Are there any fat tail or thick tail scorpions that are suitable for beginner/intermediate hobbyists?

[Outpost31Survivor]

While interchangeable, I have myself found most people call Androctonus fat tails and Parabuthus thick tails. But yes, common names can indeed cause confusion.

They are usually never used interchangeable though. Most people know better hold to the distinction. But common names really have no practicality anyways.

 

[Ecoval22]

It is better like this to don't make confusions

Parabuthus transvaalicus (known as the Transvaalicus thick-tailed scorpion, South African thick tail, or giant deathstalker)

Parabuthus transvaalicus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Androctonus bicolor, the black fat-tailed scorpion

Androctonus bicolor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Androctonus crassicauda, the Arabian fat-tailed scorpion

Androctonus crassicauda - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

It is better like this to don't make confusions

Parabuthus transvaalicus (known as the Transvaalicus thick-tailed scorpion, South African thick tail, or giant deathstalker)

EDITED: for greater accuracy!

I have never seen Parabuthus transvaalicus labelled "Giant Deathstalker".

There was an incident in the late 80s or early 90s, when a supplier delivered a shipment of Leiurus quinquestriatus to a pet shop in England mislabelled as harmless Israeli Gold Scorpions on the invoice but fortunately the pet shop owner showed his new scorpions to a visiting active manager (buying insect food for his animals) of both the Animal Control Team and Animal Licensing Manager for Environmental Health in Local Government United Kingdom. He instantly recognized them as the dangerous Buthid and convinced the pet shop owner to turn over all of the Leiurus quinquestriatus. He had the scorpions identification confirmed by the British Museum of Natural History in London. A national alert went out and 300 specimens total were seized. After this incident exporters officially labelled them "Deathstalkers". And it has stuck ever since.

Arachnologists had a better common name that best suited their proper taxonomic characters, Five-keeled Gold Scorpion. "Deathstalker" is a common name not created by arachnologists themselves but by the exporters and hobbyists themselves in a pathetic attempt to hype up the species for its low LD50 and medical significant toxicity. But it all began at a pet store in England shipped Leiurus quinquestriatus mislabelled as harmless Israeli Gold Scorpions.

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

It is better like this to don't make confusions

Parabuthus transvaalicus (known as the Transvaalicus thick-tailed scorpion, South African thick tail, or giant deathstalker)

Parabuthus transvaalicus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Androctonus bicolor, the black fat-tailed scorpion

Androctonus bicolor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Androctonus crassicauda, the Arabian fat-tailed scorpion

Androctonus crassicauda - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think calling P. transvaalicus "Giant Deathstalkers" would be a mistake cause it could cause them to be mistaken for L. quinquestriatus. Think it's best to call Parabuthus "Thick-tails" and Androctonus "Fat-tails" to prevent confusion, though in all honesty it's probably better to just use scientific names.

EDITED: for greater accuracy!

I have never seen Parabuthus transvaalicus labelled "Giant Deathstalker".

There was an incident in the late 80s or early 90s, when a supplier delivered a shipment of Leiurus quinquestriatus to a pet shop in England labelled as harmless Israeli Gold Scorpions on the invoice but fortunately the pet shop owner showed his new scorpions to a visiting active manager (buying insect food for his animals) of both the Animal Control Team and Animal Licensing Manager for Environmental Health in Local Government United Kingdom. He instantly recognized them as the dangerous Buthid and convinced the pet shop owner to turn over all of the Leiurus quinquestriatus. He had the scorpions identification confirmed by the British Museum of Natural History in London. A national alert went out and 300 specimens total were seized. After this incident exporters officially labelled them "Deathstalkers". And it has stuck ever since.

Arachnologists had a better common name that best suited their proper taxonomic characters, Five-keeled Gold Scorpion. "Deathstalker" is a common name not created by arachnologists themselves but by the exporters and hobbyists themselves in a pathetic attempt to hype up the species for its low LD50 and medical significant toxicity. But it all began at a pet store in England shipped Leiurus quinquestriatus labelled as harmless Israeli Gold Scorpions.

