Are tarantulas alergic to cedar??

[samsbugs]

100 year old chest, 30 T's 3 days? That's enough for me to say keep it away from your T's. They are also far more fragile when it comes to toxins than most living things.

 

[crpy]

100 year old chest, 30 T's 3 days? That's enough for me to say keep it away from your T's. They are also far more fragile when it comes to toxins than most living things.

My Grandma had a hundred year old chest, no "T" would get near it though;P

 

[Snakeguybuffalo]

I'm on Ryan's side in this one. I actually have had a cedar chest in my critter room for a little over a year, and it's quite fragrant smelling. I keep something like 16 T's, 7 scorps, 12 geckos, a couple beardies, a diamondback terrapin, 14 snakes, and a couple dart frogs... and out of all of those animals, I've lost 2 in the last 6 months and 0 the 6 months before that. Those two losses were a leo gecko that dehydrated because I was out of town for a while and my deadbeat roommate didn't keep up on the water, and the other was a MM T. If the smell of cedar was enough to kill, those dart frogs would've been the first to go, but they are healthier now than they were when I put them in that room.

So Talkenlate, I'm with you on this one

 

[samsbugs]

Give it time, it won't happen now it takes long term exposure when not in direct contact. It's natures best pest repelant, and NATURALLY THINGS LIVE IN IT (BIOLOGY) as far as others that live in "toxic" subsancas, that's a natural immunity. Kind of like king snakes being immune to rattlesnake venom, they are specilized for that. Carpenter bees live in pine, and probably 1000's of othe examples, like roaches, pesticides are changed constantly and yet they still thrive.

Let me ask you this...
Is it worth risking your "pet" by keeping it in and arround "toxic" matter?
I think NOT!

 

[Le Wasp]

Plicatic acid which is the poison in cedar and other trees requires direct contact to affect something. There are plenty of articles you can read about studies done one rats and mice, even studies on humans that were in the logging business. It does have repelling properties, but nothing even close to strong enough that it kills things that are sitting in the same room.

Here is one of the many articles you can find online on the topic.
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/Courses/anphys/1999/Cook/Text.htm

This study investigates the compounds that are irritant to mammals, not the ones that are toxic to arthropods. Cedar produces its compounds as a defense against insects that would otherwise feed on it. That's why cedar is used to keep clothes moths away from wool clothing - it's like kryptonite to insects. The compounds that affect arthropods are quite volatile, meaning they will disperse through air. If a piece of cedar has been aged in a warm place, it might lose its effectiveness as a repellent.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I had ceader in the room, a 100 year old chest, I lost 30 T's in 3 days! Just from it being in the room

Now you are talking out the other side of your mouth. Which one is it? In the quote above you blame the cedar chest for killing 30 Ts in three days, but below you reply to Snakeguybuffalo and tell him that it won't kill them in 6 months it takes a long time for it to happen. Your time line is starting to confuse me.

Give it time, it won't happen now it takes long term exposure when not in direct contact.

 

[Talkenlate04]

This study investigates the compounds that are irritant to mammals, not the ones that are toxic to arthropods. Cedar produces its compounds as a defense against insects that would otherwise feed on it. That's why cedar is used to keep clothes moths away from wool clothing - it's like kryptonite to insects. The compounds that affect arthropods are quite volatile, meaning they will disperse through air. If a piece of cedar has been aged in a warm place, it might lose its effectiveness as a repellent.

Sorry man but a bug flying through the air does not run into a invisible force field of poison death from the tree and then goes around it because it knows its a "bad tree". That is not how it works. A bug lands on the tree and just from briefly touching the bark can tell it does not want to be there because of the acid, and it flies away instead of boring into the tree and laying eggs or causing other damages. It repells insects, it does not kill them as they fly through the air.
And the compound is Plicatic acid, there is a secondary acid present as well in some trees but it also requires contact from dust, resin, or direct contact such as sleeping on a bed of cedar shavings.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plicatic_acid

 

[samsbugs]

I did not say it killed 30 T's the first 3 days, that was the only thing that changed in my room, and it was all the T's close to the chest after 6 to 8 months.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I did not say it killed 30 T's the first 3 days, that was the only thing that changed in my room, and it was all the T's close to the chest after 6 to 8 months.

Well considering the cedar chest was not giving off any poison gases that would have caused a mass death like that, its pretty hard to be convinced that was the cause, even if that was the only thing that changed in your T room.
But that is only my opinion.

 

[samsbugs]

If it was something else, perhaps it would have been a little more sparatic? Not just the T's within 5 or 6 feet of it. But I guess we can do a study on this, take your collection, and anyone else that thinks it's not dangerous to T's and add a 50 pound ceader chest, shavings or a stump on 1 side of your room, get back to me in 6 to 8 months and let me know the results. If your so convinced that it's not possible for ceader to do this, than this should present no problem for you.
Yes I am aware that this was not a scientific study I did, but it's the only thing I found that could even be related. No mold no flies, not to dry not to wet.
Is it possible something else was wrong, yes, but I doubt it.

