I have several T's that I raised from sling to adult that had the WORLD of space but i have never seen them venture to the other side of the enclosure, they prefer to stay near their hide. This is only in MY experience. People here might say their T's wander around a lot, maybe i just have sluggish T's who knows. My point being they ate just as well in the small enclosures, they molted just as well, they were the same level of active so to me PERSONALLY it does not matter. But don't keep them in something they can barely turn in, be decent

 

[Predacons5]

...We could provide our Ts with a day/night and seasonal cycle of light and temps.

This is easy to achieve. Especially when you also keep Dart Frogs and orchids along with the tarantulas in the same room. With a good air conditioner unit where it is easy to control temperature, (which could cost you $1,000 - $2,500), it is a cinch.

The question then becomes is it necessary. I really don't know the answer to that question to be honest with you.

I see many of my T's out day and night (yes, even the "pet holes").

If you choose to provide a day/night cycle that is close to what is natural or if you decide to provide a temperature variation during the seasons (in the case of most tropical species, it wouldn't be terribly extreme), that's up to you. They're your tarantulas. It's your choice to do what you feel is optimal.

We could create a misting system to simulate rain...

Again, doable. Buy a Mistking rain maker or other brand of rainmaker, or you can make your own if you are a do-it-yourselfer.

...take soil from their natural habitats for substrate...

Nope, not possible for a majority of people in the hobby unless you are ready to go through the headache of getting permits. Shipping is also expensive. The other alternative is to approximate it as closely as possible.

...the list is endless. Depends on how we define good husbandry, eg long life = good husbandry or natural environment = good husbandry. In the wild Ts are killed off by predators, extreme temps and extreme rainfalls I assume. So maybe good husbandry is as close to natural as possible but without the dangers that come along with it. We could mimic natural temps and rainfall but dial it back so it isn't a risk.

In some cases you will have to mind the temperatures you keep your T's at. It is easy to do research as to what the temperatures are where the T's are found. The problem is, that's the ambient temperature, it isn't the temperature inside the holes they reside in. If you want to see them out more, you've gotta provide temperatures closer to what they would be to that of the holes they live in.

The above is completely unrealistic of course.

I just told you how to do it. There is only 1 item you mentioned that might be unrealistic due to the need of getting a soil sample permit.

No one is going to go through that much effort for a T but it's interesting to think about.

Like I said, if people have other hobbies that require them to do such things, it's not impossible.

Plus I think we should be open to new ideas on husbandry and not write everything off straight away.

Although there is a limit to being open to new ideas (it has to be reasonable, or better yet, there has to be evidence to support that new idea), I also hope that people are open to new ideas. Without them, you'd have people still thinking that GBB's or Megaphobema mesomelas were impossible to keep properly.

I do see that here quite a bit, where someone will include some nice decorations in their enclosure and another user will comment on how unnecessary the decor is

It may be unnecessary, but it's also that respective person's design for the enclosure. It's that person's work of art according to what they feel they can approximate as the tarantula's natural environment. If the tarantula isn't suffering or dying from it, it doesn't matter what other people whom you don't really know thinks your enclosures should look like.

I have some T's that like to wander a lot. I think it is the preference of the individual T and it depends on the species. They do not do it all the time, but some come out and play every-now-and-then. Like I said, I have T's that are in what some people's opinions would be extremely oversized enclosures, but I don't see a problem with the T's. The ones that want to come out, come out. The ones that stay put, stay put. If some of my T's are in enclosures that are 8x - 10x their size it is usually because of convenience for me. As I said before, I personally think, 5x the size of the tarantula is a nice balance of giving it space to move freely if it wants to and not wasting space so you can accommodate them in your living space (wherever that is).

I get what you mean with the snake comparison, some snakes are ambush predators - especially ones that belong to the family Viperidae (e.g.: Rhinoceros Vipers - Bitis nasicornis, Gaboon Vipers - Bitis gabonica). I used to keep a variety of snakes, not all of them are active hunters. Some are, some aren't. Many snakes do not really roam around a lot either. They occasionally move from place to place, but they have a place they like to call their home (you'll know because no matter how large the enclosure is, they'll always go back to those same locations time-and-time again).

 

[Potatatas]

SI can honestly tell you that in the 9 months give or take they were in smaller enclosures had NO impact on them from what i could observe. The T's that were active in the big enclosures remained active in the small enclosures and vise versa with the "lazy T's", they remained as inactive in the small enclosure.

It would be interesting to see happens to the active Ts when you put them in a larger enclosure. Pick a wanderer that likes to be a bulldozer, give it a huge space and watch it go!

Edit: I am now getting lots of ideas for experiments with large enclosures...