Between Indian Red Scorpions (H. tamulus), Deathstalkers (L. quinquestriatus) & Fat-tailed Scorpions (genus Androctonus) which would you say is most venomous/most dangerous? I think Deathstalkers would probably be most venomous, very low LD50 value among scorpions, but most dangerous would probably go to the Indian Red Scorpion or Fat-tailed Scorpions. I do believe if I'm not mistaken they sting and kill more people in a year than Deathstalkers do. Also, there was some other thread by some guy just recently asking what the "Most venomous/dangerous scorpion" is and said he thinks it was the Indian Red Scorpion and I proceeded to say "Probably Indian Red Scorpion or Deathstalkers with Fat-tailed Scorpions also being up there" and then he kinda downplayed the danger level of the Deathstalkers a bit compared to the other 2 cause according to him the venom yield on the Deathstalkers isn't as high as with the Indian Red Scorpion or Fat-tailed Scorpions. Is that true?

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I think calling P. transvaalicus "Giant Deathstalkers" would be a mistake cause it could cause them to be mistaken for L. quinquestriatus. Think it's best to call Parabuthus "Thick-tails" and Androctonus "Fat-tails" to prevent confusion, though in all honesty it's probably better to just use scientific names.


Between Indian Red Scorpions (H. tamulus), Deathstalkers (L. quinquestriatus) & Fat-tailed Scorpions (genus Androctonus) which would you say is most venomous/most dangerous? I think Deathstalkers would probably be most venomous, very low LD50 value among scorpions, but most dangerous would probably go to the Indian Red Scorpion or Fat-tailed Scorpions. I do believe if I'm not mistaken they sting and kill more people in a year than Deathstalkers do. Also, there was some other thread by some guy just recently asking what the "Most venomous/dangerous scorpion" is and said he thinks it was the Indian Red Scorpion and I proceeded to say "Probably Indian Red Scorpion or Deathstalkers with Fat-tailed Scorpions also being up there" and then he kinda downplayed the danger level of the Deathstalkers a bit compared to the other 2 cause according to him the venom yield on the Deathstalkers isn't as high as with the Indian Red Scorpion or Fat-tailed Scorpions. Is that true?

An reknowned expert on Leiurus quinquestriatus whom extensively studied them in Sudan found they have a low venom yield per sting and rarely pose a mortal risk to adults unless they have pre-existing health conditions such as hypertension, respiratory issues, chronic illnesses such as diabetes, etc where Leiurus envenomations can pose a much higher risk due to respiratory and cardiovascular co-morbidity.



Now this is just one study and it hasn't covered all Leiurus species naturally as at the time this study was completed Leiurus was still monotypic. One species - quinquestriatus. There is a high rate of mild / moderate (non life threatening) Leiurus envenomations of healthy adults. The reason being medically significant scorpions rarely envenomate healthy adults with a lethal dose. Children are another matter entirely because that same dosage poses a significantly greater risk in their smaller bodies because the venom volume is actually greater. But make no mistake about it Leiurus is a dangerous scorpion.

Once again, according to ATTs, Leiurus drop for drop should be more lethal than Androctonus.

Leiurus abdullahyami .19 mg/kg
Leiurus quinquestriatus .23 mg/kg

vs

Androctonus liouvillei .29 mg/kg
Androctonus mauritanicus .31 mg/kg

Read every sentence carefully in the screenshot I provided.

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

An reknowned expert on Leiurus quinquestriatus whom extensively studied them in Sudan found they have a low venom yield per sting and rarely pose a mortal risk to adults unless they have pre-existing health conditions such as hypertension, respiratory issues, chronic illnesses such as diabetes, etc where Leiurus envenomations can pose a much higher risk due to respiratory and cardiovascular co-morbidity.

View attachment 436039

Now this is just one study and it hasn't covered all Leiurus species naturally as at the time this study was completed Leiurus was still monotypic. One species - quinquestriatus. There is a high rate of mild / moderate (non life threatening) Leiurus envenomations of healthy adults. The reason being medically significant scorpions rarely envenomate healthy adults with a lethal dose. Children are another matter entirely because that same dosage poses a significantly greater risk in their smaller bodies because the venom volume is actually greater. But make no mistake about it Leiurus is a dangerous scorpion.

Once again, according to ATTs, Leiurus drop for drop should be more lethal than Androctonus.

Leiurus abdullahyami .19 mg/kg
Leiurus quinquestriatus .23 mg/kg

vs

Androctonus liouvillei .29 mg/kg
Androctonus mauritanicus .31 mg/kg

Read every sentence carefully in the screenshot I provided.