 

[Le Wasp]

Sorry man but a bug flying through the air does not run into a invisible force field of poison death from the tree and then goes around it because it knows its a "bad tree". That is not how it works. A bug lands on the tree and just from briefly touching the bark can tell it does not want to be there because of the acid, and it flies away instead of boring into the tree and laying eggs or causing other damages. It repells insects, it does not kill them as they fly through the air.
And the compound is Plicatic acid, there is a secondary acid present as well in some trees but it also requires contact from dust, resin, or direct contact such as sleeping on a bed of cedar shavings.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plicatic_acid

Cedar trees are surrounded by bark, and all the cells containing the compounds are intact. A recently felled tree exposes damaged tissues, pouring out all their compounds into the air and should have a clearing free from insects.

Also: yes, it's repellent. Insects flying around will avoid staying around a cut tree - likely because it would be lethal if they did stay. It probably acts as a repellent because the insects recognize its danger. Even if it isn't dangerous, but only "tricking" the insect into thinking so, imagine the stress on an insect if it were caged next to those compounds. A tarantula housed near those compounds would be under a lot of stress to get away - and stressed tarantulas are more likely to become dead tarantulas after not too long.

Also: there are a lot of compounds beyond plicatic acid. Again, plicatic acid is of interest mainly because it's what effects mammals. Cedar acts on a wide range of arthropods. Some of its more lethal compounds are only useful in keeping boring insects out of its wood, while others are further acting. Here's a paper investigating the repellency of 14 compounds from cedar on ticks: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17017233

 

[Strix]

I have to agree with Talkenlate on this one.


If i remember correctly you said you were fairly new to the hobby when they all died. It could have been something that is trivial that you don't even think about as potentially harmful. (ie: spraying cologne, hairspray, ant killer, flea and tick killers, etc)

To stay on topic... I would remove the cedar unless you want to risk losing a T.

 

[samsbugs]

Fairly new, 2 years in, and I don't use pesticides, hair spray or cologne and at that time I was single and had a girl frend that would not come over because of the T's.

 

[Strix]

Ah, I was just wondering because I'm fairly new to the hobby and almost did a few of the things i listed but i ended up catching myself.

 

[Lorgakor]

There is nothing wrong with using aged cedar. Or even using cedar mulch as substrate in your cages. I know of quite a few people that use cedar mulch, even dealers.

My basement is covered with cedar, the walls are made of cedar planks! This is where my tarantulas live, in my basement. They are fine. If you open up the wall, you will find many, many different spiders living in there, all perfectly fine.

Fresh cedar may be toxic to your inverts, but once it is cut and dried/processed, it is fine. IMO.

Edited to add, I used to have cedar hedging in my front yard. Guess what lived all over the hedges? Spiders!

 

[samsbugs]

I know I don't have a lot of posts, and some of us may be under the impression that it means "we" are new, I'm only new to arachnoboards, and don't have unlimited time to sit hear and post all day. I have been colecting and breeding for quite some time and have expirienced many problems and successes. Some of us with less than 20 posts have been doing this for 30 years or more, and because thier posts are minamal the general opinion is "what do they know" and others with lots of posts will reply "but what do I know". I guess the best way to say this is listen to everyone when thier is a question to answer, use your best judgement, don't take unnecesarry risks with your hobby, before putting them in a potentially bad place ALWAYS CONSIDER YOUR T'S BEFORE ALL ELSE. If it's questionable to any extent, do you risk it?

 

[Talkenlate04]

Pretty much everyone knows that post count has nothing to do with what you know or don't know. I have a zillion posts because I have a boring job, not because I know it all. I am at work right now actually.

But I have been keeping Ts a while, and I have used cedar in various forms over the years and never had a problem. That I guess is why I find it hard to believe that the cedar chest was responsible for the deaths of your Ts.

One more example. Up here in Oregon I go into the woods all the time and take mosses off cedar and pine trees all the time for my tank setups and I have never had a problem using it. There is all sorts of bark and stuff from the tree on the moss and I put it straight into my tanks with no trouble at all. I have also taken limbs of cedar and pine that had fallen and were covered in moss and put them directly into my setups and never had a problem.

 

[samsbugs]

That was not an attack against you talkenlate04, or anyone else. Just a fact and glad you agree with it. I've been keeping T's for a long time, also I was in the USMC, I got out in June 23, 1998.

 

[Talkenlate04]

also I was in the USMC, I got out in June 23, 1998.

Cool man. I did 4 years active duty and my 4 years active reserves time just ended so I am done as well. Oddly enough I miss it.

 

[samsbugs]

Some parts but not all.