Any idea what the LD50 for the C. sculpturatus (Arizona Bark Scorpion) is? I tried searching Google to find what it is but couldn't really find much of anything. What I do know though is that less than 1% of stings are fatal to adults. I originally said that would probably be the "hottest" scorpion I'd consider getting starting out in the hobby and I stand by that. I also couldn't find much on the LD50 for the H. tamulus (Indian Red Scorpion) but I reckon the LD50 is a fairly low mg/kg just like the Deathstalker and Fat-tailed Scorpions. Would also be interested in the LD50 value of the H. hottentotta (Alligator-back Scorpion) as I reckon it would be a good bit less than it's cousin the H. tamulus.

 

[Moakmeister]

I think the lesson here is that common names are stupid and no one should use them

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Any idea what the LD50 for the C. sculpturatus (Arizona Bark Scorpion) is? I tried searching Google to find what it is but couldn't really find much of anything. What I do know though is that less than 1% of stings are fatal to adults. I originally said that would probably be the "hottest" scorpion I'd consider getting starting out in the hobby and I stand by that. I also couldn't find much on the LD50 for the H. tamulus (Indian Red Scorpion) but I reckon the LD50 is a fairly low mg/kg just like the Deathstalker and Fat-tailed Scorpions. Would also be interested in the LD50 value of the H. hottentotta (Alligator-back Scorpion) as I reckon it would be a good bit less than it's cousin the H. tamulus.

C. sculpteratus 1.12-2.27 mg/kg

H. tamulus 2.50 mg/kg

Just shows how flawed ATTs can be. C. sculpteratus rarely pose a serious risk to healthy adults and are primarily dangerous to children. But H. tamulus definitely poses a higher risk to adults than C. sculpteratus. It exposes the flaw of substituting humans with lab mice (and interspecies susceptibility). And also not knowing what species are capable of delivering a lethal dosage to adults.

Diversity of Indian Red Scorpion Venom

Geographical variation in sting severity has been reported in India (Reddy, 2013; Suranse et al., 2019) (Figure 2) and is a likely consequence of variation in population genetic structure, which drives phenotypic differences in venom composition (Newton et al., 2007). Several populations of Indian red scorpions collected from eight locations in Maharashtra (Bhate plateau, Sangameshwar, Jejuri, Shindavane, Pashan, Alandi, Kalyan, and Jalna) exhibited moderate genetic variation, with regression analysis suggesting that the genetic distance of subspecies increases by 0.006% (95%CI: 0.003–0.010%) per Kilometre of geographical separation (Suranse et al., 2017). It has also been suggested that genetic structure correlates to climatic differences in precipitation, specifically high, moderate, and low rainfall areas (Suranse et al., 2017), associated with differences in venom phenotype. For example, significant variation in the expression of venom peptides was observed between Indian red scorpions collected from the Konkan region of Maharashtra and the semi arid Deccan plateau (Newton et al., 2007). In addition, anecdotal reports suggest that stings from Indian red scorpions of the Konkan region on the western side of the Western Ghats are more severe than stings from populations on the eastern side of the Western Ghats. These differences are likely due to variations in venom peptide composition between the two populations (Newton et al., 2007). While other factors may contribute to the pathophysiology of the sting, these have not been addressed in the literature (Bawaskar and Bawaskar, 1992; Kankonkar et al., 1998; Murthy and Zare, 1998; Newton et al., 2007). Intra-specific venom variation has also been demonstrated between Indian red scorpions from Western India (Ratnagiri, Chiplun, and Ahmednagar) and Southern India Chennai by sodium dodecyl polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis (SDS-PAGE) (Badhe et al., 2006). Mice injected with equal concentrations of Indian red scorpion venom obtained from the above geographical regions showed significant variation in their blood sodium levels (Badhe et al., 2007). While in-depth analyses of Indian red scorpion venoms from different areas of the Indian sub-continent are currently lacking, this data would help uncover the geographical impact on venom composition. Although venom variation has been shown to result in differences in sting severity and symptoms for scorpions from different regions of the world (Abroug et al., 2020), a detailed description of this topic is beyond the scope of the current review.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8505525/#!po=9.32836

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

I think the lesson here is that common names are stupid and no one should use them

I use them, but I usually add in the scientific name as well to remove any potential for confusion.

C. sculpteratus 1.12-2.27 mg/kg

H. tamulus 2.50 mg/kg

Just shows how flawed ATTs can be. C. sculpteratus rarely pose a serious risk to healthy adults and are primarily dangerous to children. But H. tamulus definitely poses a higher risk to adults than C. sculpteratus. It exposes the flaw of substituting humans with lab mice (and interspecies susceptibility). And also not knowing what species are capable of delivering a lethal dosage to adults.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8505525/#!po=9.32836

Yeah I'm not too surprised about the LD50 for the C. sculpturatus as it typically isn't a danger to adults (less than 1% mortality rate) but man the LD50 for the H. tamulus is way higher than I would've expected. I was expecting LD50 on that one to be more in line with the L. quinquestriatus and the Androctonus genus. I know the mortality rate for the Indian Red is supposedly in the range of 8-40%. That leads me to believe that either they a. - Inject a lot more venom than your average scorpion or b. The LD50 tests can often be flawed like you had said.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I use them, but I usually add in the scientific name as well to remove any potential for confusion.


Yeah I'm not too surprised about the LD50 for the C. sculpturatus as it typically isn't a danger to adults (less than 1% mortality rate) but man the LD50 for the H. tamulus is way higher than I would've expected. I was expecting LD50 on that one to be more in line with the L. quinquestriatus and the Androctonus genus. I know the mortality rate for the Indian Red is supposedly in the range of 8-40%. That leads me to believe that either they a. - Inject a lot more venom than your average scorpion or b. The LD50 tests can often be flawed like you had said.

LD50 is definitely flawed, labs use differents standards when conducting ATTs. There is not one universal standard by which all labs adhere to. There is intraspecific divergence of toxins in any given species being tested. Different lab animals themselves will have different reactions to the same toxins (one can be mild, another can be severe). Animals especially mice do not accurately represent humans (but only small mammals are used for ATTs purely out of ethical concerns). ATTs is only capable of yielding relative results per a lab per a population(s) of species of scorpion tested per a population of lab animals tested upon. But ATTs are fully incapable of yielding any absolute results. So many variables can prove ATTs to be a fallacious measurement of human toxicity.

We had an individual here recently that was going to become a "lab rat" himself for a baby H. tamulus envenomation. Okay, there is a high chance statistically speaking he may sustain a mild to moderate envenomation especially from a baby H. tamulus. But H. tamulus has proven itself fully capable of producing severe envenomations including even more rarely fatalities in adults but not near the same rate as with children. What inspired this irrational risk taking behavior? The shocking high ATTs LD50 findings for H. tamulus. No way Jose is that gonna fly with me.



Venoms of Buthidae by A. Shulov & G. Levy

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

LD50 is definitely flawed, labs use differents standards when conducting ATTs. There is not one universal standard by which all labs adhere to. There is intraspecific divergence of toxins in any given species being tested. Different lab animals themselves will have different reactions to the same toxins (one can be mild, another can be severe). Animals especially mice do not accurately represent humans (but only small mammals are used for ATTs purely out of ethical concerns). ATTs is only capable of yielding relative results per a lab per a population(s) of species of scorpion tested per a population of lab animals tested upon. But ATTs are fully incapable of yielding any absolute results. So many variables can prove ATTs to be a fallacious measurement of human toxicity.

We had an individual here recently that was going to become a "lab rat" himself for a baby H. tamulus envenomation. Okay, there is a high chance statistically speaking he may sustain a mild to moderate envenomation especially from a baby H. tamulus. But H. tamulus has proven itself fully capable of producing severe envenomations including even more rarely fatalities in adults but not near the same rate as with children. What inspired this irrational risk taking behavior? The shocking high ATTs LD50 findings for H. tamulus. No way Jose is that gonna fly with me.

View attachment 436089

Venoms of Buthidae by A. Shulov & G. Levy

I'm thinking if I ever a fat tail/thick tail scorpion it might be the Black Thick-tailed Scorpion (P. transvaalicus). Not *as* venomous as something like an A. australis or A. amoreuxi (which, according to Wikipedia, are 2 of the most commonly available scorpions in the pet trade along with the Emperor Scorpion) and I guess they get pretty big too. I looked up "largest scorpions" and found a top 10 list that ranked the P. transvaalicus #6. Still wanna work my way up, however. Desert Hairy (H. arizonensis) is gonna be my first, probably AFS (Heterometrus sp.) 2nd, then maybe a few other fairly harmless (relatively speaking) scorpions such as the Florida Bark Scorpion (C. gracilis) or Central American Bark Scorpion (C. margaritatus), then some scorps that are a little hotter like the Arizona Bark Scorpion (C. sculpturatus) & Alligator Back Scorpion (H. hottentotta) & then maybe I'll consider a fat tail or thick tail scorpion.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I'm thinking if I ever a fat tail/thick tail scorpion it might be the Black Thick-tailed Scorpion (P. transvaalicus). Not *as* venomous as something like an A. australis or A. amoreuxi (which, according to Wikipedia, are 2 of the most commonly available scorpions in the pet trade along with the Emperor Scorpion) and I guess they get pretty big too. I looked up "largest scorpions" and found a top 10 list that ranked the P. transvaalicus #6. Still wanna work my way up, however. Desert Hairy (H. arizonensis) is gonna be my first, probably AFS (Heterometrus sp.) 2nd, then maybe a few other fairly harmless (relatively speaking) scorpions such as the Florida Bark Scorpion (C. gracilis) or Central American Bark Scorpion (C. margaritatus), then some scorps that are a little hotter like the Arizona Bark Scorpion (C. sculpturatus) & Alligator Back Scorpion (H. hottentotta) & then maybe I'll consider a fat tail or thick tail scorpion.

Sounds like a great plan break yourself in with species that can't potentially land you in the hospital. As an alternative for P. transvaalicus, I would nominate Parabuthus villosus (the Oranje morph is beautiful and the larger black morph is the largest of all buthids). Another cool fact about P. villosus, is it is a diurnal forager it actively hunts during daylight hours. And it is not as venomous P. transvaalicus.

 

[Sizzlipede]

The annual number of scorpion stings world wide is 1.2 million, leading to 3250 deaths (a 0.27% mortality rate). While that's a pretty low mortality rate overall that's certainly nothing to scoff at and, in fact, for every person killed by a venomous snake there's 10 that are killed by a venomous scorpion.

Venomous snakes kill approximately 100,000 people per year.

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

Venomous snakes kill approximately 100,000 people per year.

What this site is saying must not be accurate then.

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

Sounds like a great plan break yourself in with species that can't potentially land you in the hospital. As an alternative for P. transvaalicus, I would nominate Parabuthus villosus (the Oranje morph is beautiful and the larger black morph is the largest of all buthids). Another cool fact about P. villosus, is it is a diurnal forager it actively hunts during daylight hours. And it is not as venomous P. transvaalicus.

P. villosus is not quite as venomous as P. transvaalicus? They have both species in stock, along with lots of other really cool scorpions both "hot" and fairly harmless. While I ain't getting one rn, I'll definitely keep all this in mind.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

P. villosus is not quite as venomous as P. transvaalicus? They have both species in stock , along with lots of other really cool scorpions both "hot" and fairly harmless. While I ain't getting one rn, I'll definitely keep all this in mind.

I could never find anything on P. villosus whether responsible for severe life threatening envenomations or human fatalities. It could be its natural range sees smaller human encounters due to remoteness, it could be the three countries villosus inhabits have never written any significant medical case reports or epidemiological surveys on scorpionism involving P. villosus, it could be serious envenomations and human fatalities are under-reported and culprit is never positively identified plus traditional medicines may be first sought over hospital referrals etc. I imagine this species is medically significant being the largest Buthidae in the world it is safer to assume the worst than assume the best. The black morph is a huge scorpion. But I regard P. granulatus, P. transvaalicus, and P. maximus #1, #2, #3 most dangerous scorpions in the whole southern African region nonetheless.

EDIT: South Africa only reports P. granulatus and P. transvaalicus causing severe envenomations and human fatalities. Namibia and Angola offers scarce information on P. villosus and silent on any verifiable medical significance.

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

I could never find anything on P. villosus whether responsible for severe life threatening envenomations or human fatalities. It could be its natural range sees smaller human encounters due to remoteness, it could be the three countries villosus inhabits have never written any significant medical case reports or epidemiological surveys on scorpionism involving P. villosus, it could be serious envenomations and human fatalities are under-reported and culprit is never positively identified plus traditional medicines may be first sought over hospital referrals etc. I imagine this species is medically significant being the largest Buthidae in the world it is safer to assume the worst than assume the best. The black morph is a huge scorpion. But I regard P. granulatus, P. transvaalicus, and P. maximus #1, #2, #3 most dangerous scorpions in the whole southern African region nonetheless.

I should add that on the site that I'm now planning on buying the H. arizonensis & P. spinigerus from the P. transvaalicus they have includes the warning "HOT" - Not for beginners." Same with the L. quinquestriatus they have in stock and all 3 Androctonus they have in stock (australis/bicolor/crassicauda). They didn't include that warning for the P. villosus, however. I'd take that with a grain of salt though, as it is still potentially dangerous as a Parabuthus.

Maybe I'll go with a P. villosus as my 4th scorpion just as you went for an A. australis for your 4th scorpion. H. arizonensis & P. spinigerus will be my first ones, after that I'll probably go for either a Heterometrus sp. AFS or Florida/Central American Bark Scorpion (C. gracilis/C. margaritatus. One of the 2.) and then maybe go for a P. villosus after that. I wanna keep the other scorpions I get for at least a good solid year before doing so though.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I should add that on the site that I'm now planning on buying the H. arizonensis & P. spinigerus from instead of Pinchers & Pokies the P. transvaalicus they have includes the warning "HOT" - Not for beginners." Same with the L. quinquestriatus they have in stock and all 3 Androctonus they have in stock (australis/bicolor/crassicauda). They didn't include that warning for the P. villosus, however. I'd take that with a grain of salt though, as it is still potentially dangerous as a Parabuthus.

Naturally save for perhaps children, the old and infirm, and those suffering compromised nervous systems (a good rule thumb to always make an exception for these groups in regards to Buthidae genera that contain medically significant species), of course maybe P. villosus can only produce mild envenomations in fit, healthy adults. But it is also the largest Buthid in whole world.

 

[ScorpionEvo687]

I'm thinking if I ever a fat tail/thick tail scorpion it might be the Black Thick-tailed Scorpion (P. transvaalicus). Not *as* venomous as something like an A. australis or A. amoreuxi (which, according to Wikipedia, are 2 of the most commonly available scorpions in the pet trade along with the Emperor Scorpion) and I guess they get pretty big too. I looked up "largest scorpions" and found a top 10 list that ranked the P. transvaalicus #6. Still wanna work my way up, however. Desert Hairy (H. arizonensis) is gonna be my first, probably AFS (Heterometrus sp.) 2nd, then maybe a few other fairly harmless (relatively speaking) scorpions such as the Florida Bark Scorpion (C. gracilis) or Central American Bark Scorpion (C. margaritatus), then some scorps that are a little hotter like the Arizona Bark Scorpion (C. sculpturatus) & Alligator Back Scorpion (H. hottentotta) & then maybe I'll consider a fat tail or thick tail scorpion.

Actually, more and more I think on what inverts I most want, I think after getting an H. arizonensis (Arizona Desert Hairy Scorpion) & P. spinigerus (Devil Scorpion) I might go for a GBB (Want at least one tarantula, and they're smaller than Genics and LPs which I'm also considering so would take up less space. Also have gorgeous coloration.) and then after that go for an S. mesaensis (Arizona Dune Scorpion) & C. sculpturatus (Arizona Bark Scorpion). I think collecting a bunch of the desert scorpions from the American Southwest would be super cool. I may or may not get a P. villosus (Black Hairy Thicktail Scorpion) or P. transvaalicus (Transvaal Thicktail Scorpion) if/when I feel I'm ready. Decisions, decisions... Lol

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Actually, more and more I think on what inverts I most want, I think after getting an H. arizonensis (Arizona Desert Hairy Scorpion) & P. spinigerus (Devil Scorpion) I might go for a GBB (Want at least one tarantula, and they're smaller than Genics and LPs which I'm also considering so would take up less space. Also have gorgeous coloration.) and then after that go for an S. mesaensis (Arizona Dune Scorpion) & C. sculpturatus (Arizona Bark Scorpion). I think collecting a bunch of the desert scorpions from the American Southwest would be super cool. I may or may not get a P. villosus (Black Hairy Thicktail Scorpion) or P. transvaalicus (Transvaal Thicktail Scorpion) if/when I feel I'm ready. Decisions, decisions... Lol

You might want check him out for adult Hadrurus > https://arachnoboards.com/classifieds/the-big-list-jan-2023-new-year-sale.1898/